[SOLVED] Looking for help in choosing a new case

[JacPoison]

Planning an upgrade of my PC for my first time and my case leaves much to be desired even for current setup.
I understand that the tower can outlive more than one build and upgrade so decided to choose the best option.

PSU: FractalDesign Ion+ 760P
GPU: Gigabyte 3070ti Gaming OC (320mm)
Storage: 2.5 SSD + 2 x 1TB HDD

Want to buy i7-12700k + Z690 ATX + cooling system.

At first I thought about something like Noctua D15 with bequiet 500DX or Meshify C/2 comp. But when I began to look closely at the AIO liquid cooling turned out that it cant fit even 280mm on the top.
(I want something near Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360, but still not sure)

I looked at:

• LianLi: PC-011 Air ; PC-011 Dynamic \ Dynamic XL
  (although I came to the conclusion that I do not really like the design)
  
  
• Fractal Design Meshify 2 / 2 XL ; Torrent
  (I still do not understand the public's attitude towards the Defline series)
  
  
• Phanteks Eclipse P500A
  (Eclipse P600S & Enthoo-series?)

Also got advices to look at be quiet! Silent Base 802 Window (out of stock in my region) и Corsair 7000D Airflow (seems too big).

So what do you think, what will be the best choise? I appreciate any advice.
And what about fans: do I definetly need to buy them in any case?
My apologies for bad english.

 

[Hellfire13]

Plenty of good options listed below. Research as per availability in your region...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-pc-cases,4183.html
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3630-best-worst-pc-cases-2020

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyWUAjmmZA

 

[geofelt]

Any of the cases you are looking at will hold your parts.
They all have adequate front air intake capability for a good air cooler.
I do not see liquid cooling as necessary unless you are planning of overclocking as well as running multithreaded batch apps.
Do you have a budget?
I imagine that your main use will be for gaming.
In that case, consider the I5-12600K instead.
You get 16 cores vs. 20 for the 12700K, but few games are going to effectively use more than 4-6 cores anyway.
Here is a review:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

On cooling, noctua had a database of suitable coolers for various processors.
Here is the one for 12700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-1579
Many air coolers are suitable.

My best advice is to buy a case that visually appeals to you.
You will be with it for a long time.

I might buy the lian-li o11 air mini.
https://www.newegg.com/p/2AM-000Z-00080
It comes in black and white.
It includes two 140mm front intakes and can accommodate any air cooler you might want.

What is your prospective Z690 motherboard?
Some Asus units have oversized vrm heat sinks that can impact some coolers. Noctua has motherboard compatibility charts that identify them.

As you might guess, I am not enthused about aio coolers unless you need a 360 size or better for enthusiast overclocking.
As a practical matter overclocking may not be as effective as stock operation where the turbo mechanism might do better.
AIO will have catch 22 mounting issues.
Do you optimize cpu cooling at the expense of graphics card and motherboard vrm cooling?
Add to that that aio coolers do not last forever. In time air intrudes and they must be replaced.

 

[JacPoison]

Plenty of good options listed below. Research as per availability in your region...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-pc-cases,4183.html
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3630-best-worst-pc-cases-2020

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyWUAjmmZA

Thanks, i used this resourses to create my case-list above.

Any of the cases you are looking at will hold your parts.
They all have adequate front air intake capability for a good air cooler.
I do not see liquid cooling as necessary unless you are planning of overclocking as well as running multithreaded batch apps.
Do you have a budget?
I imagine that your main use will be for gaming.
In that case, consider the I5-12600K instead.
You get 16 cores vs. 20 for the 12700K, but few games are going to effectively use more than 4-6 cores anyway.
Here is a review:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

On cooling, noctua had a database of suitable coolers for various processors.
Here is the one for 12700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-1579
Many air coolers are suitable.

My best advice is to buy a case that visually appeals to you.
You will be with it for a long time.

I might buy the lian-li o11 air mini.
https://www.newegg.com/p/2AM-000Z-00080
It comes in black and white.
It includes two 140mm front intakes and can accommodate any air cooler you might want.

What is your prospective Z690 motherboard?
Some Asus units have oversized vrm heat sinks that can impact some coolers. Noctua has motherboard compatibility charts that identify them.

As you might guess, I am not enthused about aio coolers unless you need a 360 size or better for enthusiast overclocking.
As a practical matter overclocking may not be as effective as stock operation where the turbo mechanism might do better.
AIO will have cach 22 mounting issues.
Do you optimize cpu cooling at the expense of graphics card and motherboard vrm cooling?
Add to that that aio coolers do not last forever. In time air intrudes and they must be replaced.

Thank you for thorough reply.
I just think that the price almost the same, but liquid will be much better. Budget is not a problem.
I thought that i7 would be more "longliving" without upgrade.
I dont really want mini / compact size cases. I have enough space and middle/full tower can give me more abilities for future. (this new LianLi will come to my region only in month or two tho)

What is your prospective Z690 motherboard?

Good question that doesnt have an answer yet. Suppose it will be my next headache.

Do you optimize cpu cooling at the expense of graphics card and motherboard vrm cooling?

No and i dont really understand what do you mean.

Add to that that aio coolers do not last forever. In time air intrudes and they must be replaced.

Didnt know about that. What time: year, two or more? My biggest fear was a leakage but some products reliable enough afaik.

 

[geofelt]

Normally, a aio cooler is not a problem.
On occasion, they do leak with disastrous consequences.
Google aio leak and look at images.
I would not worry particularly about that.
aio does not necessarily cool better than a good air cooler.
AIO cooling is essentially air cooling, the difference is where the heat exchange takes place. A 280 aio will have two radiators of about 140mm in size.
That is the equivalent of the two 140mm radiators on a noctua NH-D15.
They will cool about the same.
If you need truly aggressive cooling, then a 360 aio and a suitable case would be in order. Better to use those funds for a stronger cpu in the first place and let it loaf.

The coolant lines on an aio will admit some air over time. I might expect 5 years before there is sufficient to cause a problem.
More likely, the pump which is a mechanical device would fail or become clogged with debris first.

Mounting an aio radiator is a catch 22 thing.
If you mount the radiator in front, drawing in fresh air, your cpu will be cooled best.
But the heated radiator air will be used to cool the gpu.
And, with today's strong processors, the motherboard vrm coolers need to be cooled also.
OTOH, if you mount the radiator on top, exhausting heat out of the case, the motherboard and vrm's will be cooled best, but the cpu will be using heated case air and will not cool the cpu best.

On motherboard selection, most any Z690 will do the job.
Your main decision will be a DDR4 or a DDR5 board.
Performance is essentially the same.
Some will have wifi options which cost perhaps $25 more.
Enthusiast motherboards will be slightly better at overclocking and might have better sound. If sound might be an issue, try your onboard sound first. If you need better, then you can buy a discrete sound card later.

It is too bad that there are few MATX Z690 motherboards. After all, how many expansion slots do you really need? MATX has 4 ATX has 7.

If budget is not a problem, why not buy a i9-12900K in the first place?
Under the same load, it should run faster and no hotter than lesser chips.

I might reiterate my suggestion of the lian li O11 mini.
It is similar to the O11 air.
Lian li makes high quality cases.
The mini is probably mis named. It is a full ATX case that is a bit wider than most so it can accomodate any tall air cooler. it is also a bit shorter. It would have been my choice except for lacking a 5.25 front bay which I wanted.

 

[JacPoison]

If you need truly aggressive cooling, then a 360 aio and a suitable case would be in order. Better to use those funds for a stronger cpu in the first place and let it loaf.

Yeah, and i'm looking at Arctic 360 as a better price–performance ratio. It's just $13 difference with 280 and $25 with NH-D15.

Mounting an aio radiator is a catch 22 thing.
If you mount the radiator in front, drawing in fresh air, your cpu will be cooled best.
But the heated radiator air will be used to cool the gpu.
And, with today's strong processors, the motherboard vrm coolers need to be cooled also.
OTOH, if you mount the radiator on top, exhausting heat out of the case, the motherboard and vrm's will be cooled best, but the cpu will be using heated case air and will not cool the cpu best.

Afaik the top mounting is preferred. At least GamersNexus claims exactly that.

On motherboard selection, most any Z690 will do the job.
Your main decision will be a DDR4 or a DDR5 board.
Performance is essentially the same.
Some will have wifi options which cost perhaps $25 more.
Enthusiast motherboards will be slightly better at overclocking and might have better sound. If sound might be an issue, try your onboard sound first. If you need better, then you can buy a discrete sound card later.

It is too bad that there are few MATX Z690 motherboards. After all, how many expansion slots do you really need? MATX has 4 ATX has 7.

Because of high price and a lack of DDR5 on market now, i'm not sure it is the good idea, so i tend to buy DDR4 board.
What is MATX for, if i can buy standart size ATX? It will be better anyway.
Enthusiast motherboards for $650-$800 are definitely not my choice, i've never done overclock before and i wll do it once just for better performance, but wifi, enjoyable sound etc is what i'm looking for. I suppose something like MSI MAG Z690 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 will be nice.

If budget is not a problem, why not buy a i9-12900K in the first place?
Under the same load, it should run faster and no hotter than lesser chips.

12900k is ~$220 more expensive and thats huge. Wanted to spend about $850 for CPU+board.
Budget is not a problem in terms of case and cooling. The difference between the cheapest and the most expensive case is about $140

I might reiterate my suggestion of the lian li O11 mini.
It is similar to the O11 air.
Lian li makes high quality cases.
The mini is probably mis named. It is a full ATX case that is a bit wider than most so it can accomodate any tall air cooler. it is also a bit shorter. It would have been my choice except for lacking a 5.25 front bay which I wanted.

I know that it is good case, watched few reviews, but it is not on sale on my region yet and will appear in mid-january or more likely february. Dont want to wait for it.

 

[geofelt]

I have been doing some re-evaluating of my setup.
Under load, using cpu-Z bench, my temperatures on about 4 cores get to 100c. I assume those cores are throttling, but there is no cpu failure.
Perhaps a longer test might show something.
I then looked at how 240 aio coolers might make a difference.
I found this article which compared a NH-U12A to 5 top end aio coolers:

Noctua NH-U12A Versus Five High End Closed Loop Liquid Coolers

We are comparing the Noctua NH-U12A against five high end closed loop coolers. Noctua's NH-U12A will be tested against the Corsair H100i Pro, Corsair H150i Pro, NZXT Kraken X63, Cooler Master ML240 V2, and Thermaltake TH240.

www.relaxedtech.com

Essentially the same performance.
But, the big difference is in the noise level. The top aio coolers have fans that run at a very high noise level.
The NH-U12a is a compact cooler with a noctua cooling performance rating of 169.

Noctua NH-U12A Versus Five High End Closed Loop Liquid Coolers

We are comparing the Noctua NH-U12A against five high end closed loop coolers. Noctua's NH-U12A will be tested against the Corsair H100i Pro, Corsair H150i Pro, NZXT Kraken X63, Cooler Master ML240 V2, and Thermaltake TH240.

www.relaxedtech.com

Essentially the same as mu NH-D15s at 167.
The only better cooler is the NH-D15 at 189.
The change is too small for me to be worth it.
But, if you are looking for a top air cooler and value quiet, the NH-D15 is the one to get.
There are a few caveats. It requires 167mm, low profile ram, and a check to verify that your motherboard pcie sli slot is not to close.
Potential issues that the NH-D15s does not have.

Here is a review comparison of a 360 aio and the NH-D15:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEjm2fZyaeI



On the motherboard, I use a msi Z690-A pro DDR4 wifi with which I am perfectly happy.
It is one of the lower priced Z690 motherboards.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144488

I would agree with using ddr4 today.
DDR5 ram costs about 2xx and the offered latencies are not that good.
In time, that will change.
Your first objective with ram is to buy enough.

If you have case space issues, MATX size is good and they usually cost less. A moot point since there are few announced.

 

[JacPoison]

I have been doing some re-evaluating of my setup.
Under load, using cpu-Z bench, my temperatures on about 4 cores get to 100c. I assume those cores are throttling, but there is no cpu failure.
Perhaps a longer test might show something.
I then looked at how 240 aio coolers might make a difference.
I found this article which compared a NH-U12A to 5 top end aio coolers:

Noctua NH-U12A Versus Five High End Closed Loop Liquid Coolers

We are comparing the Noctua NH-U12A against five high end closed loop coolers. Noctua's NH-U12A will be tested against the Corsair H100i Pro, Corsair H150i Pro, NZXT Kraken X63, Cooler Master ML240 V2, and Thermaltake TH240.

www.relaxedtech.com

Essentially the same performance.
But, the big difference is in the noise level. The top aio coolers have fans that run at a very high noise level.
The NH-U12a is a compact cooler with a noctua cooling performance rating of 169.

Noctua NH-U12A Versus Five High End Closed Loop Liquid Coolers

We are comparing the Noctua NH-U12A against five high end closed loop coolers. Noctua's NH-U12A will be tested against the Corsair H100i Pro, Corsair H150i Pro, NZXT Kraken X63, Cooler Master ML240 V2, and Thermaltake TH240.

www.relaxedtech.com

Essentially the same as mu NH-D15s at 167.
The only better cooler is the NH-D15 at 189.
The change is too small for me to be worth it.
But, if you are looking for a top air cooler and value quiet, the NH-D15 is the one to get.
There are a few caveats. It requires 167mm, low profile ram, and a check to verify that your motherboard pcie sli slot is not to close.
Potential issues that the NH-D15s does not have.

Here is a review comparison of a 360 aio and the NH-D15:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEjm2fZyaeI



On the motherboard, I use a msi Z690-A pro DDR4 wifi with which I am perfectly happy.
It is one of the lower priced Z690 motherboards.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144488

I would agree with using ddr4 today.
DDR5 ram costs about 2xx and the offered latencies are not that good.
In time, that will change.
Your first objective with ram is to buy enough.

If you have case space issues, MATX size is good and they usually cost less. A moot point since there are few announced.

Dunno friend, GamersNexus had very nice reviews and impressions about AFL 360 and Galahad AIO, but i'll think about it.
As for the board, I decided to buy MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4 with i7-12700k, found a good price.

If you have case space issues, MATX size is good and they usually cost less. A moot point since there are few announced.

Thats why I'm choosing mid or full-tower - to avoid "case space issues" Thinking between (still of many):

-LianLi PC-011 Dynamic \ Dynamic XL
-Fractal Design Meshify 2 / 2 XL ; Torrent (out of stock for a weeks tho)
-Phanteks Eclipse P500A / Enthoo Pro 2 TG RGB

Corsair and bequiet! cases not in my list anymore

Damn, I chose a woman to live with faster