I have made many additions to my previous post regarding mva and ghosting (I was trying to keep it all in one post). I would be interested to read any comments you all might have. I am particularly interested in what new information Jim may be able to provide us in response to my questions. Feel free to scroll up and check out my now long ass post. I welcome all criticisms, opinions, and information that anyone feels like offering.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/13/02 11:32 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
LOL that has to be one of the funniest things I've read on these forums
Yea when I ordered mine I got the run around a couple times "Yea the monitor will be in this thursday" then thursday I was told "yea sorry it didn't come in, you'll have to wait till tuesday" and it was post poned several times until about 3 weeks after my order was placed they finally shipped it to me. If you ordered it with the education discount, call them up and upgrade your shipping to next day air (heck its free for you why not)grrr, i jsut called compaq, and they said the screen is in a back order, have to call back tomorrow to get more info about when i can get my screen
Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the greatest thing we ever did -Homer
MVA technology was invented by Fujitsu, Fujitsu makes all MVA panels to my knowledge. Hitachi for example invented IPS technology. Fujitsu, like Hitachi, Sharp, etc. sell finished LCD panels typically with the backlights to the monitor manufacturers, who in turn add the video interface, power supply / inverter, plastics and sell the finished unit.
Some manufactures quote typical, this is simply a conservative marketing group who want to avoid and possible issues. Pixel response time varies on all LCDs, ambient temperature being the most common variable.
I was trying to make a point about ghosting, and yes panels with slow pixel response times 50MS+ sometimes ghost even when moving the mouse around the screen. My point is that there are many variables in everyone's system. Rarely if ever is a problem caused by a single component. In most cases it is caused by a combination of components.
The panel manufactures measure response time, without any of the external drive circuitry added by the monitor manufactures, again this is a big variable that must be considered. This is why I have such a difficult time with people finger pointing at a technology, it may not be the LCD panel issue at all.
Bottom line, if you are concerned about ghosting, buy a CRT monitor.
Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / MOnitorsdirect.com
Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
Some manufactures quote typical, this is simply a conservative marketing group who want to avoid and possible issues. Pixel response time varies on all LCDs, ambient temperature being the most common variable.
I was trying to make a point about ghosting, and yes panels with slow pixel response times 50MS+ sometimes ghost even when moving the mouse around the screen. My point is that there are many variables in everyone's system. Rarely if ever is a problem caused by a single component. In most cases it is caused by a combination of components.
The panel manufactures measure response time, without any of the external drive circuitry added by the monitor manufactures, again this is a big variable that must be considered. This is why I have such a difficult time with people finger pointing at a technology, it may not be the LCD panel issue at all.
Bottom line, if you are concerned about ghosting, buy a CRT monitor.
Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / MOnitorsdirect.com
Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
I second that last statement!
I was actually trying to stated the same thing but in a much more "nasty/forceful" way!
I still think for general all purpose use, the 1yr old Apple 22in lcd is still the most beautiful panel I have the pleasure to look at! slow response time and all
I was actually trying to stated the same thing but in a much more "nasty/forceful" way!
I still think for general all purpose use, the 1yr old Apple 22in lcd is still the most beautiful panel I have the pleasure to look at! slow response time and all
Well, I supposed I fit into that "stupid" category described here, because I use my TFT7020 for FPS gaming, and I find it to be almost as accurate as my Samsung SyncMaster 955DF. I play Everquest, Tread Marks, Quake Arena, basically a lot of FPS games, and I couldn't be happier with the LCD. I don't get any ghosting that some of you claim is inevitable. I was playing Nascar Racing last night on it, and it was as clear as any CRT I've seen.
Now, I'm not saying that it's BETTER quality than an excellant CRT. I'm saying that it's great at representing colors, refresh rates, and imaging, and is more than good enough to be someone's only monitor even if they will mostly be playing graphically intensive games with it. I was very concerned about this purchase, and I can't say enough how happy I've been with this LCD.
I have:
Asus A7V266-E
Athlon 1900+
512 meg DDR DRAM PC2100 (running at 7ns)
Western Digital Caviar WD1200JB (120 gigs; 8 meg buffer)
Gainward Geforce3 with DVI connector
Obviously, I have the TFT7020 connected to the DVI connection. I can't compare it to an ATI card because I don't have one, but the graphic quality in my opinion is excellant.
Ron
Now, I'm not saying that it's BETTER quality than an excellant CRT. I'm saying that it's great at representing colors, refresh rates, and imaging, and is more than good enough to be someone's only monitor even if they will mostly be playing graphically intensive games with it. I was very concerned about this purchase, and I can't say enough how happy I've been with this LCD.
I have:
Asus A7V266-E
Athlon 1900+
512 meg DDR DRAM PC2100 (running at 7ns)
Western Digital Caviar WD1200JB (120 gigs; 8 meg buffer)
Gainward Geforce3 with DVI connector
Obviously, I have the TFT7020 connected to the DVI connection. I can't compare it to an ATI card because I don't have one, but the graphic quality in my opinion is excellant.
Ron
NO you are not in the stupid category, you are in the same category we are all in. That being everyone’s perception of ghosting, colors, quality are all different, some see things others do not or don’t care about. Everyone eyes and tolerance for imperfections is different.
Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / MOnitorsdirect.com
Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / MOnitorsdirect.com
Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
I just read every single post here that contains the word TFT7020 (thank goodness for the search funtion)!! Amazingly, the only negative comment I could find was from Flamethrower when he had his defective backlight. Considering that many many people have purchased and commented on the TFT7020 this is quite impressive. However, part of Flamethrower's comment worried me and I was not sure if what he was describing was due to his faulty backlight or because of the viewing angles. Below I have pasted his post:
flamethrower205
(Ancient Poster)
01/13/02 02:48 PM
I'm very annoyed
"Ok, I switched back to my 5 year old 15" Sony CRT cause the tft7020 I have is simply pissing me off. It's made my eyes hurt more than usual, and I now have a horrible headache. Why the hell do people make the brightness on LCD's so high....I don't want to have bright spots (you know, the same wierd things that appear in front of your vision for a little bit after staring at the sun or at a lamp) when I turn away from my LCD! Also, the top of the screen is unbelievably saturated, do that things look totally different. And when I turn my head 1 degree, or even elevate if 1 cm, the image looks totally different. WTF! I hope this headache and all the probs mentioned above are simply as a result of the messed up backlight mine came with...and teh replacement I'm getting won't pull the same shiit. Anyone w/ a tft7020 please comment....I am debating whether or not to return it."
Flame, were all of these problems solved when you received your replacement unit? How long did it take them to send you a new one? I am particularly interested in your comments about moving your head slightly and having the image look different. This sounds exactly like the result of a poor viewing angle just like I noticed on the rad-5. Is your new TFT7020 the same way? If you look at it straight on, is it a perfectly even level of brightness/color saturation from top to bottom and side to side? The viewing angles of 150° and 140° are the only thing making me think twice about purchasing the TFT7020. If I return the pv150 (160°/160°) and the tft7020 has considerably worse viewing angles in practice, I will be very angry with myself. I do not care about viewing from extreme angles, but I would like to be able to shift position in my chair a little and not have the top of the screen turn dark or the bottom look washed out. Who sits still for hours on end? Not me! That is how the rad-5 was (140°/115°) and it really annoyed me.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/14/02 05:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
flamethrower205
(Ancient Poster)
01/13/02 02:48 PM
I'm very annoyed
"Ok, I switched back to my 5 year old 15" Sony CRT cause the tft7020 I have is simply pissing me off. It's made my eyes hurt more than usual, and I now have a horrible headache. Why the hell do people make the brightness on LCD's so high....I don't want to have bright spots (you know, the same wierd things that appear in front of your vision for a little bit after staring at the sun or at a lamp) when I turn away from my LCD! Also, the top of the screen is unbelievably saturated, do that things look totally different. And when I turn my head 1 degree, or even elevate if 1 cm, the image looks totally different. WTF! I hope this headache and all the probs mentioned above are simply as a result of the messed up backlight mine came with...and teh replacement I'm getting won't pull the same shiit. Anyone w/ a tft7020 please comment....I am debating whether or not to return it."
Flame, were all of these problems solved when you received your replacement unit? How long did it take them to send you a new one? I am particularly interested in your comments about moving your head slightly and having the image look different. This sounds exactly like the result of a poor viewing angle just like I noticed on the rad-5. Is your new TFT7020 the same way? If you look at it straight on, is it a perfectly even level of brightness/color saturation from top to bottom and side to side? The viewing angles of 150° and 140° are the only thing making me think twice about purchasing the TFT7020. If I return the pv150 (160°/160°) and the tft7020 has considerably worse viewing angles in practice, I will be very angry with myself. I do not care about viewing from extreme angles, but I would like to be able to shift position in my chair a little and not have the top of the screen turn dark or the bottom look washed out. Who sits still for hours on end? Not me! That is how the rad-5 was (140°/115°) and it really annoyed me.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/14/02 05:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
flamethrower205
Illustrious
- Jun 26, 2001
- 13,105
- 0
- 40,780
Oh, my, I forgot to post the difference between the broken and working unit. First off, lighting is MUCH more pleasant, and yesterday I spent quite a bit of time in fron of it just making a powerpoint presentation. My eyes didn't even feel it! No headaches or anything...that was caused by the flickering and extra light that was shot out. The viewing angle improved considerably too. My parenst were looking at the presentation last night (hey, have to have an audience when I practice), and they said it looked terrific, and that the picture looked the same from a few different position (ie, viewing angle wasn't an issue). It also becomes less of an issue the farther u r away. The working one also seems to scale resolutions a lot better. I am certainly very satisfied, but a little tip is to turn down the contrast to about 70 when just typing, so it's a little easier on the eyes, and then if u want game, obviously turn it to 100 if u want (and change brightness as well to ur liking).
Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
), and they said it looked terrific, and that the picture looked the same from a few different position (ie, viewing angle wasn't an issue). It also becomes less of an issue the farther u r away. The working one also seems to scale resolutions a lot better. I am certainly very satisfied, but a little tip is to turn down the contrast to about 70 when just typing, so it's a little easier on the eyes, and then if u want game, obviously turn it to 100 if u want (and change brightness as well to ur liking).Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
GoSharks, I understand that different people will have a different tolerance for what they perceive as ghosting/blurring and that can indeed influence their opinion. However, the sheer number of people from this community that have purchased the TFT7020 would surely bring to light at least one user complaining about ghosting if it were anywhere near as bad as the planar pv150. Actually, one user did say there was slight ghosting on the TFT7020 when playing half-life at over 100fps @1024x768. Although, he later mentioned that it was almost nonexistant after the monitor had a chance to warm up.
Thanks for the info about mva manufacturing and response time measurements. I did not know that panels were tested for response time before they are assembled into finished units. This certainly sheds some light on the subject. Also, along with the aforementioned reasons (in my previous post), this new fact reinforces my opinion that reported response times are a poor indication of how the final unit will perform.
The information that fujitsu does indeed manufacture all mva panels is also very enlightening. I completely understand your statement about how mva technology is a viewing angle tech and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on response times. HOWEVER, if fujitsu is the only manufacturer of mva, it is possible that their panel inherently performs much worse than for instance the panel used in the tft7020 in terms of ghosting. This has certainly not been proven by any means. There would have to be a comparison of every LCD that uses an mva panel to determine whether the considerable ghosting being reported on the viewsonic and planar mva units is a result of poor electronics used in conjunction with the fujitsu panel or the fujitsu panel itself.
I believe that the volume of reports of serious afterglow/ghosting/blurring (whatever you want to call it) on the planar and viewsonic mva units can be attributed to those units and not simply different levels of tolerance or external factors. Now, if I purchase the tft7020 and the ghosting is just as bad as the pv150, I will recant that opinion in a heart beat. I would also lose all faith in the value of users evaluations found on message boards such as these. Currently, I put more faith in 20 users that share the same opinion of an LCD than 1 professional reviewer such as PCworld. Yes, I know they use a panel of judges but they still seem to come out with shoddy reviews. They seem to give MUCH more weight to price than anything else such as image quality in their ratings of monitors.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/14/02 06:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Thanks for the info about mva manufacturing and response time measurements. I did not know that panels were tested for response time before they are assembled into finished units. This certainly sheds some light on the subject. Also, along with the aforementioned reasons (in my previous post), this new fact reinforces my opinion that reported response times are a poor indication of how the final unit will perform.
The information that fujitsu does indeed manufacture all mva panels is also very enlightening. I completely understand your statement about how mva technology is a viewing angle tech and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on response times. HOWEVER, if fujitsu is the only manufacturer of mva, it is possible that their panel inherently performs much worse than for instance the panel used in the tft7020 in terms of ghosting. This has certainly not been proven by any means. There would have to be a comparison of every LCD that uses an mva panel to determine whether the considerable ghosting being reported on the viewsonic and planar mva units is a result of poor electronics used in conjunction with the fujitsu panel or the fujitsu panel itself.
I believe that the volume of reports of serious afterglow/ghosting/blurring (whatever you want to call it) on the planar and viewsonic mva units can be attributed to those units and not simply different levels of tolerance or external factors. Now, if I purchase the tft7020 and the ghosting is just as bad as the pv150, I will recant that opinion in a heart beat. I would also lose all faith in the value of users evaluations found on message boards such as these. Currently, I put more faith in 20 users that share the same opinion of an LCD than 1 professional reviewer such as PCworld. Yes, I know they use a panel of judges but they still seem to come out with shoddy reviews. They seem to give MUCH more weight to price than anything else such as image quality in their ratings of monitors.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/14/02 06:33 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
grrr, the compaq sales and order status does not want to answer the phone, hehe been on hold for 15 minutes, i need to know how long the back order is, hehe i orderd mine a couple of days ago... getting nervous
but compaq is ussually good, so it will probably just be a couple of days
but compaq is ussually good, so it will probably just be a couple of days
flamethrower205
Illustrious
- Jun 26, 2001
- 13,105
- 0
- 40,780
did u order the one w/ or w/o speakers? Cause w/ speakers, forget it, u waitin a month- they don't produce em as much. w/o, u woulda had it already.
Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Is it possible to order one with a base but without speakers? The following is all I can find on the compaq website:
Part No. : 253217-001
TFT7020 Analog+Digital w/Speakers - 2-Tone US
Active Matrix TFT (thin film transistor) Flat Panel Monitor VGA, DVI-D Signal Input .264 mm pixel pitch
AND:
Part No. : 253218-001
TFT7020 Analog+Digital (Baseless) - 2-Tone US
Active Matrix TFT (thin film transistor) Flat Panel Monitor VGA, DVI-D Signal Input .264 mm pixel pitch
By baseless, do they mean one would have to mount it on a wall? I have no use for speakers on my LCD but I don't want to mount it on my wall. Ideally, I could order one with a base but without speakers, is this possible? Is the base something other than the stand that would allow the LCD to sit on a desk?
I am seriously considering ordering the tft7020. I would need to receive it soon though because I don't want to ship my pv150 back to dell before the tft7020 would get here. I would like a chance to evaluate them side by side and anyway I don't have a spare monitor to use if I send the pv150 back before I get the tft7020.
Also, I read somewhere that it was possible to get free next day air shipping from compaq. Is that true and if so how do I work that? I already figured out the nice student discount, thanks for posting about that. I could not afford $800!
*Edit* I did a little digging and it looks like the baseless model IS just for mounting on the wall and it does not come with the hardware to do that. Did you get a non-speaker model WITH a base? I really want to order this, but I can't wait weeks for them to be in stock. How long do you think it would it take if I order the model with a base?
*Edit.2* I just had a thought, does compaq sell the base seperately? That way I could order the baseless one (if that's the one they have in stock more often) and just purchase the base seperately. By the way, what makes you say that the one with speakers is always out of stock? Just wondering.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/15/02 00:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Part No. : 253217-001
TFT7020 Analog+Digital w/Speakers - 2-Tone US
Active Matrix TFT (thin film transistor) Flat Panel Monitor VGA, DVI-D Signal Input .264 mm pixel pitch
AND:
Part No. : 253218-001
TFT7020 Analog+Digital (Baseless) - 2-Tone US
Active Matrix TFT (thin film transistor) Flat Panel Monitor VGA, DVI-D Signal Input .264 mm pixel pitch
By baseless, do they mean one would have to mount it on a wall? I have no use for speakers on my LCD but I don't want to mount it on my wall. Ideally, I could order one with a base but without speakers, is this possible? Is the base something other than the stand that would allow the LCD to sit on a desk?
I am seriously considering ordering the tft7020. I would need to receive it soon though because I don't want to ship my pv150 back to dell before the tft7020 would get here. I would like a chance to evaluate them side by side and anyway I don't have a spare monitor to use if I send the pv150 back before I get the tft7020.
Also, I read somewhere that it was possible to get free next day air shipping from compaq. Is that true and if so how do I work that? I already figured out the nice student discount, thanks for posting about that. I could not afford $800!
*Edit* I did a little digging and it looks like the baseless model IS just for mounting on the wall and it does not come with the hardware to do that. Did you get a non-speaker model WITH a base? I really want to order this, but I can't wait weeks for them to be in stock. How long do you think it would it take if I order the model with a base?
*Edit.2* I just had a thought, does compaq sell the base seperately? That way I could order the baseless one (if that's the one they have in stock more often) and just purchase the base seperately. By the way, what makes you say that the one with speakers is always out of stock? Just wondering.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eviscerate on 02/15/02 00:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
grrr, i ordered the one with speakers, i need the monitor soon, i will call them tomorrow mornign, hoep they work on the washington day or whatever president's day it is.
a month is a long time, but does the speakers really matter, i always use headphones, cuz otherwise please complain abou tmy laod music
a month is a long time, but does the speakers really matter, i always use headphones, cuz otherwise please complain abou tmy laod music
Why don't you guys cancel the order from Compaq and just get it from place like Cdw or pcnation? they have it in stock and shipped same day!
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?edc=320316
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?edc=320316
Is this the educational/K12 price?
http://gem.compaq.com/gemcart/Basket.asp?ProductLineID=7&FamilyId=249&BaseId=2249&oi=E9CED&dcpqsid=409AW7G66GBW8K5FLW8M5BVN131SF4AA&BEID=150&optflag=False&OMIFlg=False
or is there another link for a "special" pro price?
becasue the pricing is about the same as you would get from a mail order company!
http://gem.compaq.com/gemcart/Basket.asp?ProductLineID=7&FamilyId=249&BaseId=2249&oi=E9CED&dcpqsid=409AW7G66GBW8K5FLW8M5BVN131SF4AA&BEID=150&optflag=False&OMIFlg=False
or is there another link for a "special" pro price?
becasue the pricing is about the same as you would get from a mail order company!
flamethrower205
Illustrious
- Jun 26, 2001
- 13,105
- 0
- 40,780
Change your order to one withouyt speakers, but with a base. It'll arrive faster. Just call em.
Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Can that only be done over the phone? Is it possible to order the one without speakers but with a base online?
flamethrower205
Illustrious
- Jun 26, 2001
- 13,105
- 0
- 40,780
Grrr, i just called them up and they told me the order did not go through, im liek why, they said We do not offer these prices to students any more, and im like i know other people have used the discount, and the says they might have giving the discount to the students for a while ago. this makes me mad, why could they not send me a mail about this
This is not good news 🙁. I can not afford $800. My gf was just hired as a teachers assistant for our local school district, would that count for the educational discount?
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