Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (
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> It's a card-saving special either way. Question is, is it a card-saving
> special that saves you cards you _can_ use or _can't_ use. If they're
> cards you couldn't otherwise choose to use...WOW!...that's much better!
> Again, with the caveat that they'll mean anything in that deck.
I think that's really side-stepping the point. Any deck with serpentis
actions *could* allow Allonzo to do them. More on this below.
>>> Anyway, I don't find the fact that Alonzo has obfuscate to mitigate the
>>> value of the free stealth as much as the fact that it can only be used
>>> for serpentis actions. The latter is MUCH more to the point!
>>
>> Meh. If you're not using the stealth for serpentis actions, then there's
>> probably a better vampire for your crypt anyway.
>
> You sound as if you build decks where vampires _only_ _ever_ take
> serpentis actions. In fact, you sound as if you can build such a deck.
> You can not. Allonzo WILL take actions that aren't serpentis actions,
Sure to the part about "you can not". But, in decks with serpentis
actions, you *can* make every effort (and I realize this next bit is a
limitation) to have him take the serpentis actions. Now, my point stems
partially from the fact that this is not really all that much of a
limitation, if it is one at all in practice. Serpentis is one of those
disciplines that you just don't get at superior consistently enough in
your low-midcap range to build decks where you won't have some sacrifices
made. Allonzo fits in as a vampire with SER, and a really strong special
when you're using Serpentis at all. Your other guys do different things
(bleed, diablerize, go make ham sandwiches, whatever) and Allonzo pushes
through your Serpentis stuff. For all intents and purposes, that's +1
stealth.
> I don't care what you meant to use the stealth for. Each time he does,
> the limitation kicks in. That limitation WILL have an effect. And it
> will almost certainly mean more than the issue of whether he has
> obfuscate or not.
I don't understand this paragraph at all.
>> What I find completely mind-boggling is that people malign really
>> really good vampires because they don't do what people want them to. .
>> . Allonzo isn't intended to be just the bestest vampire ever (that's
>> Arika, for those not in the know), but I'm sure I could (and will)
>> build several decks in which he will be worth his weight in gold.
>
> I don't know if you meant to include my comments above in that category
> but you chose to stick them underneath that quote. It was not intended
> to make malign Allonzo for not having a pure +1 stealth ability. I was
Yeah, well, I don't mean them to apply wholly to your comments, but I do
think you're underestimating the value of his special to the point that it
could be considered maligning. I mean, heck, a vampire has two superior
disciplines: SER/OBF. What would he go into decks to do? Well, use
serpentis. When he takes those actions, he gets +1 stealth. That's pretty
darned hot in my book. And it's really short-sighted to expect that he
won't make 1 point worth of costing value out of that special.
> just noting that the ability is of much more limited value than a pure +1
> stealth ability, for what it's worth. I don't think anyone will be able
> to judge what Allonzo is "intended to be" or not until (at least) we know
> what clan cards are available to him, if any.
Forget clan cards. As he is *right now*, he's good enough. I mean, it
seems like we're quibbling over 0.5 points or some such. Why? Sure, it's
more limited than simple, easy Lucretia-style +1 stealth, but for all
practical purposes it's basically the same. I don't expect abominations to
be a real clan with lots of members floating all over the place. So his
scarce penalty will probably not be that big a deal. Nor will his
sterility. Once you look at that, you think. . . He can't block undirected
actions versus he gets +1 stealth when doing a bunch of stuff. Seems like
more than a fair trade to me for a vampire loaded with OBF/SER.
>> And Allonzo is all about doing stuff.
>>
>> At +1 stealth even.
>
> Allonzo is about doing SOME stuff at +1 stealth.
Allonzo isn't going to be in your deck if he isn't doing MANY/MOST/ALL
stuff at +1 stealth. Heck, build me a deck where Allonzo is a better
choice than any other vampire you could put into the crypt to replace him
AND you won't be using serpentis actions such that you can have him do
them instead of someone else. That's when I'll believe that his special is
really a limitation worth costing down.
Ankur Gupta
Prince of West Lafayette, IN
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