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Travis Beane
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- Aug 6, 2010
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I dislike Razer products (I want a refund!), but this controller interests me.
But I must ask, does it have the same level of accuracy/deadzones on the analogs, are the buttons as smooth, is it the same weight, is the controller easier to grip (for those of us with sweaty hands), or are all those factors improved?
Some people don't care (my roommate hated playing L4D2 on my PC with a xbox 360 controller, apparently the 100FPS max settings with vertical sync just isn't as smooth as his 26FPS 1080i xbox).
People like me do care. I stopped using my joystick and went to mouse/keyboard in BFBC2 for flying because the joystick was a real piece.
But I must ask, does it have the same level of accuracy/deadzones on the analogs, are the buttons as smooth, is it the same weight, is the controller easier to grip (for those of us with sweaty hands), or are all those factors improved?
Some people don't care (my roommate hated playing L4D2 on my PC with a xbox 360 controller, apparently the 100FPS max settings with vertical sync just isn't as smooth as his 26FPS 1080i xbox).
People like me do care. I stopped using my joystick and went to mouse/keyboard in BFBC2 for flying because the joystick was a real piece.
[citation][nom]shin0bi272[/nom]I'd like to point out that there have been keyboards with macros that you could program for years now and on top of that if youre a pro gamer any edge you can get that's not a cheat or exploit in the game should be legal. MGS should evolve with the times rather than be bigots and/or purists.[/citation]
so i have to buy this just to keep up with everyone else on XBL? great. sounds like a cheat, exploit, and workaround to me. how bout instead of buying a controller to "pwne" just get good at the game. same with wireless haters, how hard is it to change batteries? if one can tell the latency Diff. they have the sight of a fighter pilot. "hardcore gamers" are a joke.
so i have to buy this just to keep up with everyone else on XBL? great. sounds like a cheat, exploit, and workaround to me. how bout instead of buying a controller to "pwne" just get good at the game. same with wireless haters, how hard is it to change batteries? if one can tell the latency Diff. they have the sight of a fighter pilot. "hardcore gamers" are a joke.
jamesedgeuk2000
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- Jul 21, 2009
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AlienIsGOD
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- May 3, 2008
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[citation][nom]jamesedgeuk2000[/nom]er, what the hell is the MLG? lol, I doubt razer will lose too much sleep over this[/citation]
Major League Gaming
Major League Gaming
phoenixrage
Distinguished
- Apr 21, 2010
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majority the kids I see on XBL with "MLG" in their gamer tag/clan tag or gamer pic end up running some sort of modded controller or hack. Hopefully MLG starts pushing more on the "fair play" side of things.
IDK about MLG still... they still feel a bit amateurish compared to when CAL and CPL were in their prime. MLG also seems to be connected to allot of politics and show favoritism toward certain people, teams, and companies.
But about the controller seriously I can get the same result on a computer and make it to ware no one will be the wiser. I can also mod out a controller to do whatever I want. My latest creation was a quick fire tap trigger that didn’t have the travel of the trigger before activation. So you can send a hail of bullets in someone's direction. But it looks like a regular controller enough to pass any inspection… On the wired and wireless bit, if your sporting some of the latest wireless tech. The latency is so minimal it’s really not that big of a factor. Take this into account: with LCD monitors around 2ms response (most people have around 5ms LED TVs are about 10+ms), on average a lan connection has about 2-5ms (depending on if it needs to be routed), the possessing time of the computer, and if it needs to retrieve/write data from the hard drive that’s about 3-16ms (older platter disks). That’s only client side to the server will have to process everything and send it back out. If you factor all that in then a good wireless mouse has about 1-2 ms response it’s really a small amount of lag. Even the best wired mice have a 1 ms response. What you see on the monitor/ TV is old by its response and the numbers there are from the computer to the server not to another client connected to the server. Also please don’t get caught with saying a console doesn’t have all that…because you wouldn’t believe how many people say that…
But about the controller seriously I can get the same result on a computer and make it to ware no one will be the wiser. I can also mod out a controller to do whatever I want. My latest creation was a quick fire tap trigger that didn’t have the travel of the trigger before activation. So you can send a hail of bullets in someone's direction. But it looks like a regular controller enough to pass any inspection… On the wired and wireless bit, if your sporting some of the latest wireless tech. The latency is so minimal it’s really not that big of a factor. Take this into account: with LCD monitors around 2ms response (most people have around 5ms LED TVs are about 10+ms), on average a lan connection has about 2-5ms (depending on if it needs to be routed), the possessing time of the computer, and if it needs to retrieve/write data from the hard drive that’s about 3-16ms (older platter disks). That’s only client side to the server will have to process everything and send it back out. If you factor all that in then a good wireless mouse has about 1-2 ms response it’s really a small amount of lag. Even the best wired mice have a 1 ms response. What you see on the monitor/ TV is old by its response and the numbers there are from the computer to the server not to another client connected to the server. Also please don’t get caught with saying a console doesn’t have all that…because you wouldn’t believe how many people say that…
zaznet
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- May 10, 2010
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[citation][nom]JD13[/nom]How's that to stop people who already have modded their stock controller with a turbo chip?[/citation]
Read the article, it does talk about other modded controllers and since they have to give up one of their buttons for that feature it has a trade off effect.
It's also in the rules that using a modded controller would result in you being banned from competition. It's a matter of someone being able to identify that your controller was modded.
Read the article, it does talk about other modded controllers and since they have to give up one of their buttons for that feature it has a trade off effect.
It's also in the rules that using a modded controller would result in you being banned from competition. It's a matter of someone being able to identify that your controller was modded.
The deal with wireless vs Wired doesn't really matter. If there is even the tiniest difference, you're going to use them in a competitive event.
Look at modern sport and Olympic games. Every thing they do is designed to shave off hundredths of a second. Every little bit counts.
Sure the human response time is not that fast, but if you're close enough, that tiny bit might be enough to let you react in time. Who goes home with the gold medal? The person who said "eh... this is good enough." or the person who fought tooth and nail for every tiny bit of ground, every inch, and really gave it their super best?
Weither you spend half a year designing a regulation bobsled that gives you .05 seconds better speed, or using wired vs wireless, its all the same. If a modification its deemed unfair, the governing body deems it "not regulation" that simple.
Though outside regulated competition, feel free to use what you want, but don't cry if people play to win. But still obey the rules of the competition you're in (ie: cheaters suck).
Look at modern sport and Olympic games. Every thing they do is designed to shave off hundredths of a second. Every little bit counts.
Sure the human response time is not that fast, but if you're close enough, that tiny bit might be enough to let you react in time. Who goes home with the gold medal? The person who said "eh... this is good enough." or the person who fought tooth and nail for every tiny bit of ground, every inch, and really gave it their super best?
Weither you spend half a year designing a regulation bobsled that gives you .05 seconds better speed, or using wired vs wireless, its all the same. If a modification its deemed unfair, the governing body deems it "not regulation" that simple.
Though outside regulated competition, feel free to use what you want, but don't cry if people play to win. But still obey the rules of the competition you're in (ie: cheaters suck).
LCD tv or monitor response isn't the same as input lag. I think most LCD tv's have something like +100 ms input lag, where as most monitors are at 10-20 ms. Good NT panel monitors have 0-10, the new 120 hz monitors have 0-2 ms input lag
input lag = input lag compared to CRT
CPL was like professional robbery. They didn't pay prize money to competitors. They had something like: If you speak shit about CPL, CPL isn't liable to pay prize money for you.
Not word from word, but thats how their rules worked. Dunno how that can be even legal.
Players couldn't tell that CPL wasn't paying them. Or if they told, CPL just didn't pay.
Some other organisations have not payed players their prize money either ESWC for one. But atleast now the new owners paid the players who won money earlier this year.
My take on Razer: Just like they advertise them selves with that "unfair advantage".
I think some of their products, mainly keyboards are more like hardware cheat rather than good quality product for gaming.
I wouldn't allow the use of their macro keyboards for competitive RTS or something alike that requires alot of keyboard clicking. Friend of mine said that this is sort of issue with fighting games on pc.
input lag = input lag compared to CRT
CPL was like professional robbery. They didn't pay prize money to competitors. They had something like: If you speak shit about CPL, CPL isn't liable to pay prize money for you.
Not word from word, but thats how their rules worked. Dunno how that can be even legal.
Players couldn't tell that CPL wasn't paying them. Or if they told, CPL just didn't pay.
Some other organisations have not payed players their prize money either ESWC for one. But atleast now the new owners paid the players who won money earlier this year.
My take on Razer: Just like they advertise them selves with that "unfair advantage".
I think some of their products, mainly keyboards are more like hardware cheat rather than good quality product for gaming.
I wouldn't allow the use of their macro keyboards for competitive RTS or something alike that requires alot of keyboard clicking. Friend of mine said that this is sort of issue with fighting games on pc.
Supertrek32
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- Nov 13, 2008
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Edit: The site ate the second half of my comment! Fixed now...
[citation][nom]bonezy[/nom]A couple of things: I wouldn't want to fumble around with batteries in mid-match. It might even pause certain games in a tournament round because of dead batteries, and you'd piss off everyone, and probably disqualify you as well.[/citation]
Did you even read what I said? I said anyone with half a brain would put a new pair of batteries in their controller before an important game. If your controller eats a fresh pair of batteries in less than 15 minutes, you've probably got bigger problems.
[citation][nom]bonezy[/nom]Secondly, I'm sorry if you can't feel wireless delay. I've tried 6+ different wireless mice and about 20+ wireless controllers (from PS1 onward), and for the most part the lag is noticeable. Sure, the MS 360 one is better than most, but as a tournament Street Fighter Alpha 1/2/3, MSH, MVC 1/2, SF3:TS and CS:S player, let me tell you that I will prefer wired 9 times out of 10.So before you spout terms such as 'humanly noticeable', please be sure to do research on humans other than yourself.[/citation]
The controller's designed for <4ms of latency. Independent measurements have shown that, for your average Joe sitting ~5m away, it's under 2ms. That's completely negligible and is, for all intents and purposes, basically undetectable. Your TV parsing the image will add more lag than your controller will. And before you go spouting about research, why don't you just google "Is 360 wireless controller lag noticeable?" Hell, the first result is an MLG post citing a 1.78MS lag time on wireless controllers.
Noticing a 2ms difference isn't humanly possible. The old knee-tap reaction test? 30 ms delay. Minimum time to be able to recognize an echo? 20 ms. 2MS? It's like lighting a firecracker 2nm from your ear/eyes, then saying you could tell the difference between seeing and hearing it.
As far as your experience with wireless goes, it sound likes either A) you haven't used current-day wireless controllers much (all PS1/2 controllers?), or B) (more likely) you're playing in an environment with a lot of interference.
[citation][nom]bonezy[/nom]A couple of things: I wouldn't want to fumble around with batteries in mid-match. It might even pause certain games in a tournament round because of dead batteries, and you'd piss off everyone, and probably disqualify you as well.[/citation]
Did you even read what I said? I said anyone with half a brain would put a new pair of batteries in their controller before an important game. If your controller eats a fresh pair of batteries in less than 15 minutes, you've probably got bigger problems.
[citation][nom]bonezy[/nom]Secondly, I'm sorry if you can't feel wireless delay. I've tried 6+ different wireless mice and about 20+ wireless controllers (from PS1 onward), and for the most part the lag is noticeable. Sure, the MS 360 one is better than most, but as a tournament Street Fighter Alpha 1/2/3, MSH, MVC 1/2, SF3:TS and CS:S player, let me tell you that I will prefer wired 9 times out of 10.So before you spout terms such as 'humanly noticeable', please be sure to do research on humans other than yourself.[/citation]
The controller's designed for <4ms of latency. Independent measurements have shown that, for your average Joe sitting ~5m away, it's under 2ms. That's completely negligible and is, for all intents and purposes, basically undetectable. Your TV parsing the image will add more lag than your controller will. And before you go spouting about research, why don't you just google "Is 360 wireless controller lag noticeable?" Hell, the first result is an MLG post citing a 1.78MS lag time on wireless controllers.
Noticing a 2ms difference isn't humanly possible. The old knee-tap reaction test? 30 ms delay. Minimum time to be able to recognize an echo? 20 ms. 2MS? It's like lighting a firecracker 2nm from your ear/eyes, then saying you could tell the difference between seeing and hearing it.
As far as your experience with wireless goes, it sound likes either A) you haven't used current-day wireless controllers much (all PS1/2 controllers?), or B) (more likely) you're playing in an environment with a lot of interference.
getochkn
Polypheme
- Jul 2, 2006
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You can install the intesifire rapid fire mod which uses the sync button in a short press to turn on and off the mod, and I'm sure it could be adapted to a wired controller or someone could program a PIC chip to allow you to say use a two button combo to turn on the rapid fire, or a long button press to turn it on, etc, etc. There is a million ways to stealth something in a normal controller.
enforcer22
Distinguished
- Sep 10, 2006
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[citation][nom]fyasko[/nom]so i have to buy this just to keep up with everyone else on XBL? great. sounds like a cheat, exploit, and workaround to me. how bout instead of buying a controller to "pwne" just get good at the game. same with wireless haters, how hard is it to change batteries? if one can tell the latency Diff. they have the sight of a fighter pilot. "hardcore gamers" are a joke.[/citation]
With modern RF alot of well made devices do not have this lag. But there is this thing called the placebo effect. If you belive its happening, You make it happen even if its not.
With modern RF alot of well made devices do not have this lag. But there is this thing called the placebo effect. If you belive its happening, You make it happen even if its not.
Well thats stupid people can use something like joy to key to do the exact same thing. With joy to key every button becomes programmable.
I understand why the MLG banned it, but expecting Razer to make a separate controller just to appease their regulations is asking a lot for little. Few aside from the MLG would take the version without the macro buttons and after every MLG hopeful had bought one, the controllers would simple be dead weight that Razer would likely lose money off of.
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