News Massive Dell blunder leaks Intel and Nvidia's mobile roadmaps — Nova Lake, Panther Lake CPUs and GENxx Nvidia GPUs listed

[Admin]

A new Dell roadmap for its XPS laptops has shown off a plethora of supposed launch dates for Intel's four future CPU architectures, including Lunar Lake, Panther Lake and Nova Lake.

Massive Dell blunder leaks Intel and Nvidia's mobile roadmaps — Nova Lake, Panther Lake CPUs and GENxx Nvidia GPUs listed : Read more

 

[NeoMorpheus]

DOJ needs to revisit Dell and Intel…

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

Arrow Lake is in a very confusing state right now. Obviously, Dell's roadmap confirms that It will appear in the mobile market. However, most of the information we've heard about it concerns its desktop Arrow Lake-S adaptation.

What's so confusing about Arrow Lake ? There have been several entries and leaks about Mobile Arrow Lake parts in the past 1 year or so.

The lineup will include the following: Arrow Lake-U, Arrow Lake-P, and Arrow Lake-H chips.

The laptop chips, Arrow Lake-H, will be featuring the slightly updated Xe-LPG+ architecture known as Alchemist+ while the desktop chips, Arrow Lake-S, will be using the same Arc Alchemist architecture we got with Meteor Lake.

8 Xe-Core iGPU with 128 Execution units, a clock speed of 2.00 GHz, and 8 MB of L2 cache. This chip was running on the reference evaluation platform with DDR5 memory.

This Arrow Lake-H Laptop CPU scored 1598.22 Mpix/s. There are dozen more leaks/entries/patches.

https://ranker.sisoftware.co.uk/sho...efdaedd8ead3e6c0b28fbf99fc99a494b2c1fcc4&l=en

One desktop entry:

https://ranker.sisoftware.co.uk/sho...efdaedd8eadbe9cfbd80b096f396ab9bbdcef3cb&l=en

Nova Lake is the newest CPU architecture we've heard about so far. According to unconfirmed leaks, it is expected to provide a massive 60% IPC improvement compared to its predecessors and use Intel's 3rd-gen Xe3 Celestial GPU architecture for integrated graphics.

Nothing is officially confirmed yet, but there is a HIGH probability that Intel might just opt for the Xe4-LPG "Druid" architecture for Panther Lake's successor, which is NOVA LAKE. Some coreboot patches confirm this as well.

As far as we can tell, Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake will be very similar architecturally with very few differences.

Not correct. You are comparing mobile u'arch with desktop, not to mention the different process nodes used. Both are entirely different. Lunar Lake is a fresh ground-up design and CPU uArch, built with perf/watt in mind for mobile devices.

Lunar Lake's main focus will be on entry-level and energy-efficient laptop designs. It's a new low-power architecture having significant IPC improvements, and we can expect Lunar Lake platform to support 8W fanless and 17W – 30W actively cooled designs as well.

Also, Lunar Lake-MX will be the first batch of CPUs to mark the transition towards Battlemage architectures, known as the "Xe2-LPG" graphics. Arrow Lake still uses Alchemist/Xe1.

 

[thisisaname]

DOJ needs to revisit Dell and Intel…

Yes there is "talk" of them using AMD but that they did not leak any AMD CPU roadmap would say otherwise.

 

[estinamir]

With people using smart phones who needs 2000 dollar laptops these days, especially when they get obsolete with every new version of Windows which won’t allow you to upgrade or even install updates. May be good for businesses only.

 

[Kridian]

I think we should get rid of cell phones and make laptops the common communication device.
And they're sexy!

 

[thestryker]

We know the demarcation for RLR/Meteor Lake. RLR was for desktop, and MTL stuck with mobile.

No they really didn't here's MTL's mobile RPL counterpart: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...es/236798/intel-core-processors-series-1.html

For ARL to be both desktop & mobile would indeed be confusing for the user, and a heavy lift for marketing to differentiate.

It'll be almost identical to how they had to approach MTL and RPL both existing in the same generation for mobile. LNL is a lot more focused than most of Intel's recent CPUs and seems aimed at Qualcomm so it may actually have some sort of very specific branding.

Not correct. You are comparing mobile u'arch with desktop, not to mention the different process nodes used. Both are entirely different. Lunar Lake is a fresh ground-up design and CPU uArch, built with perf/watt in mind for mobile devices.

They're both using Lion Cove P-cores and Skymont E-cores which is what I believe the article is getting at. Overall design and implementation for the CPUs themselves is certainly dramatically different.

 

[Amdlova]

For this price I go full intel lol

 

[baboma]

>No they really didn't here's MTL's mobile RPL counterpart: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...es/236798/intel-core-processors-series-1.html

Thanks for the info. Of the above list, most go into embedded, and only 3 (100U/120U/150U) are in laptops, and are already out in Q1. Tracing the i7 150U shows that it's only in laptops in Australia and India.

So, yes, "mobile" is more diverse than just laptops, and different regions have different product variants. But the gist still holds, MTL is laptops, and RLR is (mostly) desktops and embedded.

I assume this will hold true for ARL/LNL.

 

[thestryker]

So, yes, "mobile" is more diverse than just laptops, and different regions have different product variants. But the gist still holds, MTL is laptops, and RLR is (mostly) desktops and embedded.

There's also the 14th Gen HX line for the high end (should be around 5 SKUs which are binned desktop chips) since there is no equivalent MTL.

I assume this will hold true for ARL/LNL.

If you're assuming LNL will be like MTL in this comparison you're wrong. LNL will be extremely limited in SKU count due to it not being a full stack line. It does not go higher than 4P/4E, uses Battlemage graphics (ARL is Alchemist) and has on package memory (might be EMIB). This means it's tightly integrated and ought to have very high performance for the power profile it is in. It also means that it cannot really serve any other market than premium ultrabook type devices.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

They're both using Lion Cove P-cores and Skymont E-cores which is what I believe the article is getting at. Overall design and implementation for the CPUs themselves is certainly dramatically different.

Maybe but the article's wording can be a bit misleading. But P and E cores aside, the real architecture is "dramatically" different like you mentioned.

Most importantly, actually there has been some architectural changes as well, since we last learned about the low-power LUNAR LAKE lineup. I have mentioned this before as well here at the forums that this new CPU lineup would be replacing E-cores with the SoC-centric LPE cores instead.

• 4P+0E+4LPE Core Configuration

But some older INTEL slides still mention 4P+4E config, but that has been changed now, as confirmed by multiple sources.

Lunar Lake is actually a spiritual successor to Lakefield, and would feature the Foveros 3D packaging to stack the DRAM dies on top of the SoC.

Lunar Lake CPUs might also drop the "MX" branding and utilize "V" branding instead, LNL-V. This was sort of confirmed via a recent leak, as well as by a leaker on Chinese forum. But this is not yet finalized.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776005067117592756

View: https://twitter.com/miktdt/status/1776005067117592756

https://www.bilibili.com/opus/921254597915312153?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0

So based on the above info, it would appear that a single die which will feature 4 P-cores based on the Lion Cove core architecture, and 4 LP-E cores based on the Skymont core architecture.

Assuming there aren't any standard E-Cores for Lunar Lake CPUs, this might imply how Intel would be achieving bigger generational "Performance Per Watt" gains with these thin and light series of laptop chips.

Speaking of Battlemage Xe2-LPG iGPUs, we can expect 8 Xe-cores, so that's up to 64 EUs. Few enablement patches have already begun within Linux, and some references such as "64" and "GT1" were already found in the above leak/tweet, especially in the log file.

So let me break this down for Lunar Lake. Rumored/expected specs:

• 4P+0E+4LPE Core Configurations
• They are designed for thin & light Notebooks, low-power devices.
• Support for Lion Cove P-Cores & Skymont LPE-Cores
• Battlemage "Xe2-LPG" GPU Architecture
• Up to 8 Xe2 GPU Cores
• Max up to 64 Execution Units/EUs
• On-Package 32 GB LPDDR5x Memory, rated at speeds of up to 8533 MT/s
• Up To 3x Faster NPU Performance Versus Meteor Lake
• 17-30W TDP
• Launch volume by early/mid 2025. Some models might come out in q4 2024 as well, but in very limited quantities as per insider industry sources.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

Some Old Lunar Lake slides. Might contain "outdated/canned" tech info.

 

[rluker5]

DOJ needs to revisit Dell and Intel…

Maybe I haven't kept up, but I thought it was harder for Dell to make those totally vpro locked down laptops that employers like to buy if you used AMD. With the bit locked drives, secure remote administrator controls and stuff. Also AMD doesn't patch vulnerabilities like SQUIP and leftover locals so that also is a big no no for a lot of corporate customers.
Also a lot of AGESA updates may be a pain to work with.
If AMD has the worse product in this case it isn't bias to buy Intel.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

BTW, Intel has already added the CPUIDs of its next-gen Panther Lake processors to Linux Coreboot.

Assuming the nomenclature doesn't change, Panther Lake will likely form the Core Ultra 300 series processors featuring the Cougar Cove P and Skymont E-core architecture.

The CPUIDs of early Panther Lake samples have been added. These are “0xC06C0” and “0xC06C1.”

https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/81849

 

[artk2219]

With people using smart phones who needs 2000 dollar laptops these days, especially when they get obsolete with every new version of Windows which won’t allow you to upgrade or even install updates. May be good for businesses only.

I hate using my phone for anything important. The screen is limited, making it hard to compare multiple things at once, writing is a pain compared to a keyboard, and actually selecting multiple items at once can be a pain. That's not getting into general software availability and how it handles different web pages and services. Don't get me wrong, i use my phone for a ton of things, its an amazing little computer, but its not a good device to use for anything serious (im not doing my taxes on my phone). Sure i could get a dock and use it like a desktop, but that still doesn't solve the app and webpage issues, and i could also just have a desktop or laptop thats way more feature rich. They're not equivalent.

 

[TechyIT223]

DOJ needs to revisit Dell and Intel…

Sir I didn't get your point..pardon me what is DOJ ?

What do you mean by that? 🤔

 

[thestryker]

Sir I didn't get your point..pardon me what is DOJ ?

What do you mean by that? 🤔

Referring to the United States Department of Justice and likely a callback to when AMD's Athlon 64s were better than Pentium 4s and Intel literally paid Dell to not use AMD.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

I hate using my phone for anything important. The screen is limited, making it hard to compare multiple things at once, writing is a pain compared to a keyboard, and actually selecting multiple items at once can be a pain. That's not getting into general software availability and how it handles different web pages and services. Don't get me wrong, i use my phone for a ton of things, its an amazing little computer, but its a giant pain for anything serious (im not doing my taxes on my phone). Sure i could dock it and use it like a desktop, but that still doesn't solve the app and webpage issues, and i could also just have a desktop or laptop thats way more feature rich. They're not equivalent.

Couldn't agree more. I'm on the same boat !

 

[TechyIT223]

Referring to the United States Department of Justice and likely a callback to when AMD's Athlon 64s were better than Pentium 4s and Intel literally paid Dell to not use AMD.

Okay. Thank you. I get it now. It had me confused for a moment, lol. 🙃

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

Since we already talked about Lunar Lake processors, a new Chinese manufacturer, Shenzhen Weibu Information Inc., has already teased that their upcoming GP10 gaming handheld will be powered by the Intel Lunar Lake CPU platform.

It's legit info since it was posted on Computex's webpage, but the link seems to have been moved/changed (was active yesterday).

https://www.computextaipei.com.tw/e...7492DC41E92807EBD9FA42B0AFC/info.html?lt=grid

Image Source: Computex Taipei

Weibu specializes in mini-ITX motherboards, and an early 2024 LinkedIn post from the company’s sales consultant Wilson Chung hinted at an upcoming handheld console.

So it does seem to confirm that Weibu is planning to introduce a handheld console lineup later this year.

 

[lemongrassgarlic]

Hopefully cooler cpu's because these thin XPS's cool badly and their fans are quickly filled with dust. These xps's are hard to open too, for cleaning.
It seems no 17 inch screens for XPS , 16 is not big enough.
Why nV graphics ? Once you start them up , the laptop heats up even more (much more).
I never use the nV , it's always the Xe from intel.
And if Dell keeps raping the audio with maxxAudio/waves , why ever buy a Dell again ?

 

[TechyIT223]

It seems no 17 inch screens for XPS , 16 is not big enough.

17 inch models are actually there imo

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

So, to surmise this leak, a total of five different architectures in the space of just three years. A very progressive strategy by Dell, regardless of how Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, and Panther Lake probably do not share too many common elements.

But that's still a lot of changes in a relatively short period, causing confusion to the casual buyer.

The one caveat to all this, however, is that the leaked document is from August last year, and so the roadmap could well have changed by now. The document also mentions an Nvidia laptop GPU refresh, which isn't going to happen.

So not all of this can be taken as a gospel. The below displayed chart and nomenclature is not fully accurate:

Intel Lunar Lake-MX	Intel Core Ultra 200V	Sep 2024
Intel Arrow Lake-H/U/P	Intel Core Ultra 200	Q1 2025
Qualcomm Oryon (Snapdragon X Series)	Qualcomm Snapdragon X V2	2H 2025
Intel Panther Lake-H/U/P	Intel Core Ultra 300	Q4 2025
Intel Nova Lake-H/U/P	Intel Core Ultra 400	Q4 2026
AMD “Next-Gen”	AMD Ryzen AI HX	Q1 2027
Qualcomm Oryon (Snapdragon X Series)	Qualcomm Snapdragon X V3	Q4 2027

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

Well, a lot of Mobile variants now found in shipping manifest bound from/to India, for the upcoming Arrow Lake "Core Ultra 200" & Panther Lake "Core Ultra 300" CPUs.

https://www.nbd.ltd/customs-data?t=0&v=foc ptl

https://www.nbd.ltd/customs-data?t=0&v=arrow lake

We have the Arrow Lake-H, HX, and U lineup. As per some entries, we get to see Intel's' N3B process node listed for Arrow Lake-H, GT2 tier graphics.

Then we have the Panther Lake UH, UPH, and P variants.

The following core configurations are being spotted for ARL.

Arrow Lake-HX 24 cores, 8+16
Arrow Lake-H 14-Cores, 6+8
Arrow Lake-U 10-Cores, 2+8

 

[thestryker]

We have the Arrow Lake-H, HX, and U lineup. As per some entries, we get to see Intel's' N3B process node listed for Arrow Lake-H, GT2 tier graphics.

I'm somewhat surprised these are N3B since MTL was N5 and everything has indicated ARL will all have Xe rather than Xe2 graphics tiles. Perhaps it's just how Intel did their wafer buys though.