Liquid Cooling System

[steelej6]

So this is my first post. I am building my first pc with the help of the internet. I am looking at a cooling system and am stuck between several fans vs a liquid cooling system. I will be overclocking and doing quite a lot of intense gaming on it. Any help is appreciated. What would suit my purposes more?

 

[cyansnow]

Liquid cooling is the best soloution for overclocking, but if it is your first computer I would hold back on custom liquid cooling unless you are 100 percent confident you can do it. A good cooler will do you fine honestly, one like the Promlitech Armageddon or Cooler Master Hyper 212, one mid range and one high end (the armageddon is like 75 dollars, hyper212 is 30)

 

[cyansnow]

Oh, unless you were talking closed loop cooling systems, those are easy as air coolers to install. Closed loop systems are the premade ones, corsair, asetek, antec, etc.

 

[Cryosis00]

Custom water cooling will allow you to attain the lowest temps. However they can get pricey and are not the easiest to setup for someone new to it, but not impossible

An alternative would be a closed loop water cooling solution like those from Antec or Corsair. They are on par with the high end air coolers and easy to install. Slightly more expensive then the air coolers but they are more aesthetically pleasing to look at , IMO, in a case.

Closed Loop Water Cooling
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181016
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181017

High End Air Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

The Hyper 212 is great for a stock system. I would only recommend it if you are doing a mild overclock.

Something that can not be ignored is making sure you have a case that also has good air flow.

 

[willard]

I would recommend very, very strongly against liquid cooling for your first build. Get some experience before you start doing advanced stuff like that, it will save you money and headaches.

 

[modbus]

I'm building my first PC too and I also want to watercool but I will do it in the future, the cooler I'm getting is the CM Hyper 212 Evo, I have read nothing but good things about it's performance for the price. I don't want to dive straight into watercooling yet, I figure build my PC first to get some experience and then with that experience under my belt go for some watercooling in the future. I have read a lot that watercooling is more of a hobby.

 

[modbus]

Cryosis00 what do you consider a mild overclock?

 

[fb39ca4]

Even with Hyper 212-level air cooling, you will be able to reach 4.5 GHz or so on a Sandy Bridge processor. Liquid cooling is overkill, only do it if you want your PC to look cool

 

[cyansnow]

yeah..I take that back, you really don't want to get into water cooling, it's a time eating practice and it took me about 2 weeks while working on the weekdays to get my second watercooling setup done, even with experience if you have to work during the week it's quite time consuming to do, and potentially dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Some steps to take before water cooling is to STUDY, you have to know your way around the parts and know what you are buying. It's not like walking into best buy and grabbing a PC, it is more of a obsession of performance honestly.

Some things that helped me a few years ago with my AMD water cooling fiasco were first of all, google, and then friends and local store knowledge. It's good to know what you are diving (hehe) into when watercooling, it's also quite expensive, a CPU only rig could run to 150-200 dollars easily, throw a graphics card in and it could reach 250-300, an SLI rig will run you 400+ depending on parts, as some graphics cards are cheaper to cool then others.

Please, stick with air cooling(or closed loop water) for your first build it is going to be a decision you wont regret in my opinion.

 

[noob2222]

I don't know why people are fooled by prices when it comes to performance of Air cooling. The D14 is overhyped and overpiced for its performance.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Prolimatech-Panther-CPU-Cooler-Review/1475/6

Note the hyper 212 EVO near the top, 36 degree delta? the D14 can be found 3 degrees warmer at 39 degrees.

The 212+ review has it at 44 degrees, but the EVO is way better performing than the 212+ and only $5 more. Thats why all the D14 reviews don't compare it to the EVO, but instead just a plain old 212+Conclusion : D14 vs 212 EVO is $50 wasted. youd be better off opting for the 612pwm and still cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103106&Tpk=coolermaster%20612

But for water cooling, it takes a bit of time and research to do it properly. First time is always a bit tense as your putting "water" near electronics.

 

[Cryosis00]

Cryosis00 what do you consider a mild overclock?

To me a mild overclock is an increase in performance with little to no voltage increase. As you increase voltage you are increasing the heat. A hyper 212+ does well but for me it is not good enough. Again this is subjective as some people are OK with a rig that runs slightly hot but still is within reason.

Personally I would go with a high end air solutions. The closed loop system provides no performance benefit over a high end air cooler and in many cases is slightly behind. When cooler master releases there new water cooling system this may change my mind.

Tell me what processor you are looking at for your build.

 

[whatsthatnoise]

I don't know why people are fooled by prices when it comes to performance of Air cooling. The D14 is overhyped and overpiced for its performance.

You're forgetting one thing: You are not supposed to buy something like a Noctua DH-14 if you don't plan to seriously overclock or just by a little bit, like they did in that test. Heavy OC is where this cooler will still shine, while others fail.

Besides that table shows the EVOs fan running at 1750RPM @load (1250 idle), while the Noctua still runs @1250RPM ... They only OCed slightly by 500Mhz, I'd be curious what happens with an EVO on an i5 @4.2Ghz (800 Mhz overclock). The DH14 will handle that with ease.

At stock speed or slight OC, you can use about anything. And yes that doesn't require an expansive aftermarket cooler.

 

[steelej6]

Tell me what processor you are looking at for your build.

I am looking at an AMD Phenom 2 processor

 

[voodooking]

If you are going to get the big Air coolers, check the hieght of your RAM. They can sometime collide with the cooler.

 

[noob2222]

http://skinneelabs.com/articles/

This is a good website for checking individual component differences in water cooling, he isn't as active as he used to be with keeping up on newer products.

one thing to keep in mind, the closed loop systems try to make it as cheap as possible to manufacture and produce. The components will not be anywhere near as good as a custom build. Even as much as a cpu block nowdays compared to 5 years ago can deliver 3-5 or more degrees differences.

Here is a review of pretty much the newest king of cpu coolers. http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/09/26/i7-2600k-cpu-xspc-raystorm/6/

 

[Cryosis00]

I don't know why people are fooled by prices when it comes to performance of Air cooling. The D14 is overhyped and overpiced for its performance.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Prolimatech-Panther-CPU-Cooler-Review/1475/6

Note the hyper 212 EVO near the top, 36 degree delta? the D14 can be found 3 degrees warmer at 39 degrees.

The 212+ review has it at 44 degrees, but the EVO is way better performing than the 212+ and only $5 more. Thats why all the D14 reviews don't compare it to the EVO, but instead just a plain old 212+Conclusion : D14 vs 212 EVO is $50 wasted. youd be better off opting for the 612pwm and still cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103106&Tpk=coolermaster%20612

But for water cooling, it takes a bit of time and research to do it properly. First time is always a bit tense as your putting "water" near electronics.

Not fooled by prices. We use reviews and benchmarks just like you. The first graph in that link is terrible to read. The second graphs puts it in a more appealing view but again there is more to it than what you see.

At full CPU load the 212 Evo increased 6dba in noise over idle fan speed. Also its fan speed increased 500 RPM while the D14 had no noise or fan speed increase. Again if the chip was overclocked the disparity would be even greater between these fans.

 

[modbus]

To me a mild overclock is an increase in performance with little to no voltage increase. As you increase voltage you are increasing the heat. A hyper 212+ does well but for me it is not good enough. Again this is subjective as some people are OK with a rig that runs slightly hot but still is within reason.

Personally I would go with a high end air solutions. The closed loop system provides no performance benefit over a high end air cooler and in many cases is slightly behind. When cooler master releases there new water cooling system this may change my mind.

Tell me what processor you are looking at for your build.

i5 2500k

 

[willard]

Get the Hyper 212 and an extra 120mm fan to set up push/pull. I actually just did this with a pair of Cougar fans, and the results are amazing. Dead silent operation, keeps my heavily OCed X3210 in the low 40s during stress testing.

It's cheap, quiet and effective. What more do you want?

 

[noob2222]

Not fooled by prices. We use reviews and benchmarks just like you. The first graph in that link is terrible to read. The second graphs puts it in a more appealing view but again there is more to it than what you see.

At full CPU load the 212 Evo increased 6dba in noise over idle fan speed. Also its fan speed increased 500 RPM while the D14 had no noise or fan speed increase. Again if the chip was overclocked the disparity would be even greater between these fans.

nice try to play a twist on the comparison you chose.

fan speed did increase from idle to load on the 212 EVO. went from 44db to 50db. the D14 stayed at 49db at idle and load. guess the EVO is quieter at idle and very slightly louder at load.

The cpu was overclocked, but at its maximum for the stock cooler so they could keep it on the chart.

Also the 212 has 1 fan, and if the cooling isn't quite as good, you can add a 2nd fan and still be cheaper than the D14 that already has 2 fans. When it all comes down to it, is 1-2 degrees worth $50?

 

[whatsthatnoise]

Take a look at this chart, it's way more representative.

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/zalman_cnps_20lq_review/6

This guy is always using the same system and testing at 4.0, 4.2 and 4.4 Ghz overclock. The DH14 beats the EVO by far at 4.0 and the EVO isn't even part of the 4.2 club ... guess why.

There's just no arguing about physics, the Noctua simply has a larger surface to dissipate heat.

Again, your argument about money/performance at stock or slight overclock is understandable. But like I said, you shouldn't be getting a Noctua for just stock speed/slight overclock, anyway.

 

[noob2222]

interesting find, but I question the changing results from one page to the next

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/noctua_nh-d14_review/3

68C

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/prolimatech_super_mega_video_review/1

63.5C

and then yours at 59.7C.

Looks like he uses the d14 over and over again, and as most anyone should know even small changes such as thermal paste and proper mouting can have a massive impact on performance. Using the same cooler over and over, you will find the best results and post those (updating it each time you get a better result). Where as the 212 evo, test once and shelf it. Still his 212 results being equal to the 612 i find hard to believe.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/coolermaster-hyper-612-pwm.html

612 can handle the 980X at 4.3 ghz with lower temps (77(75.7 with 2 fans) vs 78.5)than his 950 at 4.0. Like i said, I find that hard to believe.