Live Updates: Apple Goes Back to Mac - New Air?

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[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]I would hope they add new features since OSX has been out since 2002 and they have not had a major new OS release since then. Microsoft completely revamped their OS in that time and released Vista in 2007 and Win7 in 2009. If your OS life cycle is going to be 10+ years, you better add new features in the service packs to make it seem fresh or people will get bored and think you aren't "innovating" enough (a big Apple buzzword).Someone also stated that Apple never charges for its service packs, but I'm pretty sure I saw Snow Leopard on for $30 USD. Since it's still OSX, it's just like a service pack.[/citation]

Which XP features from service packs did you like think added lots of functionality? Windows Movie Maker from SP2?

Minor point releases contain security fixes. Are you saying that the major point releases (big cats) are not major OS releases? I would consider major interface changes, kernel changes, and added features to be new OS releases. If that's not a major OS release what is?

I mean Windows 7 kept Vista's kernel. Is Windows 7 not a major OS release? How would you define a major OS release? I love Windows 7 and I'm running it on four of my machines at home but I don't find it dramatically different than Windows Vista.
 
"Yes, good decision! Your Apple hater friends would have never forgiven you."

I don't hate Apple, but I hate hype and deceit. How can you sell junkware in nice casing at an inflated price and then expect respect? That is precisely what Apple stands out at. Sure dumb people are impressed when they see a Mac. The better half sees a hoodwinked technological moron. If I want to impress, I run a free distribution of Unix on a laptop with the latest CPU and whistles. An Apple logo with a matching scarf is hardly a sign of technological erudition, but its antithesis.







 
My friend who teaches at a fairly reputable college here in NYC has some rather surprising statistics. He told me that in in a calculus class he is teaching, the average for the 7 students that use Macs was 15% lower than for those who use other brand of laptops during his lecture; after pressing him for more information, he said he has checked with other classes that he has taught before and that the statistics is about the same generally. I then mentioned to him some other informal piece of statistics that a librarian who works at the NYPL research library shared with me. She said that when it is raining out, there are very very few Mac laptops to be seen in the main reading room as opposed to when it is bright and sunny. I thought these two pieces of statistics capture the general spirit of Apple fanboys.



 
[citation][nom]fellskrazykayaker[/nom]Which XP features from service packs did you like think added lots of functionality? Windows Movie Maker from SP2?Minor point releases contain security fixes. Are you saying that the major point releases (big cats) are not major OS releases? I would consider major interface changes, kernel changes, and added features to be new OS releases. If that's not a major OS release what is?I mean Windows 7 kept Vista's kernel. Is Windows 7 not a major OS release? How would you define a major OS release? I love Windows 7 and I'm running it on four of my machines at home but I don't find it dramatically different than Windows Vista.[/citation]

You're right Vista isn't much different from 7 and should be combined as one.
 
[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]You're right Vista isn't much different from 7 and should be combined as one.[/citation]

So Apple has generally charged $129 for OS X releases in the past, only $29 for most recent OS X, Snow Leopard. Microsoft has charged $319 for Win 7 Ultimate Full Retail and $400 for Windows Vista Full Retail (both retail prices at release). So you get more frequent OS X releases at lower price with no activation hassles. Or less frequent but more expensive Microsoft releases with draconian Windows Activation. Take your pick but I think it's about even.
 
Can't help but laugh at the fanboys calling OS X releases "service packs". FYI OS X is not "OS Ten". The "OS X" the brand of the OS just as "Windows" is a brand. Since there is no universally accepted format of software versioning, 10.4 10.5 10.6 etc is just as valid of a versioning system as Microsoft's Windows 1,2,3,3.1,4,5 ..etc. Linux distros have their own versioning system as well. Apple distributes their service packs as a third number, eg 10.4.0 10.4.1 10.4.3 etc. The Debian guys for example often laugh at Fedora stating if they followed Fedora's versioning scheme they would be up to Debian 104 but despite them being one of the oldest distro are on Debian 5.

fellskrazykayaker is quite right when states that major increment in OS X numbers are akin to Microsoft bringing out new versions of windows. The only real service pack in Windows that included some big functionality changes was SP2 for XP which introduced the firewall.

10.2 for example introduced Quartz Extreme, iChat, as well as several lower level improvements.

10.3 brought along FileVault, Safari, iChat AV, Fast User Switching, Expose, better windows interoperability as well as a new look and feel as well as the various extensive underpinning improvements

10.4 ushered in the intel era, as such had items like Rosetta, Spotlight, Dashboard, improved Mail, Safari 2, Automator, VoiceOver, Core Image and Video

10.5 brought us Bootcamp, Time Machine, Spaces, and full 64-bit support for apps

10.6 brought us openCL, a rewritten finder, Exchange server support, Coverflow, QuickTime X and Grand Central as well as the usual GUI and underpinning improvements normally associated with major upgrades.
 
[citation][nom]fellskrazykayaker[/nom]So Apple has generally charged $129 for OS X releases in the past, only $29 for most recent OS X, Snow Leopard. Microsoft has charged $319 for Win 7 Ultimate Full Retail and $400 for Windows Vista Full Retail (both retail prices at release). So you get more frequent OS X releases at lower price with no activation hassles. Or less frequent but more expensive Microsoft releases with draconian Windows Activation. Take your pick but I think it's about even.[/citation]

Why would you quote Ultimate AND retail when that version isn't even meant for regular consumers and the Apple "Big Cat" updates aren't full retail releases aside from the original OSX? Trying to skew the numbers much? Windows 7 Home is $120 on an expensive day. As are pretty much every version if Windows prior to that. Quote the proper prices and product before using it as an argument.

 
In dutch there's a saying: "Going back to the (time of) Makak"; is like going back 200 years (to half a millennium) in time.
 
[citation][nom]del35[/nom]My friend who teaches at a fairly reputable college here in NYC has some rather surprising statistics. He told me that in in a calculus class he is teaching, the average for the 7 students that use Macs was 15% lower than for those who use other brand of laptops during his lecture; after pressing him for more information, he said he has checked with other classes that he has taught before and that the statistics is about the same generally. I then mentioned to him some other informal piece of statistics that a librarian who works at the NYPL research library shared with me. She said that when it is raining out, there are very very few Mac laptops to be seen in the main reading room as opposed to when it is bright and sunny. I thought these two pieces of statistics capture the general spirit of Apple fanboys.[/citation]
The flip side of this is that these stats seem to indicate that you have to be a math genius to use Windows... At least up through Vista...
 
[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]Oh and I forgot to mention the deal for students with a .edu address. They could get Win 7 Home for like $30.[/citation]

Windows 7 Home does not include the ability to join a domain or use dynamic disks (software raid). Windows 7 Home also doesn't have BitLocker (file encryption) or allow you to connect via remote desktop (although it has the client). It's also missing the Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications (SUA) which means I can't cannot to NFS shares natively. These are features I think most computer geeks would like to have.

Yet Mac OS X lets me do all of this without having to shell out for the Ultimate Edition.

If you're lucky enough to be a student, you can get $100-200 off your Mac and every Fall they also offer a free iPod Touch ($200). The $30 student edition is only an upgrade license and still requires a fully licensed previous version of Windows. It was great deal if you happened to meet these conditions. My wife was able to get a copy of Windows 7 this way.
 
[citation][nom]fellskrazykayaker[/nom]Windows 7 Home does not include the ability to join a domain or use dynamic disks (software raid). Windows 7 Home also doesn't have BitLocker (file encryption) or allow you to connect via remote desktop (although it has the client). It's also missing the Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications (SUA) which means I can't cannot to NFS shares natively. These are features I think most computer geeks would like to have.Yet Mac OS X lets me do all of this without having to shell out for the Ultimate Edition.If you're lucky enough to be a student, you can get $100-200 off your Mac and every Fall they also offer a free iPod Touch ($200).[/citation]

I'm a tech and don't give two shits about that stuff. Neither do 99% of consumers. We aren't talking about what a "geek" wants to buy (and if a Geek wants to buy a Mac is a whole other discussion, most don't), we're talking about the price differences between the two CONSUMER products. Getting a 10% discount on your mac if you're a student means nothing when they're making 50% markup. The Win7 discount is 75% off.

You just keep trying to skew things to fit your "argument" because you know you don't actually have one.

Oh and if you want to talk about what "features" OSX has over Windows, you should start by listing games and 95% of the software market, and the fact that most Mac "geeks" install Windows in boot camp because their OS is so great they need another one to compensate.



 
[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]I'm a tech and don't give two shits about that stuff. Neither do 99% of consumers. We aren't talking about what a "geek" wants to buy (and if a Geek wants to buy a Mac is a whole other discussion, most don't), we're talking about the price differences between the two CONSUMER products. Getting a 10% discount on your mac if you're a student means nothing when they're making 50% markup. The Win7 discount is 75% off.You just keep trying to skew things to fit your "argument" because you know you don't actually have one.Oh and if you want to talk about what "features" OSX has over Windows, you should start by listing games and 95% of the software market, and the fact that most Mac "geeks" install Windows in boot camp because their OS is so great they need another one to compensate.[/citation]

I'm a geek. I use a Mac. You're absolutely right, I virtualize Windows on my Mac. And I virtualize CentOS. I do the same on my Windows box. I use encryption on both my Mac and my PC laptops. Why should you risk exposing sensitive data if your computer is stolen or lost? I think it's poor security protocol if you don't. I need to join AD for work. I use software raid. I have a linux file server so I use NFS. You're a tech and you never use RDP? I use Windows 7 Ultimate. I can't think you're much of a tech if these things aren't important to you.

I wouldn't call games an actual feature of Windows but it's great that Windows has so many games. I love gaming on my custom built PC. I'm a big Steam fan. Don't get me wrong, I love cheap commodity PC hardware. I'm going to build myself a cheap little ESXi box soon.

I'm really not trying to skew anything or present a distorted view. Nothing I've said is dishonest or untrue. I'm trying to honestly present my opinion from both sides. Despite the fact that I can probably get equivalent hardware on the PC side cheaper, many of favorite apps are not available for Windows such as iLife, Aperture, and Final Cut Express.
 
You guys do know that you can use Virtual PC to run Linux/Unix operating systems or pretty much any other OS? And the nice thing is you can transfer the vhd's like you would any normal VM so they are not hardware specific.
 
[citation][nom]fellskrazykayaker[/nom]I'm a geek. I use a Mac. You're absolutely right, I virtualize Windows on my Mac. And I virtualize CentOS. I do the same on my Windows box. I use encryption on both my Mac and my PC laptops. Why should you risk exposing sensitive data if your computer is stolen or lost? I think it's poor security protocol if you don't. I need to join AD for work. I use software raid. I have a linux file server so I use NFS. You're a tech and you never use RDP? I use Windows 7 Ultimate. I can't think you're much of a tech if these things aren't important to you.I wouldn't call games an actual feature of Windows but it's great that Windows has so many games. I love gaming on my custom built PC. I'm a big Steam fan. Don't get me wrong, I love cheap commodity PC hardware. I'm going to build myself a cheap little ESXi box soon.I'm really not trying to skew anything or present a distorted view. Nothing I said is dishonest or untrue. I'm trying to honestly present my opinion from both sides. Many of favorite apps are not available for Windows such as iLife, Aperture, and Final Cut Express.[/citation]

If you aren't trying to skew anything then why list features that few people use (I'll ignore the insult to my being a tech for now) and prices of products that aren't directed at consumers when we're actually comparing consumer products? You made Windows out to be overpriced and featureless while making OSX out to be cheap and loaded with features that every "geek" wants.

My whole point is this is most definitely not the case. Both operating systems have their pros and cons and both are similarly priced for consumers. (Unless we get into the full price of a Mac, then we get into a different argument about overpricing).

As I said, I'm a tech and those things you listed are not important to me. I use Software raid on Win7 Pro and I have Pro for hardware virtualization. I used to have a Linux box but it was more of a hassle than useful. I have no use for terminal services in my environment (perhaps if I was in enterprise I might) If I want to encrypt data, I use TrueCrypt. Not only that but I don't have any sensitive data on my home computer or laptop. If I want better security for a work system or client system, I use what ever commercial product suits the needs and that may include Ultimate... but then we aren't talking consumer products again, and that's how this discussion started.

 
[citation][nom]ohseus[/nom]For the "over priced" comments. Please provide a link to a cheaper laptop that uses an SSD and backlit LED monitor that just happens to be less than an inch thick.[/citation]

Quite a few netbooks are SSD, LED, and thin enough that it doesn't matter exactly how thin they are. You lose, but nice try.
 
[citation][nom]tester24[/nom]Yeah funny thing no one mentioned that the apple market share has no where to go but up...[/citation]

You mean sideways right? "Because 90% of the computing world must be wrong!"
 


I think we've gotten way off the original subject which is the MacBook Air :kaola: We could probably go back and forth all day. We have a difference of opinion but I guess to each his own. Thanks for providing some good examples and not just hating Apple for no reason. There are plenty of good reasons why a Mac doesn't work for you. But there are plenty of good reasons why only using a using PC doesn't work for me. I guess I'm an OS whore. 😛

But really, I think the new MacBook Air 13" matches up reasonable well against the Dell Adamo which I believe is it's closest PC contemporary in terms of form factor, thickness, and weight.
 
[citation][nom]beayn[/nom]and the fact that most Mac "geeks" install Windows in boot camp because their OS is so great they need another one to compensate.[/citation]

Bull. Switchers do it in the beginning to use as a "safety blanket" after they become familiar with OS X 9 times out of 10 then access this help document on how to remove windows after realizing they are not missing anything in OS X.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.5/en/15554.html

The only ones that tend to keep Windows installed on their Mac are either gamers or users that require very specialized proprietary apps that are windows only. Fortunately that user group is a very small portion of the average computer user market even in the PC / Windows world.


 
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