[SOLVED] (Low-spec) Is going from 2 to 4 cores but lower clock speed better for gaming?

[smmm]

I've gone through this a couple times before about upgrading this particular computer, a Dell Inspiron 580. When I was reading the Dell forum, I found new information that the Intel Core i5 760 was compatible with this PC. It currently has a i3 550. The i3 is 2 cores at 3.2 GHz, and the i5 760 is 4 cores at 2.8 GHz.

My question is that would the i5 760 give me any gaming performance increase because it's a quad-core, and how much does the clock speed decrease from the i3 impact performance?

Specifically, how much would this impact CPU-dependent games, if at all?

I know I can build a new solid budget gaming PC for cheap, but I already have a gaming PC and was wondering if this inexpensive used CPU could bolster my secondary system.

Thanks!

 

[smmm]

If you are gonna dremel, make a hole for a fan.

Like a circular hole to mount a fan to the side panel? Also I don't think that this mobo has an extra fan plug.

 

[smmm]

Could I use a splitter like this?

 

[bmockeg]

You can or you can get a fan to molex connector to plug into the PSU.

 

[Third-Eye]

It's an Inspiron 580.

I should have asked if it was a mid-tower or a slim desktop. A mid-tower should be able to fit a 92mm tower cooler. If it's a slim case, you would need to get something like these three coolers that should all be good for around 120-140watts tdp.
https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-shadow-rock-lp-bk002/p/13C-001F-00006
https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-geminii-m5-led/p/13C-000X-002F2
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16835608029

 

[smmm]

I should have asked if it was a mid-tower or a slim desktop. A mid-tower should be able to fit a 92mm tower cooler. If it's a slim case, you would need to get something like these three coolers that should all be good for around 120-140watts tdp.
https://www.newegg.com/be-quiet-shadow-rock-lp-bk002/p/13C-001F-00006
https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master-geminii-m5-led/p/13C-000X-002F2
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16835608029

Oh yep it’s a mid tower. Thanks!

 

[mitch074]

drilling a hole on the panel in front of the CPU cooler is a good idea, but don't simply mount a fan on it - put some mesh and/or a dust filter. This kind of cooler sucks air in, so you'd have to mount an intake fan on the case, and that causes a lot of dust to get in. Said dust then makes the CPU cooler lose a lot of efficiency very fast.
Managing airflow in a case is tricky - I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but adding a disruption in the existing airflow can have dramatic effect : in your case, make sure that all places that got airflow before you cut it open do still get some afterwards.

 

[smmm]

drilling a hole on the panel in front of the CPU cooler is a good idea, but don't simply mount a fan on it - put some mesh and/or a dust filter. This kind of cooler sucks air in, so you'd have to mount an intake fan on the case, and that causes a lot of dust to get in. Said dust then makes the CPU cooler lose a lot of efficiency very fast.
Managing airflow in a case is tricky - I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but adding a disruption in the existing airflow can have dramatic effect : in your case, make sure that all places that got airflow before you cut it open do still get some afterwards.

Good point, I will take that into account.

 

[smmm]

Would perforated metal with small holes work as a sort of dust filter instead of an actual one? I'm trying to spend the least money possible and I can get this type of metal for cheap out of the scrap bin. I know it wouldn't be as good as the real thing, but would it help to reduce dust at all?

 

[bmockeg]

Would perforated metal with small holes work as a sort of dust filter instead of an actual one? I'm trying to spend the least money possible and I can get this type of metal for cheap out of the scrap bin. I know it wouldn't be as good as the real thing, but would it help to reduce dust at all?

No, I wouldn’t worry about dust as long as you keep an eye on it and keep it cleaned out.

 

[Third-Eye]

I wouldn't drill or cut any holes in the case when all that is needed for the CPU replacement is an $18 Gammaxx 200T 92mm tower CPU cooler. The case should already have enough vent holes to bring in cool air.

 

[mitch074]

Would perforated metal with small holes work as a sort of dust filter instead of an actual one? I'm trying to spend the least money possible and I can get this type of metal for cheap out of the scrap bin. I know it wouldn't be as good as the real thing, but would it help to reduce dust at all?

Not really - cut it wide, you can use a coffee filter as air filter. I get you wanting to keep spendings at a minimum considering your system's age.

 

[smmm]

Not really - cut it wide, you can use a coffee filter as air filter. I get you wanting to keep spendings at a minimum considering your system's age.

That's a good idea.

 

[smmm]

Alright so I got the i5 and installed it in the system with the stock cooler. My displayport to VGA adapter wasn't working, so I switched to using DVI-I to VGA instead. When it booted up, Windows was abnormally slow, and I had no sleep option from the little power icon. This CPU did show up correctly in HWinfo. I ran a game that was previously easy for the dual core to run, and it got horrible unplayable FPS, which logically shouldn't happen. To solve these problems, I erased the hard drive and did a clean install of Windows 10. This fixed it: my sleep button was there, FPS on the game was a good step up from the dual core, and windows seems to be back to its normal slow speed.

Using MSI Afterburner, in easy to run games the CPU didn't get much above 50 degrees. In demanding games waay out of this computer's performance range, the GPU was pinned and 99%, strangely the CPU was barely being utilized, not even close to 100%, and the 4 GB of system memory was also pinned at around 3800 MB or more. The max CPU temp I saw in this scenario was 65 degrees with the stock cooler.

Is the RAM holding this CPU back in harder to run games?

As for turbo boosting, Afterburner only ever reported a max clock speed of 2962 MHz. This CPU is supposed to go up to 3.3 GHz, so why isn't it boosting?

 

[bmockeg]

Alright so I got the i5 and installed it in the system with the stock cooler. My displayport to VGA adapter wasn't working, so I switched to using DVI-I to VGA instead. When it booted up, Windows was abnormally slow, and I had no sleep option from the little power icon. This CPU did show up correctly in HWinfo. I ran a game that was previously easy for the dual core to run, and it got horrible unplayable FPS, which logically shouldn't happen. To solve these problems, I erased the hard drive and did a clean install of Windows 10. This fixed it: my sleep button was there, FPS on the game was a good step up from the dual core, and windows seems to be back to it's normal slow speed.

Using MSI Afterburner, in easy to run games the CPU didn't get much above 50 degrees. In demanding games waay out of this computer's performance range, the GPU was pinned and 99%, strangely the CPU was barely being utilized, not even close to 100%, and the 4 GB of system memory was also pinned at around 3800 MB or more. The max CPU temp I saw in this scenario was 65 degrees with the stock cooler.

Is the RAM holding this CPU back in harder to run games?

As for turbo boosting, Afterburner only ever reported a max clock speed of 2962 MHz. This CPU is supposed to go up to 3.3 GHz, so why isn't it boosting?

Wow 4GB? 8GB is usually the bare minimum and most people run 16GB now.

 

[smmm]

Wow 4GB? 8GB is usually the bare minimum and most people run 16GB now.

Yeah I know. I've done a post previously about getting new RAM into it, but I wasn't sure if it was compatible with 4x 2 GB or 2x 4 GB, and if it needed something specific from Crucial, which doesn't sell for the Inspiron 580 anymore. If I knew it would be compatible, I'd probably get something like this G.Skill kit.

So do you think the RAM is bottlenecking the PC in gaming, judging by the low CPU usage and high RAM usage?

 

[bmockeg]

Yeah I know. I've done a post previously about getting new RAM into it, but I wasn't sure if it was compatible with 4x 2 GB or 2x 4 GB, and if it needed something specific from Crucial, which doesn't sell for the Inspiron 580 anymore. If I knew it would be compatible, I'd probably get something like this G.Skill kit.

So do you think the RAM is bottlenecking the PC in gaming, judging by the low CPU usage and high RAM usage?

I’d get more RAM for sure. Mixing RAM is always a gamble. Probably best off getting a new 2x4 kit, Gskill should be fine.

 

[smmm]

I’d get more RAM for sure. Mixing RAM is always a gamble. Probably best off getting a new 2x4 kit, Gskill should be fine.

Ok cool thanks. To clarify, is the RAM holding back the full performance of the CPU in higher-end games? That's what it seems like to me based on the info from Afterburner.

 

[Karadjgne]

Yes and no. Ram size is limited to not just the ram itself. Windows will portion out part of the HDD with pagefile, so when you start getting close to physical ram limits, you'll end up using the HDD as additional ram. That's seriously going to put a dent in fps as ram is over 5x faster than a HDD.
If you are already hitting 3800 used, then pagefile is already using additional HDD space. So yes, ram is holding you back.

Gpu is also holding you back, I'd suggest lowering some of the post processes like grass detail, lighting, shadows, AA etc. You won't see much if any difference, but the gpu will.

Usage is different from what ppl normally imagine it is. A cpu will always run at its best ability, 100%. If it can pre-render 100 frames per second, that's what it'll give you. Usage is the amount of resources used to get that 100% ability, so on lighter demand games, it'll be lower, in heavy demand games it'll be higher. If a game code string going through a thread/core is only 100bits long, and there's enough bandwidth to handle 1000bits, cpu is 10% usage. But that string is still shoved through as fast as the cpu can manage it.

Turbo is a factory OC. To that end, it's got to also balance against stock included coolers and the TDP rating of the cpu, 95w. So the 3.3GHz rating is only for 1 core. At 2 core usage, it'll be 3.2GHz, 3 cores is 3.1GHz and all 4 cores is 3.0GHz. Locking all 4 cores at max turbo will put serious amounts of wattage, well over @ 120w, on the cpu which is far beyond the capacity of any of the lga1156 stock cooling, and far beyond the factory set TDP of 95w.

 

[smmm]

Yes and no. Ram size is limited to not just the ram itself. Windows will portion out part of the HDD with pagefile, so when you start getting close to physical ram limits, you'll end up using the HDD as additional ram. That's seriously going to put a dent in fps as ram is over 5x faster than a HDD.
If you are already hitting 3800 used, then pagefile is already using additional HDD space. So yes, ram is holding you back.

Gpu is also holding you back, I'd suggest lowering some of the post processes like grass detail, lighting, shadows, AA etc. You won't see much if any difference, but the gpu will.

Usage is different from what ppl normally imagine it is. A cpu will always run at its best ability, 100%. If it can pre-render 100 frames per second, that's what it'll give you. Usage is the amount of resources used to get that 100% ability, so on lighter demand games, it'll be lower, in heavy demand games it'll be higher. If a game code string going through a thread/core is only 100bits long, and there's enough bandwidth to handle 1000bits, cpu is 10% usage. But that string is still shoved through as fast as the cpu can manage it.

Turbo is a factory OC. To that end, it's got to also balance against stock included coolers and the TDP rating of the cpu, 95w. So the 3.3GHz rating is only for 1 core. At 2 core usage, it'll be 3.2GHz, 3 cores is 3.1GHz and all 4 cores is 3.0GHz. Locking all 4 cores at max turbo will put serious amounts of wattage, well over @ 120w, on the cpu which is far beyond the capacity of any of the lga1156 stock cooling, and far beyond the factory set TDP of 95w.

Really good to know, thanks very much! I think what you're saying is that since I'm using all 4 cores, they're turboing to only 3.0 GHz (2962 MHz for me), is that correct?

 

[Karadjgne]

Yep. That's a standard for pretty much every cpu with turbo all the way upto the i9 9900k. It's only the i9 9900ks (special) that doesn't as it's an all core locked turbo.

 

[smmm]

Yep. That's a standard for pretty much every cpu with turbo all the way upto the i9 9900k. It's only the i9 9900ks (special) that doesn't as it's an all core locked turbo.

So then getting a better cooler wouldn't allow me to get higher speeds? If so I don't think there's a reason to get a better cooler as my temps seem to be ok, I'd rather put my money into RAM.
Thanks.

 

[Karadjgne]

The only way you'll see higher than 3.0GHz is if the bios allows you to lock/change turbo settings or manually dictate the maximum core speeds. That's called OverClocking. OC requires better cooling because it uses more power overall than what Intel intended.

But speeds isn't everything. Hdd contains the data. Sends it to the ram, which holds it until the cpu demands certain files, which the ram then ships to the cpu. Ram being a temporary cache.

It's like if you wanted to throw some rocks. You pick up a rock in each hand, throw one, transfer the second, throw the second. Hdd would be the pile, ram your hands, cpu the throw . If you want to throw many rocks, more than 2, it's as if you stuffed your pockets and had to take the time to dig them out. That's pagefile. It might take you 1 second to throw 1 rock, and you can do that all day, so 60 rocks in 60 seconds, but if you have to dig in your pockets for rocks, that's going to affect how many rocks hit the target in 60 seconds. Might be 30 instead. You are physically throwing the rock just as fast, just as hard as needed, but with fewer rocks to throw, the target doesn't get hit as much as it could.

Having more ram than used would be like having 8 hands, 2 picking rocks from the pile, 2 transferring, and 3 scratching your.... as it feels good and aren't doing anything useful atm.

So cpu speed isn't everything, especially when other factors mean the cpu isn't fed as many rocks as it can throw.

 

[smmm]

The only way you'll see higher than 3.0GHz is if the bios allows you to lock/change turbo settings or manually dictate the maximum core speeds. That's called OverClocking. OC requires better cooling because it uses more power overall than what Intel intended.

But speeds isn't everything. Hdd contains the data. Sends it to the ram, which holds it until the cpu demands certain files, which the ram then ships to the cpu. Ram being a temporary cache.

It's like if you wanted to throw some rocks. You pick up a rock in each hand, throw one, transfer the second, throw the second. Hdd would be the pile, ram your hands, cpu the throw . If you want to throw many rocks, more than 2, it's as if you stuffed your pockets and had to take the time to dig them out. That's pagefile. It might take you 1 second to throw 1 rock, and you can do that all day, so 60 rocks in 60 seconds, but if you have to dig in your pockets for rocks, that's going to affect how many rocks hit the target in 60 seconds. Might be 30 instead. You are physically throwing the rock just as fast, just as hard as needed, but with fewer rocks to throw, the target doesn't get hit as much as it could.

Having more ram than used would be like having 8 hands, 2 picking rocks from the pile, 2 transferring, and 3 scratching your.... as it feels good and aren't doing anything useful atm.

So cpu speed isn't everything, especially when other factors mean the cpu isn't fed as many rocks as it can throw.

Good analogy haha, you made it easy to understand. It's a Dell mobo so no overclocking options there. I think I'll look into getting 8 GB of RAM in that case. Thanks!

 

[smmm]

Alright final update: I've been busy with the holidays so I haven't been able to get around to this, but the 8 GB of memory is in and working awesome! I went with 4x 2 GB from Crucial to be on the safe side, and it works great. It's massively improved FPS in some games that were bottlenecked. Thanks for everyone's help!