Latency variation/ping spiking-wired traceroute's showing "timed out " 2nd and 3rd hop

[Apparent]

Hello all and thx for reading.

Windows 10 version 1809
Specs BT ultrafast hub.
50mbps down 9mbps up
Wired PC's.
Various online games.
Various ethernet cables.
PC1:
8700k
Maximus x hero
Dominator RAM 3200mhz 16gb
Evga 750g2 supernova
Cat 7.( maybe) ethernet cable

PC2:
4770k
Hero 7
16gb 2133mhz ram
Ax 760 platinum PC
Cat 5e cable


So playing online games or even opening web browsers i get high latency. Pages will "search timed out" or take long to load.
Games laggy unsmooth and rubber banding at times.

Have reinstalled windows PC drivers etc multiple times.
Made sure to keep minimal background processes and programs from running.
Ccleaner fix issues.
Turn off any antivirus.
Or any obvious lag inducing softwares.
Optimising windows 10 using guides online to keep minimal strain on PC and bandwith
Task manager and resource manager show nothing abnormal.

If i traceroute to any server any location or even google i get spikes in ping around the middle hops in 70's or so back down to 17 or whatever depending on locations etc.
The first hop is 1ms to my router but then 2nd and 3rd hop is "request timed out",
Fourth may have 1 or 2 asterix.
DSLreports on speed test show high bufferbloat levels and many of the ms spikes seem to correlate (coincidentally idk) in to what i see from in game network graphs. Or in game ping spikes. Maybe this is helpful info idk.. test reports i'm getting top speeds but i pass with D and C's for quality.

I am using my ISP router as i am not convinced why a third party router can help here!
I know next to nothing about networking.
Although i play online games i find it difficult to understand how to diagnose these issues when/if they occur.
This is 3rd ISP and i was previously looking into my own PC setup to find the cause in terms of hardware software until one advisor from my ISP heard my story and assured me he can fix it. Much to my surprise he almost entirely got rid of the issue until it shortly returned and returned back worse.(he resetted the connection himself and at exchange i think maybe tried something else too)

Can this small information be helpful in diagnosing the cause(s)
The thingy is that my speed generally doesn't drop even yet it is lagging...???

My ping is usually 17ms but spiking. However regardless of how many spikes i get. If they were minimal for eg i still get the lag. With maybe only a tiniest bit of difference with respect to my experience.

What can i do because my ISP are refusing to help because they find NO faults Other than sometimes the speed slowing
But as i mentioned before the issue is there regardless of speed.

 

[bill001g]

You have to be very careful with tracert and how you interpret the results.

Like you say hop2 always times out. If this was a actual broken network every hop past it would also time out. How could data get past a node that was down. This is also true of the latency. If you have high ping times to a intermediate node but the ones past it are ok then you have to assume the data is false for some reason.

A actual problem starts in say hop 3 and continues on every hop past it to the end device. This means hop3 is likely the cause of a actual problem.

You are better off using constant ping commands for intermittent issues. Tracert and other tools do not run long enough and you would have to get lucky to happen to run it when the problem occurs.

First is to let a constant ping run to your router. This will verify your pc and router are not the cause of the problem. Make sure you run this on ethernet since wifi it is common to get random ping spikes.

The next step is normally to run the pings to hop 2 or hop 3 but it appears your ISP is blocking that ability. Generally if hop 1 is good and hop 2 is bad it pretty much proves the problem is between your house and the ISP. With the ISP blocking your ability to test this they can also lie and say there is no problems. You want to run the constant pings to the first hop that will respond and hope that the router is actually in your ISP network. If not they will try to blame the other ISP when the problem could actually be in the hops they are hiding from you.

Be some what careful what is running when you are testing. Bufferbloat is real problem but it only occurs when you are attempting to over utilize your connection. The over use of the connection is really only fixed with more bandwidth. The QoS feature that try to stop bufferbloat are mostly a bandaid that helps but does not fix the fundamental issue of not enough bandwidth.

Just be careful the problem is not bufferbloat if you see your issues even when the connection is not being used much.

 

[Apparent]

You have to be very careful with tracert and how you interpret the results.

Like you say hop2 always times out. If this was a actual broken network every hop past it would also time out. How could data get past a node that was down. This is also true of the latency. If you have high ping times to a intermediate node but the ones past it are ok then you have to assume the data is false for some reason.

A actual problem starts in say hop 3 and continues on every hop past it to the end device. This means hop3 is likely the cause of a actual problem.

You are better off using constant ping commands for intermittent issues. Tracert and other tools do not run long enough and you would have to get lucky to happen to run it when the problem occurs.

First is to let a constant ping run to your router. This will verify your pc and router are not the cause of the problem. Make sure you run this on ethernet since wifi it is common to get random ping spikes.

The next step is normally to run the pings to hop 2 or hop 3 but it appears your ISP is blocking that ability. Generally if hop 1 is good and hop 2 is bad it pretty much proves the problem is between your house and the ISP. With the ISP blocking your ability to test this they can also lie and say there is no problems. You want to run the constant pings to the first hop that will respond and hope that the router is actually in your ISP network. If not they will try to blame the other ISP when the problem could actually be in the hops they are hiding from you.

Be some what careful what is running when you are testing. Bufferbloat is real problem but it only occurs when you are attempting to over utilize your connection. The over use of the connection is really only fixed with more bandwidth. The QoS feature that try to stop bufferbloat are mostly a bandaid that helps but does not fix the fundamental issue of not enough bandwidth.

Just be careful the problem is not bufferbloat if you see your issues even when the connection is not being used much.

Thanks for that reply it helps alot

pinging to my router seems to stay around 1ms
i did ping hop 4 instead as 2 & 3 are timed out and results are 100% packet loss

BELOW:
This is pretty much what i get when pinging any server too (in any location)

it is always like this at every 10 -20 lines spiking (usually around 70ms) it seems ofc to correlate with what i feel in game every so often or web browsing. My in game network tools show me "network latency variation" spiking with warning symbols

this issue is constant and never intermittent*


ping www.google.com -t

Pinging www.google.com [2a00:1450:4009:80d::2004] with 32 bytes of data:
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[bill001g]

Try to disable ipv6 in your pc and see if things improve. Even though IPv6 is suppose to be the "future" the ISP still seem to make IPv4 work better.

IPv4 also travels over different routers than IPv6 in many networks so you can get difference in performance.