Lag free PC for MMORPG gaming: Will use SSD. Performance is important!

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Hey, thanks MykC. I must have missed that motherboard. I can buy that one too. It is much better and it has 2 more USB ports (total 8). Very nice. .. it's also 4 months newer than the MSI board.

The Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P is much better.

About the gtx 295. Are you sure about that? I will after all be using 1900x 1200 resolution with AA and AF maxed + shadows.

The GTX 295 has 56 ROPS as opposed to the 32 the GTX 285 has.
I should think the amount of ROPS is very important for the processing power and Nvidia has been stuck at 32 ROPS for a long time, so it's quite amazing to get the 295 with such a big increase.

Also. The benchmark here: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-295,review-31489-4.html : shows that to play Crysis with full settings and AA + AF is impossible on a 285/280, but can be done relatively fluently on the 295. It is a whole 11 fps better (18->29).

Not that I actually will ever play Crysis, but it does mean that a heavy GPU load will benefit from using 295. It is a make or break situation here. .. The 285 is only about 33% cheaper. I could justify buying it if I don't change my GPU for 3 years. Even then, the 295 would still be powerful. If you look at the 8800 gtx, that is exactly the case. They are still working well.

It really boils down to whether I am going to buy a new graphics card in 1-2 years or if I can wait 3 years.

No matter what though, I have to wait 1-2 years. So, is that one extra year up to 3 years worth waiting if I can get the best GPU available now and play top level graphics for 1-2years?

... Its a different way of asking the question?.. Hmmm..
Or is it better for me to buy something newer by then? .. Then what would happen with the 295 GTX card?
What would happen with the 285gtx if I bought it and then dumped it in 2 years?..

The more I think about it the more I realize that the 295 is not a bad purchase. .. Also, it does have some kind of value as opposed to the 285 because it is an ultra model. .. Hmm.. Ill take the 295.



 
So now it looks like this:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P (1.05)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHZ (1.7)
GPU: Nvidia Geforce 295 GTX (3.6)
HD: 2x Raid 0: WD Caviar Black (WD6401AALS) ~ 640 GB (1.15)
Case: Thermaltake Matrix VX (0.7)
RAM: 2x OCZ Platinum 2x2 Gb – PC-8500 (0.5+0.5)
CD/DVD RW: Samsung Writemaster SH-S223F (0.2)
Power adapter: Thermaltake ToughPower W0117 (1)
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake MaxOrb CL-P0369 (0.3)
Router: LevelOne NetCon WBR-3408 (0.2)
Netcard: Sandberg Wireless G54 PCI (0.2)

Total cost: 11100.- DKK / 1956$ ..Might have to add a bit for transport. So roughly 2000$.
Computers are more expensive due to 25% added VAT on everything and maybe overall higher prices?

Hmm, I might have to rethink the CPU cooler though.

I'll look through the replies for CPU coolers. But feel free to suggest me one for the Phenom X4 940BE

 
I can't use the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro because it only supports Celeron and Pentium 4, apparantly to this website.. Is this true?


The Maxorb cooler from Thermaltake I originally went for is AM2 socket. But am I not using the Am2+ socket?.. I am confused.

Also, many coolers seem to offer AM2 AND AM2+ support.. .. Will the maxorb cooler work with my current setup above? If not, I have another list of possible coolers here: http://edbpriser.dk/Products/Listproducts.asp?ID=240&Parent=2&Sort=&Gallery=&Producent=0&Rating=0&Max=&Soegeord=&Direction578=0&Sorted578=&Equal5170=588497&Equal1448=&Direction1445=2&Sorted1445=&Direction1446=2&Sorted1446=&Submit.x=32&Submit.y=11
 
If I were you I'd spend half the money on a Sapphire 4850 X2 2GB (which performs extremelly well, I would argueably say best bang/buck ATI card for high-end gaming), and in a year and a half, buy another card of it's type (bang/buck) and you'll of gotten 3 years of maxed out gaming for the price of the 295.

Also, since you're an MMORPG gamer, check out the benches for that card on Anandtech dual core review. I know AoC isn't your game exactly, but it's stupidly taxing and has lots of graphic RAM use (and AoC is a little ATI biased in that benchmark), but that card crushes cards that are 50% more expensive.
 


Okay, okay.. So you're implying the 295GTX is a bad choice. ...

Fine, I'll read through that article. Wasnt able to find the march version. .. But graphics is just one area that cannot be understimated. It's the whole purpose of buying a new computer. To play with the greatest graphics.
 
To be honest if you have $2000 and you want the best experience over 6 years. Its called spend $400 case, PSU, HD and DVD drive. Spend $500 on a cpu/gpu/ram/mobo now and replace those parts every 18-24 months ($500 around). You shouldn't have to replace your CASE/PSU, you might have to replace your hard drive once. You sell the parts that you replace to cover a little bit of ground.

Look back at what a $2000 gaming system would of gotten you in 2004 (5years) and tell me if they would play a new game today.
 


Okay.. So I've read the conclusion of the march article and it talks very favourably about the gtx 295. I quote (important is underlined):


Codename: 2 x GT200b
Process: 55 nm
Universal Shaders: 480 (2 x 240)
Texture Units: 160 (2 x 80)
ROPs: 56 (2 x 28)
Memory Bus: 448-bit
Core Speed MHz: 576
Memory Speed MHz: 999 (1,998 effective)
DirectX/Shader Model: DX 10/SM 4.0​

Nvidia's GeForce GTX 295 sporting SLI-on-a-card is the most powerful single graphics card on the planet (this is important because by far most games can't utilize SLI or Crossfire). Essentially two attached GeForce GTX 280 cards that have been merged, underclocked, and stripped of a few ROPs, the GeForce GTX 295 offers very notable gains over the Radeon HD 4870 X2 in the great majority of game titles. (It offers very notable gains over the 4870X2! What about over the 285 then?!) Even more impressive is that it does so while consuming less power than AMD's flagship does, which is no small feat.
Click to expand...

So this does mean the 295 is a great choice.. You know. Graphics is the one area you can't save money on as a gamer. I've experienced many times shitty builds being able to run way better simply with a good GPU. ... You're right. A person should probably buy an above average computer at a medium cost.

But, I just can't sacrifice graphics when I know it gives 11 more fps (up to a playable 29.5 fps) in a demanding game (Crysis) with all eyecandy turned all the way up at 1920x1200 (which is what I want to play at since I bought this expensive monitor).

That 11 fps is what makes or breaks a game for me.. You can't have any fluent fights in any FPS if it lags just the slightest bit.. 29 fps ius actually very low, I would need 50 to be happy, but at least I can still kind of play it with all the beauties turned on. .. Ill turn some of it off to play competitively. ..

Now, even if Crysis is just an insane game and I probably wont ever play it.. I still think it puts a good example of what kind of performance requirements we will see from games in the future. I really think an ultra version of todays best single GPU card is the best choice I can make. .. Buying 2nd rate might work, but I just dont want ANY lag at all. Ever. For the next many years.. I guess I wont lag with a 285, but I do put quite a heavy load on it with the high resolution and the MAX settings.. It might lag.. And then I will be really upset that I didnt spend 30% extra to get the best single card on the planet. .. No. GTX 295 must get into that build.

But, nevertheless.. Thank you very much for trying to put some sense into me.. It's just that I am not REALLY looking after above average when it comes to graphics. Only when it comes to the rest of the computer. The graphics cannot be compromised with. It's the one area that really matters.

The point of building an above average cost computer is to ensure that it can match my GPU ambition and keep me in the game for the next 5 years. Buying new computers all the time is annoying and I do want to buy a new laptop when the time comes. At that point it will be nice if I can just upgrade my desktop with a better GPU than the 295 and it could still run things for me at medium settings seeing as the other components would be dated. .. THen I could spend some money on buying another laptop. ..



SORRY FOR THE WALLS OF TEXT!

😀
 
To be honest if you have $2000 and you want the best experience over 6 years. Its called spend $400 case, PSU, HD and DVD drive. Spend $500 on a cpu/gpu/ram/mobo now and replace those parts every 18-24 months ($500 around). You shouldn't have to replace your CASE/PSU, you might have to replace your hard drive once. You sell the parts that you replace to cover a little bit of ground.

Look back at what a $2000 gaming system would of gotten you in 2004 (5years) and tell me if they would play a new game today.
Click to expand...

I think a 2000$ gaming system from 2004 would have carried me so far. .. well, it would have been something like.

CPU: Pentium 4, 3.4GHZ
GPU: GeForce 6800 Ultra
RAM. 4Gb shitty 200mhz ram?

The 6800 Ultra (equivalent to 8600 gt desktop) is actually ranked in the 13th box on that march chart. My current GPU (mobile laptop 8600m, which is pretty good for a laptop) is in the 15th box. ..

The ultra would have carried me well for 3 years. It is equivalent to a 8600 GT. So, hypothetically, I could have a decent mediocre card in my 6800 ultra during the era of the 8800gts. .. I could even still play on the 6800 ultra as my littlebrother is using a 8600 gt and it is working perfectly fine.

No.. I think the top GPU from back then would still carry 5 years later. But, the CPU, the RAM and the motherboard would be utter shite... hahaha. It would. But, playable nevertheless. And probably do even better if I bought a good mediocre, new ATI bang for the buck card.

.. That is the reason I want to buy a good motherboard, ram (not 800mhz ddr2 ***) and a good CPU. (thanks for convincing me the Phenom II X4 940BE is a good choice).


So anyways.. I think I'm settled on this one. I just need to pick a CPU cooler and I can start ordering the parts later this week or next week. Whenever..

Unless you can convince me I really AM making a mistake. As far as I am concerned. The 6800 ultra 5 years ago would still work pretty well today.
 
Holy *** MykC. The XIGMATEK RED SCORPION-S1283 is awesome. It is also very new, from 4/3-09. (At least in this Danish shop).

I can buy it. Thanks a lot. .. This is a great CPU cooler.
 
Yeah, but that pos card from 5 years ago wouldn't be able to play any game in the last 2 years with any kind of settings on in any kind of decent resolution for the monitor you plan on getting/got.

Would you rather get 80 fps today...65 fps in a year...50 fps in 2 years...40 fps in 3 years...start turning all your settings off...35 fps in 4 years...28 fps in 5 years with everything turned to 'Low"

OR

Would you rather have 70 fps today..60 fps next year...buy new value card...65 fps 3rd year...55 fps for 4th year...start playing games on medium settings...45 fps for 5th year....then rehaul system again

That's the question. It's a shinier, prettier option to take #1. That's why nVidia and ATI are in business today, because of people that make this questionable decision (and ironic enough, that's what puts the system in place for the more informed to take advantage of it). You don't sound like you really want anyone's advice here and are just looking for a 3rd partys justification to throw your money away.

Best of luck if you want to ignore an entire thread and forum and people advising you to spend your money wisely. This is of course all predicated on the fact you actually have a budget you want to stick to, which it sounds like it isn't. So just go out and buy a new $2,000 PC every 2 years so you can post your 3d Mark scores to your MMORPG guilds website
 
Drakleon. Why don't you shut up, please?

I understand this is often the case with people posting questions about new builds. They sometimes want reassurance that their choice is the best and ignore the suggestions made by others

But, this is not what I have done. I have actually come out richer from this thread due to all the help I've had, particularly from MykC. I've chosen a different cpu, cpu cooler, motherboard and harddrive.

I was going to take advice on the gpu as well, but I reasoned it out in my previous posts why I want the 295gtx and why I think it's a good idea. So I think you are being a bit unfair towards me.
 
Also, the 295 gtx is only about 30% more expensive- plus it is a good choice for me as I will not play any other games but this same mmorpg for the next years. .. So I think you are being a bit unfair towards me.

Anyways.. I'm going to start ordering things soon.

I'll post here if something comes up. Thanks for all your help. And especially Enthusiast MykC! 😀 But also everyone else who posted here. Tomshardware forums rules 😉
 


Okay, now, if you really were going to play crysis you'd have a reason to buy a 295 gtx, but as you are mentioning here, you will be playing the same mmorpg for the next few years. Even if you were playing it for one year, and then switched onto a different game in a year that needed a better graphics card, it would be more resourceful to buy a cheaper card now, and be able to put the money towards something even better than a 295 gtx within the next two years.

But like I said, I think this thread is just you trying to convince yourself on your own choices.

For instance, if you're going the Nvidia route you could go with a 9800 GTX+, save around $400 in the process (295 GTX would be 300% more expensive) or if you actually took a step out and tried an ATI 4850 or 4870 (even x2), you'd save a lot of money.

Think of what you can do with $400... and I'm fairly certain a 9800 GTX+ will run your game flawlessly for the next however many years, unless you want to play Crysis of course, which I highly doubt you do. By the time you're ready to play a new game, the 295 GTX won't be the top of the line and will probably cost $200-$250 less, if not more... technology is flying exponentially now.

I guess the point is here... If you can clearly afford the card, then definately buy it. If you could use the money for other things, than don't spend it on this GPU upgrade, it really won't be worth it. =P

-Riley
 
I've ordered all the parts, but decided to purchase another case as the Matrix VX didn't get good reviews. I chose a Thermaltake Tsunami Va3000BWA. It's a light case, only 6kg. Just like the matrix. But it has better airflow and is more sturdy. Also, you can lock it in 3 different places. it's overall a nice case.


So, I think that concludes my hunt. Thanks for all the help.

I might get back here when I start to build, although it should be fairly simple and there is another thread about that somewhere around here..

Take care TH
 
*** ing play with laggy *** 30 fps. So suggesting that I buy a value card is out of the question when I want a computer that can run 1920x1200 with antialiasing (preferably x16 in games allowing it), full AF and everything at MAX.

Yes, a lot of games will run perfectly fine with a mediocre, but brand new card. However, I want to push the graphics all the way up, run lots of applications with multiple monitors and experience completely smooth gameplay higher than 30 fps or playable rates value cards can give me.

Furthermore, I think there is a difference running an mmorpg and a singleplayer game which all the reviews and benchmarks are based on. AoC being an exception. mmos are notorious for making you lag.. and its really terrible because they are the most fun games.

Anyways. I've taken lots of advice and I thanked everyone for it. But, I went through my options and made a choice. I am the one who has to play on it for a long time, not you. I reject your approval as proof that I don't seek it. ;D

But, to end positively I just want to repeat myself and say thank you.
 


Yes, but since you posted on the forum asking for help we are free to give our feedback, even if you don't agree with it. Which you basically came in with a genre-elitest background and started pumping your fists that you knew exactly what you wanted and nobody was going to change your mind. You should have specified what medium cost means to you, because it is much higher than medium for me.

My system right now has a 9800GTX+ in it, running two screens. I'm not sure how Lord of the Rings Online compares with Darkfall, but I'd assume the specifications are very similar. I run Lord of the Rings all on Ultra High settings, antialiasing, and have not felt any hiccups in raids unless it had something to do with my actual internet connection.

Here is my final suggestion, you have two options:

Option One:
GTX 295
Bragging rights to all your fellow mmorpg buddies who only have a 9800GTX+.

Option Two:
9800 GTX+
Shampoo
Conditioner
Cologne
5 Dinner and a Movie Dates
One year of feeding a child in Africa
Ability to buy the GTX 295 when you actually need it in the future

Just giving you your options, since you asked, but you already know everything.

You're welcome.

-Riley
 


I agree with drake on this. You would have been completely fine with a gtx 260 core 216 or gtx 285. And then when you need SLI or Crossfire a year from now, if not longer, then you can do that. The best part about that is those cards will be cheaper by the time you need a second one. I just ordered a x3 720be + gigagbyte board combo and a 4870 1 gb. It is for gaming on a 24" monitor. I will crossfire another 4870 probably for christmas or when I need it.

But still it is all your choice to the OP. Just giving some advice though! 😛
 



It appears to be moot at this point, but you keep bringing up '30 fps'. The only time I've seen it in this thread was in my post explaining that I'm running an MMORPG on highest setting with a budget card on a build I threw together for under $600. That was not a suggestion for you to go out and buy a budget card by any means. I only threw that out there to try to help show that you don't need to be buying the most expensive GPU you can find to run today's MMO's.

I think any of the cards recommended to you, especially the 4870/9800/260 will do everything you need it to and more. The cards recommended absolutely crush what I have

Again, it's all moot as it sounds like you have your mind made up. Just wanted to clarify in the event you thought I was suggesting you buy the card I'm using.

Good luck with your build.
 
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