Linux: Now 400 Distributions Strong

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The one and only reason Linux is not more popular is... games. There's no point in trying to sell computers in a shop if you can't put a cool game on it to demo. There's no point in building computers with an OS nobody writes games for. This single point (games) makes for big houses not making Linux computers (either desktops or laptops), hardware manufacturers dedicating little to no time for Linux drivers, and (most) software companies dedicating... 0 resources for supporting Linux.

That and... some interesting product cancellations like the OnLive for Linux...
 
[citation][nom]palladin9479[/nom]... package management method for a disconnected network (otherwise known as an isolated network operating environment) then we'd look into it...[/citation] How about removing ALL update repositories from the package manager and then adding your OWN repositories? Where you put all your lab tested patches? Your argument is ridiculous...
 
[citation][nom]mihaimm[/nom]The one and only reason Linux is not more popular is... games. There's no point in trying to sell computers in a shop if you can't put a cool game on it to demo. There's no point in building computers with an OS nobody writes games for. This single point (games) makes for big houses not making Linux computers (either desktops or laptops), hardware manufacturers dedicating little to no time for Linux drivers, and (most) software companies dedicating... 0 resources for supporting Linux. That and... some interesting product cancellations like the OnLive for Linux...[/citation]That's one reason but its very short-sited and ignorant sounding to suggest its the...
Gamers are cool and all but they're not the largest or most important segment in the computing industry to the masses. ...perhaps to you, but not to the masses. Let's keep it informed-sounding, eh?
 
[citation][nom]mihaimm[/nom]The one and only reason Linux is not more popular is... games. There's no point in trying to sell computers in a shop if you can't put a cool game on it to demo. There's no point in building computers with an OS nobody writes games for. This single point (games) makes for big houses not making Linux computers (either desktops or laptops), hardware manufacturers dedicating little to no time for Linux drivers, and (most) software companies dedicating... 0 resources for supporting Linux. That and... some interesting product cancellations like the OnLive for Linux...[/citation]
Dude, nobody makes "Linux computers". They make computers. Period. Linux just works on them. They don't bother making games because of, well, the low Linux (desktop) usage. There are some commercially available games (Doom 3, Unreal Tournament 2004, Serious Sam, Neverwinter Nights, Postal 2, etc) because they made them using OpenGL, so they may as well compile the .exe and some other libs for Linux too. Most games use DirectX. And for that you would have to use an interpretor (Wine, Wine-Doors, Cedega, CrossOver Games, etc) or, better yet, run them natively by dual-booting.

Also: Running OnLive On Linux via WINE

You could stop bitching and do like I do for the 1% of software for which there aren't any open source alternatives for: use VirtualBox and a copy of TinyXP/MicroXP. They work fine with 256/384/512 MB RAM allocated (depending on what programs you'd like to use and how much RAM you have to spare).
 



This requires that you build a separate repository and the support components for it, requiring yet more manpower and resources, and none of it backed by industrial support. That is unacceptable in the enterprise world. At least MS makes WSUS which is easy to setup and use. Again make a one stop shop product and people will use it. Enterprise people do NOT want to hear "make your own solution", they want solutions prepacked and tested.

Its for these reasons that we use Solaris for our core systems and NT for Exchange / AD / DNS / Sharepoint services. Mostly NT is for the client box's while Solaris runs our real money makers.
 


NT? Are you jesting? Is it still legal to run WindowsNT? It's 2011. Shhh...before Microsoft hears you and sends the men in black.
 
OpenSUSE has a one click install feature. Can it get any more retarded than that? I don't know. The wiki says that it's very much possible to add it to other distributions. But, IMO, there's a catch: you should also inspect the file before installing, because you may just end up without a god damn bootloader. Brain-dead installs are the easiest way for people to get infected and then bitch about how Linux isn't secure. Well, yeah, dipshit. You walked over a manhole without looking where you were going. So you have to look at the install file and recognize a potential manhole when you see one. Most people can't and they have to TRUST that the button is safe to click, which is no different than Windows, really.

And I very much hate that approach. I think that compiling and installing from source is safer, even if it takes 3 extra commands instead of clicking "Next" 3 times, then click "Finish". It's safer because having the source code publicly available means that anyone can view and study it at any time and easily find any shady stuff in there. But that doesn't happen, EVER (to my knowledge at least). That's because the majority of developers use their Real names and don't want any mud on their track record. Their projects also look good on resumes, etc. And they're very knowledgeable people, most of them open to contributions and improvements to their projects. There's just something beautiful when great minds join forces (from all over the world). They make some pretty powerful stuff.
Click to expand...

The one click install is still a better approach than blindingly executing an .exe. Because even if YOU can't recognize a potential "manhole", someone else might. If 1 in 10 people check it out, and it's a mal-intended program, it would be too late for the other 9 people who downloaded it. And there's no way to contact them and warn them that their computers are infected!

Another approach would be to develop a "guardian"-like program that scans the commands for potential file deletions, modifications, etc., and highlights them (with succinct explanations on what they do) before you actually go through with the installation. Kinda like a watch dog that helps you cross the street so that you don't fall into the (potential) manhole.
 
[citation][nom]DSpider[/nom]OpenSUSE has a one click install feature. Can it get any more retarded than that? I don't know. The wiki says that it's very much possible to add it to other distributions. But, IMO, there's a catch: you should also inspect the file before installing, because you may just end up without a god damn bootloader. Brain-dead installs are the easiest way for people to get infected and then bitch about how Linux isn't secure. Well, yeah, dipshit. You walked over a manhole without looking where you were going. So you have to look at the install file and recognize a potential manhole when you see one. Most people can't and they have to TRUST that the button is safe to click, which is no different than Windows, really.And I very much hate that approach. I think that compiling and installing from source is safer, even if it takes 3 extra commands instead of clicking "Next" 3 times, then click "Finish". It's safer because having the source code publicly available means that anyone can view and study it at any time and easily find any shady stuff in there. But that doesn't happen, EVER (to my knowledge at least). That's because the majority of developers use their Real names and don't want any mud on their track record. Their projects also look good on resumes, etc. And they're very knowledgeable people, most of them open to contributions and improvements to their projects. There's just something beautiful when great minds join forces (from all over the world). They make some pretty powerful stuff.[/citation]


And this is why Linux will never be mainstream. The vast majority of people just can't / don't want to spend that much time to learn the intricacies of a computer system, but the true Linux nerds are so myopic that they believe anyone should want to because they think it's awesome. Common users would rather go do something else than to worry about something they don't think they can or should learn - and I'm sure you'd be OK with that.

Look at the source code and then compile it? Brother, I have a hard enough time figuring out what my own code is doing sometimes (when I forget to comment) without having to configure my system to compile every piece of software I want to install - because you know they're all using a slightly different environments. It's almost NEVER as easy as simply downloading the source and running "3 extra commands".

And seriously - checking for a rootkit is as easy as making sure you don't walk into a damn manhole? That's your best analogy? Last I checked, even Paris Hilton could walk around a manhole 75% of the time (plenty of jokes there)
 
[citation][nom]mayne92[/nom]Not only used for servers but to wreck havoc on your Wind0ze machine[/citation]
The only thing Linux has wrecked havoc on is new users trying to overcome compatibility issues.
 
[citation][nom]moonpappy[/nom]You constantly have to download service packs for Windows. I have had my distro installed on my netbooks for over a year without so much a hick-up. If it were so much work, I wouldn't use it. (BTW by now I would have had to re-install Windows at least once.)[/citation]

Funny you mention this, but my personal laptop is running openSUSE 11, and I'm constantly having to download critical security updates. My Windows7 workstation is updated about as frequently.

Windows Service Packs are roughly analogous to Linux/OS X version revisions. openSUSE is on 11.4. Apple makes you purchase these incremental updates. (I'd love to hear a more informed opinion on the topic)

Regarding Windows and re-installations, I haven't had the need to perform a clean wipe and re-install of a Windows Operating system on a machine since the venerable Windows XP. Vista and 7 have all worked great in my experience. Sounds to me like you've been out of the Windows space for too long.
 
By Linux computers I understand computers that come pre-installed with Linux instead of Windows/OSX. And, as you may know, some hardware works better with Linux than other hardware. When they decide to put a Windows-only webcam or some freaking network card that won't allow me to virtualize at with xen, then they're most certainly NOT building a Linux computer.

Games and gamers create a cascade effect. How about a killer Linux only game that every gamer simply MUST play? What would that do? Trigger the installation and the familiarization of all those gamers with Linux, and OS they had no reason to try before. Once that happens some other company may decide it's not such a bad idea to write OpenGL instead of DirectX... hell, that would make for more portable games... between consoles, mobiles, desktops... And then HP/Acer/Lenovo decide to build Linux computers (see above) and sell them in computer stores. For less money. Considerably less money.

And one more thing... with compatible hardware Linux is NOT harder than Windows. It's a lot easier. And... I do mean a LOT. Simple example... in our office they bought a new network printer. Some really hot HP stuff. But... it didn't came with any XP drivers. And some of my coworkers are still using that. HP found the drivers after 2 weeks and sent them to us. On Ubuntu I did Printing->Add and... oups... the network printer was already listed. Click on it, and do next. And that's it...
 


yea i am in the same boat. when i tried unbuntu in a VM i found that almost every time i go to check updates for it there was 100+ updates for it. unlike windows where every week you just have to download like 2 or 3.
 
[citation][nom]ansemx324[/nom]Does android count as linux? I think it should... If others agree, Id image that the percent of internet users using "linux" will grow substantially in the coming year with all of the tablets and smartphones[/citation]
It should, Android is just a different version of Linux.
 
[citation][nom]LuckyDucky7[/nom]Why can't they just make a concatenated Linux OS?Call it something like, I don't know, Grand Unified Linux or something.Which can install any package you throw at it.Which works with most plugins and software out there.If you can do that you can get some more adoption since developers know what they're developing for.[/citation]
Because Linux OS is centralized, the problem is that people who are not IT experts don't really know what an OS is. Distro is not OS, it's OS plus bunch of apps.
 



I don't want to get insulting, really trying hard here. Ok I'm going to assume your a hobbiest, nothing wrong with that but it means certain terms you might not be familiar with. Windows NT = Windows New Technology, its the kernel design that MS has been using since NT 3.5. Windows XP is NT Kernel NT 5.5, Windows Vista is NT 6.0, Windows 7 is NT 6.1 and Windows 8 will be a NT 6.x kernel. We use "NT" to reference any Windows OS that is using a NT kernel. Unix is typically used to refer to Solaris / AIX / HPUX, although most entities only use one of those three. Linux is used to refer to the myriad of distro's out there.

So no we're not running NT 4.0, we're running Server 03 / 08 / 08R2 otherwise known as NT 5.5 / 6 /6.1
 



Industry and free market have said otherwise. It's not about what ~you~ can do you ~your~ machine, or my machine, or anyone else's machines. It's about integration with enterprise services and cost of administration. MS has built an entire foundation and toolkits for NT Enterprise Admins to deploy and manage large hybrid networks. The closet competitor they have is Sun's (Oracle now /shudder) Solaris. Solaris actually does provide you with all those tools and capabilities, their archaic and require a deep understanding of Solaris's rather unique way of doing things, but they exist. RHEL is getting close to this in the Linux world but the g*d damn Linux geeks tend to get all righteous with the idea of an integrated network. To them its LINUX ONRY!!!01010101 or GTFO. Sound great on a web forum, absolutely is a turn off for enterprise customers. We are not trusting the safety and stability of our multimillion dollar kits to someone who gets emotional about their OS choice. That is the very definition of an insider threat and possibly sabotage by a disgruntled / estranged employee.

For gaming ... yeah not gonna happen. Any "big box" game that attempts to be "Linux Only" would end up a failure and their CEO kicked out. The market share for Linux systems is so small that the game would never recoup it's development costs and potentially could lose tens of millions of USD for it's publishers. The closest you can get for gaming is Wine honestly. Blame that on the OpenGL developers.
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Yeah, I do. Since all the software is in the repositories and can't be backed up to my external hard drive, Linux without Internet becomes an [even more] pathetic experience.Working, once they figure out all the driver and compatibility issues... which happens - oh wait, NEVER! Not at all. I have yet to see Windows limiting me,That's why... all the software you CAN imagine is a couple of clicks away - for US. For you, there's a limit of what works on your toy of an OS. OMG, IT'S FREE! You get EXACTLY what you pay for - in this case, it's nothing And you "have" to download the same updates for Linux, too, all the time, and it's MUCH more bothersome! And you DO have to reboot after you install it.Dude, you're pathetic. You can't fool people on this website. We aren't housewives; we know what Windows and Linux are capable of. GTFO and stop embarrassing yourself.[/citation]

Actually, I believe you are ( a housewife) as it is possible to back up or for that matter to load all the software available in the Debian repositories to an external hard drive. YOU may not be able to do it, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to do.

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/amd64/jigdo-cd/

I have 4 systems backed up on a single external hard drive and can restore in minutes. You have so much fact to spew, chew on that. BTW, I can't remember the last time I had a "driver issue" as most if not all of my hardware is supported by the kernel. This "driver issue" crap you speak of must be Win-speak for "Waahh, I can't get it to work!"
 
[citation][nom]willwayne[/nom]Funny you mention this, but my personal laptop is running openSUSE 11, and I'm constantly having to download critical security updates. My Windows7 workstation is updated about as frequently.Windows Service Packs are roughly analogous to Linux/OS X version revisions. openSUSE is on 11.4. Apple makes you purchase these incremental updates. (I'd love to hear a more informed opinion on the topic)Regarding Windows and re-installations, I haven't had the need to perform a clean wipe and re-install of a Windows Operating system on a machine since the venerable Windows XP. Vista and 7 have all worked great in my experience. Sounds to me like you've been out of the Windows space for too long.[/citation]

Yeah, I admit I have. M$ pissed me off about 6 years ago when they quit activating my legally purchased copy of XP (remember the birth of Genuine Advantage?) as I used to be a hardware geek er enthusiast and upgraded - alot. I swore off of them and never looked back. Found something better for me, my wife, my kids, and now my grandchildren. I was "playing" with Linux until then, now I play AND work with it:)
 
[citation][nom]amk-aka-Phantom[/nom]Yeah, I do. Since all the software is in the repositories and can't be backed up to my external hard drive, Linux without Internet becomes an [even more] pathetic experience.Working, once they figure out all the driver and compatibility issues... which happens - oh wait, NEVER! Not at all. I have yet to see Windows limiting me,That's why... all the software you CAN imagine is a couple of clicks away - for US. For you, there's a limit of what works on your toy of an OS. OMG, IT'S FREE! You get EXACTLY what you pay for - in this case, it's nothing And you "have" to download the same updates for Linux, too, all the time, and it's MUCH more bothersome! And you DO have to reboot after you install it.Dude, you're pathetic. You can't fool people on this website. We aren't housewives; we know what Windows and Linux are capable of. GTFO and stop embarrassing yourself.[/citation]

Get an education and read: When I DO have to update or choose to install software, I DON"T have to reboot - got it? It's bothersome for someone who can't figure out how to point-and-click with a different ui (this means you). You know nothing about Linux - the SAME updates? So you're telling me M$ updates Linux? Idiot. You really should know something about what you try to voice an opinion, because in your case, it's worthless.
 
[citation][nom]palladin9479[/nom]If the Linux community could create a package management method for a disconnected network (otherwise known as an isolated network operating environment) then we'd look into it. This idea of always being connected to the internet and utilizing a third party to drive your patch level is insane. Your basically relying on an open source non-profit distribution's website for your security posture, that's unacceptable where I work.And yes we validate every patch in the lab before we apply it on production.[/citation]


http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/
 



Already gone over this. We're not building our own repo, it's cumbersome and administratively expensive. We've done some pretty in depth look into this and didn't see anything would came close to what is needed.
 


And before you get all snarky, you haven't actually provided a product.

Let me tell you Linux guys something you might be missing, either on purpose or through a deliberate mental blockade. When you purchase a product and sign a licensing agreement the provider is under a legal obligation to meet your needs. If there is severe glitch with one of the Windows Server 2008 installs we contact MS and within minutes they have someone working on the issue. Same with Oracle and our Solaris systems. When we looked into RHEL Linux they were very shaky on providing us the service we needed, we had the money but there were legal issues of liability should something go really bad. It all boiled down to "we'll help you if we can, but your mostly on your own". This is due to Linux being code from many different providers and thus most of it is licensed on a "as is" basis.

Enterprise's are not in the business to "home build" software solutions, there comes with ~zero~ legal liability for the providers. If a kernel crash results in severe service outage, Torvalds isn't going to be on the hook for fixing it. I know none of this matters to home hobbyists or even small business's, you guys don't purchase $100K+ a year support contracts, but to big business it's very important. Senior executives (the guys who sign the purchase requests) can't sleep well at night without knowing there is no chance of something extremely bad happening the next day.

Now this isn't to say products based on Linux are this way. RPA's and VMWare ESX are both examples of products who are Linux based. But in both case's the product manufacturers enter into a legal agreement to support their products and take on that liability. Should one of our ESX servers go bat sh!t crazy on us, one phone call to VMWare and help is on the way, they will provide a fix for whatever is ailing us. Same for the recovery point or IDS or one of the many other appliance type devices we have. The manufactures are responsible for testing / implementing security patch's and we hold them to it. In essence this is where the Linux OS fits in the best, the ability for manufactures to not have to develop their own OS from scratch.
 
Palladin you may want to look at a company called Red hat. Its a FOR profit enterprise that makes and supports its own Linux distribution. They specifically target enterprise customers. In fact their most popular product is called Red hat Enterprise Linux. And if you buy their software you get updates from their FOR profit repositories.

Other options include Canonical, Novell and Oracle. Oh and as well. They all support a Linux distribution.
 
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