LCDs and input/mouse/screen lag

[thx_1138]

I've just assembled a new PC and am presently looking at buying a 24" widescreen.
Once I had the PC assembled I plugged in a 24" widescreen (Acer AL2416Wd 24in Widescreen LCD, 6ms).
First thing I noticed was that mouse movement on the desktop felt sluggish.
Loaded up quake and found that the same lag was evident, same in oblivion. Ok, so I thought bad drivers etc and spent the next day reloading drivers etc, but couldnt get rid of the lag. Then jumped on the net and after quite a bit of research found out about input lag on LCD monitors. Apparently due to DSP processing time. At that point I stuck my old G520 on the newly assembled PC and the difference was pretty huge. Mouse movement in windows was instant response and quake/oblivion aiming back to normal responsiveness.
I returned the screen for a refund, but am still keen on getting a 24" LCD.
I've dropped into a couple of stores and tried 20.1" monitor setups and the same sluggish mouse feel is there.
The lag for me makes a large LCD unviable for gaming.
I haven't seen any screen spec which indicates how much of this type of latency (this is not refresh latency associated with blurring). I am wondering why toms hardware does not quantify this type of lag in LCD reviews? This would seem to be of high importance to 'twitch' gamers.
(and yes i know not everyone can perceive this lag for whatever reason. It is nonetheless a real lag and should be addressed in LCD reviews I would have thought.)

 

[strangestranger]

i've said it before and i'll say it again, ignorance is bliss. i don't find that at all. one thing, do you use a program such as my logitech one. it is important to set the mouse speed in it and the windows one the same or that really screws up your mouse. that may sound patronising and i know it returned to normal after changing monitors but stil thought i'd mention it.

one last thing, remember that advertised latencies mean nothing. if you can view a monitor or seek out customer reviews first. i can tell you that to my eyes my monitor is great.

 

[thx_1138]

yep i agree ignorance is often bliss.
however i was in ignorance of this issue when i first experienced it which is what prompted me to find out what the cause was.
during my testing i tried various mouse programs and settings for usb and ps2 mice - the lag never varied regardless of any mouse setting.
and i also agree that the only way to check a screen is to try it despite reviews.
i dont pay a huge amount of attention to advertised latencies either, 5 minutes of testing in just about any FPS game will show blurring. That sort of latency is not the same as causing the mouse lag however.
i just wish there was a specification parameter which quantifies screen lag and it would be nice if reviewers tested for this specific type of lag. there are many possible methods to carry out such a test easily.
and once again - i know some people are not sensitive to this lag (how they can not feel it is beyond me however).

 

[Roceh]

All the 24" PVA based monitors (dell, samsung, acer) have had reports of lagging. I've had a clan member who bought the none DVI version of your acer who recently sent it back because of the lag.

The older 23" monitors appear not to lag, or not to any noticable extent. However their response time isn't as good, so they'll blur more.

I'd recommend going for the a 20" widescreen if you really want widescreen. The new NEC AS-IPS is supposed to be really nice, and you can pick up some TN+Film based widescreens if you look around (ACER 2051W).

As to why NO hardware sites have really looked into this, i can't say, but i'd guess gamers wouldn't buy them if the issue was widely reported, instead of scattered around hardware sites forums.

 

[1cowboybebop]

This would seem to be of high importance to 'twitch' gamers.
(and yes i know not everyone can perceive this lag for whatever reason. It is nonetheless a real lag and should be addressed in LCD reviews I would have thought.)

I just bought a Acer AL2051W and yes I notice the mouse lag also. I thought it had to do with 'stretching' the screen accross a greater distance thus the same mouse movement would obviously move the pointer slightly less. I planned on experimenting with the logitech driver at some point, I use a marble mouse trackball which i find a very precise and fast pointer.

 

[1cowboybebop]

I'd recommend going for the a 20" widescreen if you really want widescreen. The new NEC AS-IPS is supposed to be really nice, and you can pick up some TN+Film based widescreens if you look around (ACER 2051W).
quote]

I just bought that Accer 2051W and I really had to dig around the net, but I think any information saying it's a TN film panel is inaccurate. I saw many references to it being either a P-MVA or S-PVA panel.

The acer site lists this monitor as displaying 16.7 million colors which is 8-bit... that is very atypical of a TN panel. Also the viewing angle is 176-176 degrees. I don't think TN panels are even close to those specs.

Anyways my point is I don't think that monitor is TN Film.


EDIT--------------------------------------------------------------------

I found a post of a guy who did a lot of research, it sounds right to me...

"The big issue with this monitor was a dispute over which panel tech it used. An article posted on lesnumeriques and behardware said it was P-MVA and named the panel, an AUO panel, same as in the Viewsonic VX2025 and the Belinea 10 20 35W. They also showed images of viewing angles which looked more P-MVA then TN. This checked out with the AUO site, which has the same contrast and brightness for the panel as listed by Acer.

However, looking through Acer's website, in html and pdf for each region it says the monitor is TN (it also says that it's an AL2015W). Pretty damning coming from the company themselves...

With it here in front of my I can perform a test for a TN, lift the monitor and view it from an acute angle from below. Every TN I've seen looks black, almost like a negative of the image, from below. This monitor looks near perfect from every angle, as in the lesnumeriques pictures.

What I think happened - The rest of the range of AL**51 monitors are TN, as are most gamer obscessed smaller res monitors these days. I think whoever set up the marketing material just copy and pasted the information for the whole range, and then changed the name, contrast ratio etc, but not the monitor technology. This is supported in president by the 2015 typo.

So to summarise, I support the lesnumeriques view. As such this should be considered by those thinking of going for a Viewsonic VX2025 or Belinea 10 20 35W, as a glossy screened alternative."

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I believe this ACER uses this panel: AUO