Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (
More info?)
Twinge wrote:
> maddog@dsr.kvl.dk wrote:
>> Teemu Kokki wrote:
>>> Twinge wrote:
>>>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>>
>>> ** As an evaluation for the bug report about
>>> bug-scumming Thomas writes "A new balancing feature
>>> has been added that makes it a *lot* more difficult to
>>> increase attributes to high levels by eating corpses."
>>> Unfortunately you can still increase attributes to
>>> high levels by eating those particular corpses, you
>>> just need to eat a lot more of them, but since there's
>>> plenty available, the new feature doesn't really fix
>>> the problem. What it does do though is prevent the PC
>>> from reaching those high attribute values through
>>> eating corpses that normally get generated in the
>>> course of the game. Keriax's corpse for example used
>>> to be one of the coolest things, now it's practically
>>> worthless.
>>>
>> Sorry for snipping down and focussing on this, but you
>> are the first one to mention it and I happen to have a
>> similar sentiment as you. Not that I am against more
>> moderate increases to stats - I just think the current
>> implementation is poor.
>>
>> The only thing that has happened is that you see sick
>> and anorexic adventurers barfing up their recent meal
>> so they can stay starving and gain the precious stat
>> increases. Also you see adventurers armed with their
>> ring of weakness hammering down every possible wall in
>> hope of a stone giant corpse for some strength to
>> exchange to a different stat. Wrong if you ask me.
>
> Indeed, the current implementation really leads you to
> use strange scumming methods instead of just gaining
> them naturally over the course of a game.
>
>> A stat increase should be determined based on your
>> unmodified base score.
>
> Definately.
>
>> There is no harm in leaving this number pretty high.
>> Stats could be raised smoothly to 50 or so with
>> corpses.
>
> That would be 20 more than it is right now, which might
> be a bit much. Maybe bump the 20-30 section up to 30-40
> for the (+Stat) chances.
>
>> Some corpses need a serious downgrade in the amount
>> they can add to a stat. No non-unique should give more
>> than 2 in increase.
>
> This will be important to an extent if stat increases
> are increased; as it is it's not too bad.
>
I will comment all the way down here because the matters
connect as we both agree on. The excessive 50 on stat
limit was based on lowering the possible increase. The
idea is that you need to fight more monsters for increases
and as a result should have better chances to benefit from
that. If corpse stat increases are left as they are 50
will be excessive. 30-40 will be more appropiate. After
all you can withhold stat potions for a significant boost
after corpses seize to benefit your scores any further.
Again (as mentioned below) the GBU can give you are very
great increase to all stats.
>> If a corpse lowers one stat and raise another it must
>> be able to do so. If a given stat cannot be lowered the
>> increase is nullified as well.
>
> I have found that kind of annoying; -6 Willpower from a
> killer bug and I get 0-1 dex in return?
>
Perhaps my point wasn't entirely clear. Say that claw bugs
give -1Wi, greater give -2Wi +1Dx and killer bugs give
-3Wi +2Dx. If you have 2 in Wi you will only get +1Dx,
because your Wi cannot be lowered any further. If you have
1 you get nada in Dx. It should work the other way too I
reckon. It was basically an idea to lower bug scumming.
Unlike the rest perhaps not entirely thought through.
>> Base speed should increase smoothly to 300 and then
>> drop off. There is no reason to penalize classes unable
>> to cast spells further. Again your current speed is no
>> concern.
>
> 300? That seems pretty excessive. a PC at 150 speed
> already has some massive escape power, especially with
> some SLB. Speed seems about fine to me; you can scum it
> up to 300ish if you really want to.
>
It is pretty excessive, but you should also remember that
speed will lower the XP you get. 300 is loosely based on
the current max with Slow Monster, BotSS and <foo> of
sloth. Downgrading the speed gains from corpses is again a
better method of control and reward. You need to kill the
monsters to get there and you need to kill a lot.
>> Keriax' corpse is just a yucky steak. Shame. It really
>> destroys the balance between the unicorn quests. Either
>> the GBUs reward need a downgrade or at the very least
>> Keriax' corpse should give a guaranteed increase.
>
> Uh. It does.
>
> Black Druid: [Cursed:5%:+2d3PP; Uncursed:25%:+2d3PP;
> Blessed:50%:+2d3PP], 16.7%:+1Ma, -4Wi, +3Ma, +2Le, +1To,
> Corrupts 999, Alignment -1000
>
> It always gives you 3 Mana, 2 Learning, and 1 Toughness
> With a chance for another Mana.
As Malte (and yourself) have pointed out it is not the
Druid, but the multi-headed bundle of pain you need to go
tete-a-tete with for the crown. It is usually a late kill
and the amount of preparation needed to even consider this
task usually leave it as one of the last things before an
U*E. This also means you are likely to have substantial
chaos clearence and can use the corpse along with the GWUs
reward. I have always felt that this gave a sense of
balance between the two unicorn quests. The GWU give +10
to St, To and Ma (fairly important stats) and the GBU give
+6-9 to all the stats.
Some also use the corpse as "corruption pack" before
moving an UNE/CG/UCG candidate through the gate to meet
the extremely corrupted demand. For this purpose the
corpse is still useful.
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