News Linux or Landfill? End of Windows 10 Leaves PC Charities with Tough Choice

[edzieba]

As I recall, Windows 7 and 8 PCs could, for the most part, run Windows 10.

And Windows 10 PCs can, for the most part, run Windows 11. And I'd be willing to wager that Windows 11 PCs will, for the most part, run Windows 12.

 

[palladin9479]

Umm .... Windows 10 is not going to suddenly explode , shutdown or be insecure just because MS says so. You are perfectly safe to continue doing whatever it is you are currently doing.

If someone wants to protect their PC the #1 thing they can do is not click links sent on email. Seriously, that's it, do not click email links and you just stopped virtually every hacking attempt on the planet.


Resource limited non profits should be using Ubuntu or Mint anyway, those distro's are designed for this exact scenario.

 

[derekullo]

Here at work for new computers we pxe boot into Quest K2000 and push the appropriate Windows 11 image for that computer; Staff, Patron, Server, Base. (I created each image!)

Unsure of the way that Quest K2000 does it but I am able to push a Windows 11 24H2 image to computers that shouldn't be compatible.

Some of our older gaming computers, mostly Alienware X51 R3, have an Intel i7-6700 and have no issues running Windows 11 24H2.

About mid last year I was told to reimage computers using an i3-2100 for some event and they also worked without issue.

 

[palladin9479]

I’m new to Linux. If a program is in the distribution’s repository software is easy. The hard part comes with programs that aren’t. The installation of these needs to be standardised and streamlined.

They are, it's called a package and the two standard ones are RHEL (.rpm) and Debian (.deb). Since those sometimes require additional dependencies, the installers frequently come with a script file (.bash or .sh) that will automatically add those third party repositories then install the software.

Outside of that there is also 100% self contained installers called snap and AppImage. These install the application along with all it's dependencies inside a single folder structure and maintain them separately from the rest of the OS.

EX: Here is MS Teams for Linux. This has the directions for installing it
https://github.com/IsmaelMartinez/teams-for-linux/blob/main/README.md

Under assets you can download stuff manually if you want and know what you are doing.
https://github.com/IsmaelMartinez/teams-for-linux/releases

Linux is merely the kernel, there are dozens if not hundreds of subsystems built on top of it all with different maintainers. There is no single super corporate entity that issues edicts from on high, instead it's a collaborative effort by multiple standards groups. This is why you have several different installation methods, all of which are supported on any modern distribution like Red Hat (Fedora), Ubuntu or Mint.

 

[stuff and nonesense]

The Linux approach is more flexible. Yes, if you mount it over something you didn't want to obscure, that's a way to create headaches for yourself.

If you're messing about with fixed mount points, I think it's a reasonable assumption that you know how they work.

I have a drive, 4TB spinning rust, it’s mount is

Media/me

I insert a new drive into the pc, more spinning rust, on a new SATA cable.

The system changed the 4TB drive mount point to

Media/me1

And mounted the new drive on media/me.

Removing the drive didn’t revert the mount. At that point I had to edit fstab. I used Vi a long time ago, 1994 on a cad course using Unix terminals, it’s still horrendous. If you like it, fine. I’m entitled to my opinion. Vi is not intuitive.
Kate worked.

Sda1 was reset to the mount point media/me . A quick reboot and I was able to see my share on the Linux PC and on the windows box.

I had no intention of messing with mount points, I had no choice but to mess with the things to get the PC working as it had originally set up on install.

 

[pointa2b]

Ubuntu/Mint are great distros even for the tech illiterate. My parents use each on their machines and have had zero issues.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Microsoft creating so much e-waste with their so called requirements.

I built this rig in 2014.. i7 4970k, Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 7, 32 gigs of DDR3, Asus 1080ti (upgraded 2017). What a shame, still runs fantastic. Linux is not on my bucket list either.

​

 

[blppt]

Not even Teams has a Linux-native app anymore, because Microsoft.

Really? I remember using one a while ago, did they really stop developing it?

 

[blppt]

If someone wants to protect their PC the #1 thing they can do is not click links sent on email. Seriously, that's it, do not click email links and you just stopped virtually every hacking attempt on the planet.

Pfft. This guy is going to regret it when I get my inheritance from my long-lost cousin in Dubai.

 

[bit_user]

I have a drive, 4TB spinning rust, it’s mount is

Media/me

I insert a new drive into the pc, more spinning rust, on a new SATA cable.

The system changed the 4TB drive mount point to

Media/me1

And mounted the new drive on media/me.

Removing the drive didn’t revert the mount. At that point I had to edit fstab.

I'm unfamiliar with that behavior, but I believe you.

Which distro and desktop environment did you say you're using? Did you click anything for it to mount, or it was just automatically mounted there at boot?

I used Vi a long time ago, 1994 on a cad course using Unix terminals, it’s still horrendous. If you like it, fine. I’m entitled to my opinion. Vi is not intuitive.

A lot of skilled tradesman use tools that require a significant learning curve. This didn't used to be seen as a problem, until Steve Jobs popularized the idea that all software should be intuitive. No: software that I use rarely needs to be intuitive, because I don't want to invest time into learning something if I don't use it enough for that investment to pay off. Then, it's a win for it to be easier to learn, even at the expense of my productivity when I'm using it.

For software I use like all day, then it's very important that it be streamlined. vi is a tool that's optimized for performing text editing operations, and it even works well over a slow link, which is great when I'm on a system that's an entire ocean away.

For sure, I'll agree with you that vi/vim shouldn't be the default editor. If someone hasn't bothered to set their EDITOR environment variable, then they probably don't care enough not to just use kate or joe.

Sda1 was reset to the mount point media/me . A quick reboot and I was able to see my share on the Linux PC and on the windows box.

Reboots aren't usually required, but fine if you didn't mind. You can umount stuff, as long as nothing is referring to it. You can start samba or nfs-server without a reboot, as well.

 

[blppt]

They are, it's called a package and the two standard ones are RHEL (.rpm) and Debian (.deb). Since those sometimes require additional dependencies, the installers frequently come with a script file (.bash or .sh) that will automatically add those third party repositories then install the software.

I used to HATE chasing down rpm dependencies in the early 2000s when using Red Hat, but Fedora's dnf is very, very good. I don't think I've had to install a single rpm manually or compile anyting since installing Fedora.

Ubuntu and other Debian based have apt, like you said, but I've actually managed to hose more ubuntu installs with apt than I have with dnf and Fedora. Actually, I don't think I've killed a single Fedora install.

That would be my main concern with Windows/Mac users switching to Linux, how easy it is to mess up your entire install. I, of course, could fix the mess, but I'm pretty sure most people who aren't hobbyists would take to time to figure out how to undo the action that screwed up everything from a safe boot command line.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Rufus.

 

[stuff and nonesense]

Which distro and desktop environment did you say you're using? Did you click anything for it to mount, or it was just automatically mounted there at boot?

Kubuntu, no… did nothing to mount it.

For sure, I'll agree with you that vi/vim shouldn't be the default editor. If someone hasn't bothered to set their EDITOR environment variable, then they probably don't care enough not to just use kate or joe.

Opening the fstab file presented me with vi/vim, not sure which. But the point stands, should not be default.

Reboots, maybe not required, many years of muscle memory… change a major setting - return to the ground state.

 

[palladin9479]

That would be my main concern with Windows/Mac users switching to Linux, how easy it is to mess up your entire install. I, of course, could fix the mess, but I'm pretty sure most people who aren't hobbyists would take to time to figure out how to undo the action that screwed up everything from a safe boot command line.

That's why snap and AppImage were created, everything is entirely self contained and it doesn't effect anything else on the system. The downside is they tend to take up a lot more space then regular packages due to so much duplication happening, but at least it keeps casual users out of dependency hell.

 

[palladin9479]

Kubuntu, no… did nothing to mount it.

Opening the fstab file presented me with vi/vim, not sure which. But the point stands, should not be default.

Reboots, maybe not required, many years of muscle memory… change a major setting - return to the ground state.

Learning vi, *real* vi, is a rite of passage amongst unix admins.

 

[sigma1950]

A couple of observations:
1. It seems unfortunate to me that Microsoft insisted on the CPU generation requirement. The TPM/UEFI/Secure boot seems reasonable and if this was the only requirement, motherboards back to around 2014/2013 would be able to install Windows 11. Many CPUs earlier than generation 7 can comfortably run Win 11 especially i7 and i5.

2. The main problem with post October 2025 is no more security updates (anti-virus, intrusions, malware, spyware etc). New features are of little concern. Why would not a purchased (or free) anti-virus/security software fill the gap that no more Microsoft security updates leaves??????

 

[SansHobo]

Many pointed out that non-profits have computers that will not support Windows 11. Using Windows 10 is still a viable option. Microsoft is not the only game in town providing patches. Take a look at 0patch (that is the number 0 followed by patch - https://0patch.com/). This keeps the non-profits running with familiar software and patched.

0patch even has options for paid support for additional patching that is considerably cheaper than Microsoft. They even get patches out before Microsoft issues a patch.

 

[abufrejoval]

While there may be ways to get around the hardware requirement, I don't think that PCs which do will get the benefit of continued security updates.

That's FUD, a weapon Microsoft likes to use for marketing.

But when it comes to actually blocking updates, that's where they seem happy with the volumes of crap they are creating involuntarily already every month.

For charities, the actual escape might be to go for IoT LTSC licenses, which they can buy, possibly by creating an "OEM" subentity.

That's what I use on my old (and new) hardware (if I need Windows), because Windows IoT LTSC doesn't requrie a TPM, HVEC, secure boot and all that other stuff that quite a few people would rather do without. Runs just fine on anything Sandy Bridge or newer here, zero issues with those all important monthly security patches.

And Microsoft is committed to servicing Windows 11H2 IoT LTSC until 2034, fortunately without those pesky feature updates: they can't break security updates on those without breaking contract.

Breaking them on "lesser" editions would require implementing code which checks for that. I'd see them doing that only when they get desperate. That might happen before 2034, of course, but Microsoft going Intel would also affect new systems.

Now getting such a license for private individuals isn't trivial, but a charity should be able to do so and declare all their refurbished hardware senior citizen support devices or whatnot.

Where I see a bit more of a problem is that all the usual software packages just won't get upgrades or fail to run, because they aren't even aware of LTSC life cycles: other vendory are keen on keeping the list of OS variants short, too. But ultimately they need to follow their customers.

And with sufficient yet slow growth (so the giant doesn't wake), they might find themselves with a critical mass big enough not to ignore completely.

And then perhaps we can get some regulators to jump in and slap Microsoft's hands: I'm very disappointed the EU didn't do that years ago.

On the other hand, the best way to have Microsoft change their mind is to have people switching to Linux in masses.

But IMHO all that Windows discussion is distracting public attention from the way more important forced migration to Office 365. I think switching away from Microsoft Office, Edge and Chrome to break the data collection pipeline of these vendors is way more important to avoid much more of a lock-in.

And you can start by installing and using LibreOffice, Thunderbird and Mozilla/Librewolf on any OS.

Especially outside the US, since there you now have a guys at the helm who know better about everything than anyone.

 

[USAFRet]

For charities, the actual escape might be to go for IoT LTSC licenses, which they can buy, possibly by creating an "OEM" subentity.

Remember, this is for systems that they are giving away for free.
"Non-profits that refurbish PCs and give them to the needy"

 

[halfcharlie]

I'm a little surprised so many here are the kind of people who use their PC just for internet browsing/casually (ok not that surprised given the clueless comments I often see), or the other extreme someone whose work etc is very specialized or technical in a way suited to Linux specifically in which case they're already on it. The middle ground is just too much compromise. I have a hundred applications, drivers and tools etc old and new (sometimes I need specific versions etc), I plain couldn't do my productivity work on Linux, it isn't viable.
Also because of that I can't start over on a new install of Windows for the foreseeable future given the complex ecosystem of my system built up over nearly 10 years and 3 hardware builds without a new install, I doubt going through the update procedure to try and keep everything how it is would turn out well for me. When the day comes that I can't avoid it anymore I'll need a holiday after having to deal with it and the stress. Also I don't know if anyone mentioned it but the paid W10 updates doubles in price every year and only lasts 3 years, ridiculous.

 

[USAFRet]

I plain couldn't do my productivity work on Linux, it isn't viable.

This article is not for you.

 

[abufrejoval]

Remember, this is for systems that they are giving away for free.
"Non-profits that refurbish PCs and give them to the needy"

They might have to adjust somewhere. There is sponsoring involved already, if only in effort. Trading effort for money is ok, even for a non-profit.

I don't know what M$ might be charging for IoT licenses, but if it was prohibitive, it wouldn't exist. At least the technical possibility is there, feasability a matter of investigation.

 

[USAFRet]

They might have to adjust somewhere. There is sponsoring involved already, if only in effort. Trading effort for money is ok, even for a non-profit.

I don't know what M$ might be charging for IoT licenses, but if it was prohibitive, it wouldn't exist. At least the technical possibility is there, feasability a matter of investigation.

An IoT license is not prohibitive, when used effectively.
It IS, however, more than $0.

 

[bit_user]

Learning vi, *real* vi, is a rite of passage amongst unix admins.

Yeah, it used to be that the one editor you could be certain was installed absolutely everywhere was vi. More recently, I have run into a handful of systems that do not include it in the base install, which I wonder if someone maybe didn't do out of spite.

 

[abufrejoval]

An IoT license is not prohibitive, when used effectively.
It IS, however, more than $0.

So great, right? Just need a sponsor then, who's willing to pay for the licenses others then put on these devices they refurbish with so much labor effort, which is a real cost as well, even if they sponsor it as free time.

If everything you give away for free may cost absolutely nothing, there is nothing to give away.

Non-profit typically just means that any money accidentally left over winds up as taxes. It doesn't mean you can't have a single € passing through the house.

Of course I'm from Europe and have no idea about any special regulation around US charities. Charities here sometimes have enormous budgets and you hear from them mostly when somebody's fingers got caught in the cookie jar.