List of most important bugs

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:

> Or we just organise a free beer party in the town he is living in,
> every German would surely come there, so he has to turn up eventually 🙂

The problem with that plan is that Gelsenkirchen has about 300,000
inhabitants. With that amount of beer money, we could easily finance
Thomas to work on ADOM full-time for a couple of years. 🙂

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:

> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>>Hordes have their problems too. Ever met a horde of
>>white unicorns with a crowned lawful PC? I think that's
>>a silly situation.
>
> You'd find me at the end of a rope if it happened to an
> ULE candidate. However tension rooms also have similar
> problems - all monsters are hostile pr. default. I have
> had L+ uncrown from a maniac blink dog in a mixed tension
> room. I have never seen a unicorn tension room however.

That's the point; they don't exist. The set of possible tension rooms is
fixed, and unicorns and blink dogs can only occur in mixed ones, and
thus very rarely and not in large number. However, people *have*
encountered hordes of about 20 hostile white unicorns, and killing a
white unicorn has a much, much worse effect on alignment than killing a
blink dog. It will make you a fallen champion immediately.

That being said, I agree that this issue should better be corrected for
tension rooms as well.

> [21:57] <ADOM-TB2> Ok, about the girdle Celestrix:
> actually you can't find all the artifacts in each game. A
> couple of them are deselected each time to play so that
> they are unavailable in the game. The girdle can be found
> but it should be rare.
>
> This would be the line I have focussed on. As I read it
> some artifacts are _randomly_ deselected at every game
> leaving the rest to be available for random generation.
> Randomly is underlined as that is the part I have read
> into it.

I found and read that sentence too, but I don't think that it implies
that *all* artifacts should be randomly available. What about Needle?
Sting? The Orbs? Clearly, there should be exceptions, and not all of
these are dealt with in a sensible way by the patch (ToGu has written
that Big Punch can be randomly generated in the patched version).

Malte

 

[MadDog]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Beerslayer wrote:
> maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
>
>> I think we agree fully then. Monsters that would
>> normally be neutral should be so in hordes/tensions.
>> Lawfuls for lawfuls, cats for wearers of RotMC, animals
>> for druids etc.
>
> For whatever it's worth, I'm not 100% sure I agree fully
> with this.
>
> Imagine it from the white unicorn/blink dog's
> perspective. You've just spent the last
> Corellius-knows-how-many years trapped in a small locked
> room with everything from troll berserkers to crystal
> statues to various assorted rats, snakes, orcs, goblins,
> swordsmen, etc., most of whom you're not likely to take
> up with socially in better circumstances. Your life is
> one of constant struggle, fighting, and general
> unpleasantness.
>

Being human and neither unicorn nor blink dog makes it
hard for me to imagine. The game helps me in this respect.
The blink dog and unicorn seems to feel my good intentions
and continue to battle with evil instead. That is the game
mechanics and the logic it works by.

> One day, a dirty, scruffy, heavily armored and heavily
> armed adventurer shows up in the room, who looking like
> he's spoiling for a fight, and who immediately begins
> hacking and slashing at whatever's within reach.
>
> Why would you, the unicorn, automatically assume this
> newcomer is co-aligned with yourself, and remain neutral
> toward him? That doesn't sound like an attitude
> conducive to survival, and you are obviously
> survival-oriented, since you're still alive after all
> this time.
>

As lawful you are NOT survival oriented in the sense that
you would not kill anything that walks just to live. That
would be neutral. Any lawful (and to that end also a
unicorn) face severe consequences from slaying another
lawful.

> Now, cats... cats are another story. If the PC is
> wearing the RotMC, its influence would and should be
> felt immediately. I'd expect cats to recognize the
> "ringbearer" and react accordingly.

.... and as lawful you recognize the one who will stop the
intrusion of ChAoS...?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:

> I think we agree fully then. Monsters that would normally
> be neutral should be so in hordes/tensions. Lawfuls for
> lawfuls, cats for wearers of RotMC, animals for druids
> etc.

For whatever it's worth, I'm not 100% sure I agree fully with this.

Imagine it from the white unicorn/blink dog's perspective. You've just
spent the last Corellius-knows-how-many years trapped in a small locked
room with everything from troll berserkers to crystal statues to various
assorted rats, snakes, orcs, goblins, swordsmen, etc., most of whom you're
not likely to take up with socially in better circumstances. Your life is
one of constant struggle, fighting, and general unpleasantness.

One day, a dirty, scruffy, heavily armored and heavily armed adventurer
shows up in the room, who looking like he's spoiling for a fight, and who
immediately begins hacking and slashing at whatever's within reach.

Why would you, the unicorn, automatically assume this newcomer is
co-aligned with yourself, and remain neutral toward him? That doesn't
sound like an attitude conducive to survival, and you are obviously
survival-oriented, since you're still alive after all this time.

Now, cats... cats are another story. If the PC is wearing the RotMC, its
influence would and should be felt immediately. I'd expect cats to
recognize the "ringbearer" and react accordingly.

-- Jeff
-- aka The Eternal Newbie

---------------------------------------------------------------
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted
to a profoundly sick society. -- Krishnamurti
---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:

> xhoch3 wrote:

Check your attributions; many of the things you quote were said by
somebody else.

>> Snail mail isn't that bad after all. It only takes a day if we send
>> it from Germany and it's better to have some piece of paper anyway,
>> you can strike through bugs taken care of, you can't lose it because
>> some virus formatted your hard disk, you don't have to have to use a
>> pc to read it and you can use it for heating if you haven't paid
>> your bills. I do think we should snail mail him a copy, just to make
>> sure he has one. I could do that (once we have the list put together
>> anyway).
>
> Yes; semi-simultaneous snail mail and email probably.

Honestly, that seems like too much pestering to me. Sending an e-mail
should be enough. If Thomas does not react, it is his choice.

>>> [...] it's the only _easy_ way I can think of that wouldn't actually
>>> have to add anything new (which Thomas didn't want to do at all
>>> anymore for ADOM, I've heard), [...]
>>
>> I wonder where you've heard that? The official news from www.adom.de
>> is that Thomas plans to set aside one evening per week for working on
>> ADOM. I have not seen anything indicating what you're saying.
>>
>> Quite a few people on r.g.r.development have spread false rumours that
>> ADOM is officially dead. This is not good for the community, so I
>> wouldn't make such a statement unless I could support it with facts.
>> Sorry if I sound harsh.
>
> I think it was Vlad that told me that, actually 😛 (though I'm not
> certain) I didn't say it was dead entirely, but it's obvious that Thomas
> isn't nearly as interested in ADOM as with JADE.

There's quite a difference between saying that Thomas is less interested
in ADOM than in JADE and saying that he "doesn't want to add anything
new to ADOM at all anymore". Vlad, can you comment?

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
>
>> xhoch3 wrote:
>
>
> Check your attributions; many of the things you quote were said by
> somebody else.
>
>>> Snail mail isn't that bad after all. It only takes a day if we
>>> send it from Germany and it's better to have some piece of paper
>>> anyway, you can strike through bugs taken care of, you can't
>>> lose it because some virus formatted your hard disk, you don't
>>> have to have to use a pc to read it and you can use it for
>>> heating if you haven't paid your bills. I do think we should
>>> snail mail him a copy, just to make sure he has one. I could do
>>> that (once we have the list put together anyway).
>>
>>
>> Yes; semi-simultaneous snail mail and email probably.
>
>
> Honestly, that seems like too much pestering to me. Sending an e-mail
> should be enough. If Thomas does not react, it is his choice.

I don't really think it's pestering, I just want to make sure this
information is read. I don't know if Thomas is generally too busy to
_reply_ to email or too busy to _read_ emails sometimes, so I really
don't think a single postal letter would be pestering. Send a postcard
with it 😉

>>>> [...] it's the only _easy_ way I can think of that wouldn't
>>>> actually have to add anything new (which Thomas didn't want to
>>>> do at all anymore for ADOM, I've heard), [...]
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder where you've heard that? The official news from
>>> www.adom.de is that Thomas plans to set aside one evening per
>>> week for working on ADOM. I have not seen anything indicating
>>> what you're saying.
>>>
>>> Quite a few people on r.g.r.development have spread false rumours
>>> that ADOM is officially dead. This is not good for the
>>> community, so I wouldn't make such a statement unless I could
>>> support it with facts. Sorry if I sound harsh.
>
>
>> I think it was Vlad that told me that, actually 😛 (though I'm not
>> certain) I didn't say it was dead entirely, but it's obvious that
>> Thomas isn't nearly as interested in ADOM as with JADE.
>
>
> There's quite a difference between saying that Thomas is less
> interested in ADOM than in JADE and saying that he "doesn't want to
> add anything new to ADOM at all anymore". Vlad, can you comment?

Looking through my gmail logs I'm not seeing said comment. For
clarification, 'Anything new' refered to completely new stuff, which
would require more effort than editing exsisting stuff. *Shrug* not sure
how true it is or where it came from now ;P

I did find some more bugs Vlad mentioned though:

The corruption rate only increases on the 90th day, instead of also on
the 180th and 270th.

Starting to walk wastes one turn without the PC moving.

Trying to attack a peaceful monster, then canceling, then moving costs
less energy (possibly related to backstabbing).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
>
> I did find some more bugs Vlad mentioned though:
>
> The corruption rate only increases on the 90th day, instead of also on
> the 180th and 270th.
>
> Starting to walk wastes one turn without the PC moving.
>
> Trying to attack a peaceful monster, then canceling, then moving costs
> less energy (possibly related to backstabbing).

I think the latter two have already been reported some time ago. At
least the third one has been discussed here about a year ago as far as I
can recall. Still, I guess a few more bug reports won't hurt too much in
case I am mistaken.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork Marcus bork 2:40:40 AM bork 1/13/2005 bork bork:

> Anyway, that's all tangental. The first suggestion would be my vote on 7LBs.
> Heavily increased food consumption

Not a very good solution -- many characters can stock up on stomfillia easily
(if tediously), and they rest can still stock up on food from the ratling
traders. Characters with good food preservation will under this solution
simply see fewer corpses rotting away before they can be eaten. This solution
would tend to encourage tedium, with the only real penalty being perhaps lost
game-days (in some cases before Day 90) spent on the tedium.

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork maddog@dsr.kvl.dk bork 4:26:57 PM bork 1/12/2005 bork bork:

[I haven't played ADOM in months and perhaps I shouldn't even be contributing
to this discussion, but I can't help myself. :0)]


> 3) In game bugs that severely hampers playability. This is
> the suicide bug for instance. Filk is perhaps the most
> severe as it blocks winning options. Also Keetrax (no
> Herbalism), Kranach (wasting time and piety for no gold or
> alignment), minotaur emperor (game score) and Griff
> (blocked portal and the need to expose the elder dwarf)
> are good examples of quite severe suicides. On the lower
> scale high XP monsters may commit suicide and rob the
> (trollish) player of much needed levels and thereby hamper
> character development. Also exploitable on top of
> everything else to make cats kill themselves. Not aware,
> but may also trap the player in the arena if an opponent
> kills him-/herself. All in all these bugs are just as
> severe as crashes.

I think this bug should be a) fixed, of course, but b) taken with a cool
head. The fact is, suicide beserking, and especially suiciding of key
characters. is rare. RARE. It doesn't make it any less frustrating when it
happens, but it's still rare.

> 4) In game bugs that skews class/race balance. The game
> itself is a result of long and enduring playtesting. I
> cannot claim honours on this - I joined on 1.0.0, but
> there is no doubt that the game has a very fine balance
> between the capabilities of races and classes. Some of the
> effects introduced in 1.1.1 to make it harder will favour
> certain characters more. Most important is the
> implementation of the uber-jackal effect as it can be
> defeated easier by some classes/races. I have never seen
> the need to specifically target summoners to this degree.
> A much better solution would be to make higher level
> monsters tougher in general. That would make every
> monster deeper in the CoC harder to defeat (and MaLaKaI a
> regular devil to beat). Also some of the effects to make
> 1.1.1 easier needs a touch with the balance stick. Most
> notably the Heir gift for Bards. Compared to other classes
> a Bard can recieve a de facto wish for 3 talents.

Ah, the memories of our disputes over ueberjackals. 🙂

First off: that was a very well-reasoned, unemotional, well-argumented, and
convincing presentation of the problem.

I think I'm most bothered by the labelling of this as a bug. I'd say it's an
issue, a problem, a misdesign, and an imbalance, but not a bug.

It's not game-killing for me; it's never been a reason for me to, for
example, go back to 1.0.0. 😛 But what you write is entirely true -- it,
especially in combination with beserking, forces players to develop ranged
attacks no matter what their class. Having a ranged attack was always a smart
idea, but FORCING the player to have a ranged attack means an impoverishment
of the game by a reduction in the number of viable choices (unless you
consider "melee-only-as-challenge-game"... but that's a little silly).

And that is a shame.

> 6) Exploits. These are bugs where the choice is left to
> the player and as a result not so problematic. Piety
> wrapping and repair stack blessing (which I admit to use
> myself) are examples. Either these need to be declared
> features or mended, but should definately not recieve the
> same amount of Thomas' precious time.

Topic drift: these exploits are laughable compared to certain intended
features and their interactions. The various available types of tedious
scumming in ADOM (stone giants, herbs, crystals, bugs, etc., and their
interaction with starvation, sickness, and rings of weakness), combined with
my own strong temptation to take advantage of them, are what drove me out of
ADOM. Which may or may not be a shame. 🙂

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Erik Piper wrote:

> bork bork bork maddog@dsr.kvl.dk bork 4:26:57 PM bork 1/12/2005 bork
> bork:

>> 4) In game bugs that skews class/race balance. The game itself is a
>> result of long and enduring playtesting. I cannot claim honours on
>> this - I joined on 1.0.0, but there is no doubt that the game has a
>> very fine balance between the capabilities of races and classes.
>> Some of the effects introduced in 1.1.1 to make it harder will
>> favour certain characters more. Most important is the
>> implementation of the uber-jackal effect as it can be defeated
>> easier by some classes/races. I have never seen the need to
>> specifically target summoners to this degree. A much better
>> solution would be to make higher level monsters tougher in general.
>> That would make every monster deeper in the CoC harder to defeat
>> (and MaLaKaI a regular devil to beat). Also some of the effects to
>> make 1.1.1 easier needs a touch with the balance stick. Most
>> notably the Heir gift for Bards. Compared to other classes a Bard
>> can recieve a de facto wish for 3 talents.
>
> Ah, the memories of our disputes over ueberjackals. 🙂
>
> First off: that was a very well-reasoned, unemotional,
> well-argumented, and convincing presentation of the problem.
>
> I think I'm most bothered by the labelling of this as a bug. I'd say
> it's an issue, a problem, a misdesign, and an imbalance, but not a
> bug.

I dispute this on a matter of definition: if it's not an intended
behaviour, and the effect is in any way negative (or maybe even without
the latter caveat), then it's a bug. It may not be a severe bug, but
it's still a bug. I'd note also that a misdesign, if not so low-level as
to be a fundamental flaw in the program architecture (and maybe even if
so), *is* a bug.

I say this as a programmer, albeit one not remotely advanced enough to
design (much less complete) a roguelike. If a program or feature thereof
doesn't work right, then almost by definition, it's buggy.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Erik Piper <efrniokr@sdky.cz> wrote:

> The fact is, suicide beserking, and especially suiciding of key
> characters. is rare. RARE. It doesn't make it any less frustrating when it
Wands of wishing are RARE. suicide berserking is common enough to happen
at least _twice_ in my every game.

brojek.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Tue I wrote:

> Since TB seems to resume work on adom, it would be a very nice idea if
> we had a list of the most important bugs ready, in case he doesn't want
> to look through all the 2336 bug reports on his page. That would
> certainly speed up adom development.
> I know this is not a new idea and was already discussed about a year
> ago, so:
> Has somebody already started a list?
>
> And is there anyone who wants to put such a list together? (I would do
> it, but I fear I don't have that much experience with adom, so I might
> just accidentally mix a few things up)
>


Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's at
http://adombugs.100free.com/
Is that okay with you?
Feel free to tell me if you have any better idea for a host.

PS: The page doesn't display correctly with internet explorer, the
non-scrolling box on the top right corner is missing and there is no
margin between the elements of the list which makes the it somewhat harder
to use/read. You should use some serious browser like konqueror, opera,
etc if you want it to display correctly.

--
Let us live!!!
Let us love!!!
Let us share the deepest secrets of our souls!!!

You first.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Tue I wrote:
>
>> Since TB seems to resume work on adom, it would be a very nice idea
>> if we had a list of the most important bugs ready, in case he doesn't
>> want to look through all the 2336 bug reports on his page. That
>> would certainly speed up adom development.
>> I know this is not a new idea and was already discussed about a year
>> ago, so:
>> Has somebody already started a list?
>>
>> And is there anyone who wants to put such a list together? (I would
>> do it, but I fear I don't have that much experience with adom, so I
>> might just accidentally mix a few things up)
>>
>
>
> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's at
> http://adombugs.100free.com/
> Is that okay with you?
> Feel free to tell me if you have any better idea for a host.
>
> PS: The page doesn't display correctly with internet explorer, the
> non-scrolling box on the top right corner is missing and there is no
> margin between the elements of the list which makes the it somewhat
> harder to use/read. You should use some serious browser like konqueror,
> opera, etc if you want it to display correctly.

Looks like a pretty good summary of what we've talked about. A few notes:

"True Berserker
You need to wield a weapon to be a True Berserker"

It should be specifically mentioned that this is a real problem for
beastfighters (it would be for Monks too, except they don't ever get a
true berserk bonus and they are not supposed to).

"Hordes/tension rooms
Cats/unicorns/blink dogs/animals in tension rooms and hordes should be
neutral to characters having the needed means (ring of the
cats/lawful/druid)"

They are definately all made hostile on purpose, and I really don't
think it's a big problem except for white unicorns. I just don't like
the idea of an entire tension room being neutral (rats for druids for
example)... though it would take more effort to only have some
exceptions since you'd have to add a new check to see where the creature
is being generated (say, if you wanted to allowed for blink dogs, white
unicorns, and cats but nothing else). I like my previously mentioned
idea of only making an exception for white unicorn threaten/horde rooms
(probably only for lawfuls; make creation impossible instead of making
them neutral), since everything else is a smaller scale and can be
managed well enough for the most part.


Also, I have some webspace (sans-ads) available for hosting this bug
list if needed/wanted, as well as the 'spoily info not (yet) in the
guidebook' page that was discussed... I'll start putting up info as I
have time, and others can possibly assist if they want to, we'll see.

 

[MadDog]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> xhoch3 wrote:
>> On Tue I wrote:
>>
[SNIP: Lets get a condensed bug list]
>>>
>>> And is there anyone who wants to put such a list
>>> together? (I would do it, but I fear I don't have
>>> that much experience with adom, so I might just
>>> accidentally mix a few things up)
>>
>> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee
>> list, it's at http://adombugs.100free.com/
>
> Great!

Indeed.

>
> A few comments:
> * 3.ii. is not a bug. Maybe rename the category to
> "severe bugs and game balance problems".

I must assume responsibility here for mislabeling this as
a bug. Without checking with Websters I believe a bug is a
segment of code that prevents correct execution of the
application. While it borderline it ain't a bug per se.

> * 3.iii. is minor, not severe.
> * 4.ii. is misleading; artifact *creation* certainly is
> random, but the choice of available artifacts is buggy
> (and apparently not random). The way you phrase it, it
> sounds like the player finds the same artifacts in all
> game.

A wording could be:
"One is left with the impression that any non-guaranteed
artifact have a low probability of random generation, but
they have not. Certain artifacts can only be generated as
crown gift and others have not been seen since the mid
gammas. Since two artifacts in particular (Vanquisher and
Suns Messenger) are extremely powerful this heavily
influences the game. Either this needs to be declared a
feature or grouping and generation of artifacts should be
rethought."

> * 6.i. Please, it's "Tywat", not "Twatt". After all,
> Tywat Pare is an anagram for "Wyatt Earp". Calling him
> "Twatt" is not a good idea (cf.
> http://dict.leo.org/?search=twat)
> * Typo: mosnsters => monsters
> * Typo: alwasy => always
> * Typo: thier => their
>

 

[MadDog]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> xhoch3 wrote:
>> On Thu Twinge wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
[SNIP: Just snip.]
>
>> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>
> Should probably be mentioned. I haven't encoutnered it
> myself so I don't know just how uber they become like
> that.
>

Worst with molochs as they are usually the ones to pick
them up, but any monster (I reckon) who dons a moloch
armor will go crazy. It wears off however. I know as I
wanted to exploit it and get a super beggar companion.

>> * jealousy piety (taking advantage of one god, and
>> gaining several pre-crownings from others)
>
> I think this was done on purpose too, but the extreme
> effects were never anticipated. I'd say leave it in but
> cap it, so your piety with the other 2 gods (that you
> aren't pissing off) can only go so high. (Say, a
> moderate amount where you could pray several times but
> not enough for a precrowning)

Yep. Cap it. Also make the piety loss cap out (so it will
maintain a constant, but severe decrease after prolonged
praying.)

> * This rage can sometimes turn a normal monster into a
> killer, or a dangerous monster into... that's bad for
> melee PCs... would be OK with one turn between the
> message is displayed and when it actually goes into
> life, and [more] prompt (or something). That's only my
> opinion, of course.

Perhaps not such a bad idea. "The -foo- looks like it's
about to enter a berserking rage" and then give the player
a calculated situation. Do I take another swing and face
the heat or do I get out of there?

Perhaps make it for players too. Increase the effects of
the Berserk tactic if you have less than MIN(tot_HP/10, 20)
HP left.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Tue I wrote:
>
>> Since TB seems to resume work on adom, it would be a very nice idea
>> if we had a list of the most important bugs ready, in case he doesn't
>> want to look through all the 2336 bug reports on his page. That
>> would certainly speed up adom development.
>> I know this is not a new idea and was already discussed about a year
>> ago, so:
>> Has somebody already started a list?
>>
>> And is there anyone who wants to put such a list together? (I would
>> do it, but I fear I don't have that much experience with adom, so I
>> might just accidentally mix a few things up)
>
> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's at
> http://adombugs.100free.com/

Great!

A few comments:
* 3.ii. is not a bug. Maybe rename the category to "severe bugs and game
balance problems".
* 3.iii. is minor, not severe.
* 4.ii. is misleading; artifact *creation* certainly is random, but the
choice of available artifacts is buggy (and apparently not random).
The way you phrase it, it sounds like the player finds the same
artifacts in all game.
* 6.i. Please, it's "Tywat", not "Twatt". After all, Tywat Pare is an
anagram for "Wyatt Earp". Calling him "Twatt" is not a good idea
(cf. http://dict.leo.org/?search=twat)
* Typo: mosnsters => monsters
* Typo: alwasy => always
* Typo: thier => their

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says the following as spoiler space:

> On Tue I wrote:
>
> > Since TB seems to resume work on adom, it would be a very nice idea if
> > we had a list of the most important bugs ready, in case he doesn't want
> > to look through all the 2336 bug reports on his page. That would
> > certainly speed up adom development.
> > I know this is not a new idea and was already discussed about a year
> > ago, so:
> > Has somebody already started a list?
> >
> > And is there anyone who wants to put such a list together? (I would do
> > it, but I fear I don't have that much experience with adom, so I might
> > just accidentally mix a few things up)
> >
>
>
> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's at
> http://adombugs.100free.com/
> Is that okay with you?
> Feel free to tell me if you have any better idea for a host.
>

I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!

Bugs:

* Ingot crash bug

* Skilled talent bug

* Monster killing itself during rage caused by near death state

* This rage can sometimes turn a normal monster into a killer, or a
dangerous monster into... that's bad for melee PCs... would be OK
with one turn between the message is displayed and when it actually
goes into life, and [more] prompt (or something).
That's only my opinion, of course.

* Chaos servants, jackals, spiders becoming too powerful too fast

* No corruption increase at days 180, 270
I think that's important. It is rarely talked about because it is not
generally known.

* Artifact bug (remember to mark Big Punch as fixed, and possibly the
most powerful ones are crowning-only; no sense to have Cat's Claw
as crowning only, or Lust for Glory as always unavailable) (#4546)
Fixing this bug would work as a new "feature" for ones who don't use
the patch.

* Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor

* 1 xp for cat lord after killing 300 cats

* There is a bug that causes a recoverable crash with message
"Invalid target in GetTargetData." on each turn
(about 20 reports on www.adom.de; supposedly it's related to near
death berserking of allies, and it stops when PC leaves the level)

* rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)

* typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
reported 7 times on www.adom.de

Exploits - nice if fixed, but honest players can also just say that
they won't use them:

* jealousy piety (taking advantage of one god, and gaining several
pre-crownings from others)

* piety oveflow

* unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name

* name command can detect invisible

* look command can detect webs

* I don't think the one with repair scrolls is an exploit (unless
used on artifacts, where it is a bug) --- but you can report it
anyway, it's Thomas who decides what is an exploit and what is not

* ... but I would say that using sickness, starvation, rings of weakness,
etc. to improve stats is.

A new feature or two would be nice, too...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu Twinge wrote:
> xhoch3 wrote:
>> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's
>> at http://adombugs.100free.com/
>> Is that okay with you?
>> Feel free to tell me if you have any better idea for a host.
>> PS: The page doesn't display correctly with internet explorer, the
>> non-scrolling box on the top right corner is missing and there is no
>> margin between the elements of the list which makes the it somewhat
>> harder to use/read. You should use some serious browser like
>> konqueror, opera, etc if you want it to display correctly.
>
> Looks like a pretty good summary of what we've talked about. A few notes:
>
> "True Berserker
> You need to wield a weapon to be a True Berserker"
>
> It should be specifically mentioned that this is a real problem for
> beastfighters (it would be for Monks too, except they don't ever get a
> true berserk bonus and they are not supposed to).
>
> "Hordes/tension rooms
> Cats/unicorns/blink dogs/animals in tension rooms and hordes should be
> neutral to characters having the needed means (ring of the
> cats/lawful/druid)"
>
> They are definately all made hostile on purpose, and I really don't
> think it's a big problem except for white unicorns. I just don't like
> the idea of an entire tension room being neutral (rats for druids for
> example)... though it would take more effort to only have some
> exceptions since you'd have to add a new check to see where the creature
> is being generated (say, if you wanted to allowed for blink dogs, white
> unicorns, and cats but nothing else). I like my previously mentioned
> idea of only making an exception for white unicorn threaten/horde rooms
> (probably only for lawfuls; make creation impossible instead of making
> them neutral), since everything else is a smaller scale and can be
> managed well enough for the most part.
>
Has been changed.
>
> Also, I have some webspace (sans-ads) available for hosting this bug
> list if needed/wanted, as well as the 'spoily info not (yet) in the
> guidebook' page that was discussed... I'll start putting up info as I
> have time, and others can possibly assist if they want to, we'll see.

That would be great once the list is somewhat complete, but at the moment,
there are still lots of things to add, so I'd have to send you a new
version quite often, and it would just take an awful lot of time till the
newest version is online.

On Thu Malte Helmert wrote:
>
> Great!
>
> A few comments:
> * 3.ii. is not a bug. Maybe rename the category to "severe bugs and game
> balance problems".
> * 3.iii. is minor, not severe.
> * 4.ii. is misleading; artifact *creation* certainly is random, but the
> choice of available artifacts is buggy (and apparently not random).
> The way you phrase it, it sounds like the player finds the same
> artifacts in all game.
> * 6.i. Please, it's "Tywat", not "Twatt". After all, Tywat Pare is an
> anagram for "Wyatt Earp". Calling him "Twatt" is not a good idea
> (cf. http://dict.leo.org/?search=twat)
> * Typo: mosnsters => monsters
> * Typo: alwasy => always
> * Typo: thier => their
>
> Malte

Thanks for all the reading through, you are so typically German 🙂, but
since I'm too, that's quite all right.
But for Twatt (lol) I have to blame twinge:
> Thug corpses have a bounty value on thier head, by Twatt won't accept
> them.
(It's always good if you can blame others)

Just for everybody who finds another mistake: It is always a good idea to
post a better version, instead of simply saying I made something wrong.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Thu Twinge wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Also, I have some webspace (sans-ads) available for hosting this
>> bug list if needed/wanted, as well as the 'spoily info not (yet) in
>> the guidebook' page that was discussed... I'll start putting up
>> info as I have time, and others can possibly assist if they want
>> to, we'll see.
>
>
> That would be great once the list is somewhat complete, but at the
> moment, there are still lots of things to add, so I'd have to send
> you a new version quite often, and it would just take an awful lot
> of time till the newest version is online.
>
>
> Thanks for all the reading through, you are so typically German 🙂,
> but since I'm too, that's quite all right. But for Twatt (lol) I
> have to blame twinge:
>
>> Thug corpses have a bounty value on thier head, by Twatt won't
>> accept them.
>
> (It's always good if you can blame others)
>
> Just for everybody who finds another mistake: It is always a good
> idea to post a better version, instead of simply saying I made
> something wrong.

Communist Lies!
I was kind of ignoring the grammatical/spelling errors for now, since it
is a first draft and such... you should probably put periods at the end
of most of the sentances.

The site is http://adom.falldowngoboom.org/ . I haven't put up much of
anything yet (as of now, corpse effects 😛) and what I put up at first
will be mostly plain text copies from my posts and notes. One I get
these basic versions up, if someone else wants to work on reformatting
everything to look cleaner and better that'd probably be good. (At least
doing basic stuff like using tables and lists where appropirate, etc. -
I could do most of that but I'm both lazy and semi-busy 😉

> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor

Should probably be mentioned. I haven't encoutnered it myself so I don't
know just how uber they become like that.

> * name command can detect invisible
>
> * look command can detect webs

Never heard of these. Someone should test them real quick and add them
if accurate.

> * I don't think the one with repair scrolls is an exploit (unless
> used on artifacts, where it is a bug) --- but you can report it
> anyway, it's Thomas who decides what is an exploit and what is not

Sure it is. You can bless a stack of 5000 uncursed stomafilla with 2
scrolls of repair. I'd call that a bug 😛

> * ... but I would say that using sickness, starvation, rings of
> weakness, etc. to improve stats is.

Perhaps... but it could take a lot of work to make them work differently
and it's probably not worth the effort.

> * unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name

Hehe, I suppose it should be mentioned anyway. I wish wands were sorted
alphabetically too ;/ (not for IDing purposes but for sorting/viewing)

> * jealousy piety (taking advantage of one god, and gaining several
> pre-crownings from others)

I think this was done on purpose too, but the extreme effects were never
anticipated. I'd say leave it in but cap it, so your piety with the
other 2 gods (that you aren't pissing off) can only go so high. (Say, a
moderate amount where you could pray several times but not enough for a
precrowning)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Thu Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>> Great!
>>
>> A few comments:
>> * 3.ii. is not a bug. Maybe rename the category to "severe bugs and game
>> balance problems".
>> * 3.iii. is minor, not severe.
>> * 4.ii. is misleading; artifact *creation* certainly is random, but the
>> choice of available artifacts is buggy (and apparently not random).
>> The way you phrase it, it sounds like the player finds the same
>> artifacts in all game.
>> * 6.i. Please, it's "Tywat", not "Twatt". After all, Tywat Pare is an
>> anagram for "Wyatt Earp". Calling him "Twatt" is not a good idea
>> (cf. http://dict.leo.org/?search=twat)
>> * Typo: mosnsters => monsters
>> * Typo: alwasy => always
>> * Typo: thier => their
>>
> Thanks for all the reading through, you are so typically German 🙂,

Nah, if I were I'd also have pointed out that some list items have
periods at the end while others don't. Dang, I've said it, guess you're
right after all. ;-)

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu Varkoill wrote:

>
> I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
>
> Bugs:
>
[snip]
>
> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>
What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch shouldn't
wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?
>
> * 1 xp for cat lord after killing 300 cats
>
> * There is a bug that causes a recoverable crash with message
> "Invalid target in GetTargetData." on each turn
> (about 20 reports on www.adom.de; supposedly it's related to near
> death berserking of allies, and it stops when PC leaves the level)
>
Where did you get the information from that it has something to do with
berserking of allies?
>
> * rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)
>
RFE.
>
> * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
> reported 7 times on www.adom.de
>
Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?
>
>
> Exploits - nice if fixed, but honest players can also just say that
> they won't use them:
>
> * jealousy piety (taking advantage of one god, and gaining several
> pre-crownings from others)
>
OK.
>
>
> * piety oveflow
>
> * unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name
>
Well, it's kind of the same with all unIDed equipment. I commonly use this
so I know whether the ration I picked up is cursed or not, I just buy an
uncursed and a blessed one in a shop (the price is different) and
everytime I pick a new one up, I look to which it is added, thus I know
whether it is b/u/c. This may be considered as bug, but it was there from
the beginning and I don't think TB will ever change it. I will mention it.
>
> * name command can detect invisible
>
Could one check that one, please?
>
> * look command can detect webs
>
Huh? Why should it be impossible to look at webs?
>
>
> * ... but I would say that using sickness, starvation, rings of weakness,
> etc. to improve stats is.
>
As twinge said: Maybe.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:

> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>
>> I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
>>
>> Bugs:
>>
> [snip]
>
>> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>
> What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch
> shouldn't wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?

It's because when a moloch, already very slow, puts on a set of moloch
armor and slows down even further, it speed apparently loops around past
the minimum - and you have a moloch which is at least as fast as your
average quickling, probably faster. It's not "letting a moloch wear
moloch armor" per se which is the problem, although that does make
fairly little sense considering what molochs are supposed to be; the
problem is, rather, what happens when a moloch does that.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:44:08 +0100, xhoch3 <xhoch3@safe-mail.net> wrote:

> On Tue I wrote:
>
>> Since TB seems to resume work on adom, it would be a very nice idea if
>> we had a list of the most important bugs ready, in case he doesn't want
>> to look through all the 2336 bug reports on his page. That would
>> certainly speed up adom development.
>> I know this is not a new idea and was already discussed about a year
>> ago, so:
>> Has somebody already started a list?
>>
>> And is there anyone who wants to put such a list together? (I would do
>> it, but I fear I don't have that much experience with adom, so I might
>> just accidentally mix a few things up)
>>
>
>
> Since nobody said, heh I want to do it, I started a wee list, it's at
> http://adombugs.100free.com/
> Is that okay with you?
> Feel free to tell me if you have any better idea for a host.
>
> PS: The page doesn't display correctly with internet explorer, the
> non-scrolling box on the top right corner is missing and there is no
> margin between the elements of the list which makes the it somewhat
> harder to use/read. You should use some serious browser like konqueror,
> opera, etc if you want it to display correctly.

I have had several characters lost to a very annoying bug witch I have
never remeber been discussed here and witch wasn't on your list either.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

h
e
r
e

After giving the amulet of life saving to whatshisname the dying sage
he starts to speak and I hit enter and the game crashes there.
No emergency save or nothing.


--
Signatures are for them amateurs.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu Jaakko Iisala wrote:

>
> I have had several characters lost to a very annoying bug witch I have
> never remeber been discussed here and witch wasn't on your list either.
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> h
> e
> r
> e
>
> After giving the amulet of life saving to whatshisname the dying sage
> he starts to speak and I hit enter and the game crashes there.
> No emergency save or nothing.
>
>

I don't think this one is reproducible, so I won't put it in, unless
anyone has some kind of explanation.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:

> On Thu Jaakko Iisala wrote:
>
>> I have had several characters lost to a very annoying bug witch I
>> have never remeber been discussed here and witch wasn't on your
>> list either.

It's been discussed, all right, though not to my knowledge recently.

>> s
>> p
>> o
>> i
>> l
>> e
>> r
>>
>> s
>> p
>> a
>> c
>> e
>>
>> h
>> e
>> r
>> e
>>
>> After giving the amulet of life saving to whatshisname the dying
>> sage he starts to speak and I hit enter and the game crashes there.
>> No emergency save or nothing.
>
> I don't think this one is reproducible, so I won't put it in, unless
> anyone has some kind of explanation.

IIRC, this is not unrelated to the ingot crash bug. It happens sometimes
based on what he drops; I think it's a matter of having two separate
stacks which should be combined into one but for some reason weren't.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.