News Microsoft allows Windows 11 to be installed on older, unsupported hardware but specifically nixes official support — minimum requirements for full...

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Microsoft says you can install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware but does not guarantee a stable experience.

Microsoft allows Windows 11 to be installed on older, unsupported hardware but specifically nixes official support — minimum requirements for full... : Read more

 

[salgado18]

Windows 11 feels like a giant shot in the foot: MS is investing all its cards into it, but it only runs on new hardware, and customers eligible don't want to upgrade. This news feels like nothing: of course you can install on unsupported hardware, but it will be... unsupported. So why bother upgrading?

Why not make an OS that fits any hardware? Why not lure people with benefits, instead of forcing them to it?

 

[mitch074]

Why not make an OS that fits any hardware? Why not lure people with benefits, instead of forcing them to it?

When Microsoft made Windows 10, they examined their testing/QA team : it was HUGE.
Since then , they shrunk it - users are now beta testers, and new versions of Windows 10 were known for how unstable they were. And, that's because Windows 10 supported pretty much any computer that could run Windows 7 - that's almost 15 years of hardware evolution to test against.
And that's costly if you want to test internally, and will cause userspace breakages aplenty with your customers.
So, when they made Windows 11, they decided to cut it all off : nothing older than 5 years will be supported, PERIOD - 64-bit mode only, AVX2 required, TPM 2.0 and UEFI to remove 35 years of BIOS hackery...

 

[bgunner]

When looking into it I found these statements that seem to lead the consumer to believe that you will not get updates on unsupported devices.

Info from: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...irements-0b2dc4a2-5933-4ad4-9c09-ef0a331518f1

" Devices that don't meet these system requirements aren't guaranteed to receive updates, including but not limited to security updates."

and

" If you proceed with installing Windows 11, your PC will no longer be supported and won't be entitled to receive updates. "

These statements seem to imply that you will not get updates. This makes me wonder if you will or not. This is concerning to me. My laptop fails the CPU and TPM 2.0 requirements but meets all other requirements other than the DX12 requirement for the GPU.

The next question is how to do an update through windows update? There is no Obvious way to update to Win 11 on unsupported devices. Do you still need to go the route of downloading the file and making an ISO bootable device to install? If so you might as well run Rufus and do an install that way and see if you still get the water marks.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

When Microsoft made Windows 10, they examined their testing/QA team : it was HUGE.
Since then , they shrunk it - users are now beta testers, and new versions of Windows 10 were known for how unstable they were. And, that's because Windows 10 supported pretty much any computer that could run Windows 7 - that's almost 15 years of hardware evolution to test against.
And that's costly if you want to test internally, and will cause userspace breakages aplenty with your customers.
So, when they made Windows 11, they decided to cut it all off : nothing older than 5 years will be supported, PERIOD - 64-bit mode only, AVX2 required, TPM 2.0 and UEFI to remove 35 years of BIOS hackery...

Yes to the above. Apple is far worse than Microsoft. No matter if you buy their $599 Mac Mini or the most expensive Macbook Pro, they have on average about 5-6 years of OS upgrades followed by 2 of years security updates. If you want to stay current, buy a new Mac from Apple.

Microsoft has taken a different approach because they primarily are a software company and as such, Windows is basically i.e. a free service OS. Where Apple ties their Webkit to all 3rd party browsers, Microsoft doesn't. So the OS has a longer shelf life sans security updates.

Me personally, I wish Microsoft would create a brand new version of Windows with a new file system, no registry and required 64 bit architecture thereby eliminating all legacy code and continue supporting Windows 11 or 12 to give users and developers time to move their software over to the built from the ground up Windows.

 

[ravewulf]

So if you won't get Windows 11 updates on unsupported systems, what's the incentive to move them off of Windows 10 which also won't be getting updates?

 

[bgunner]

Windows 11 feels like a giant shot in the foot: MS is investing all its cards into it, but it only runs on new hardware, and customers eligible don't want to upgrade. This news feels like nothing: of course you can install on unsupported hardware, but it will be... unsupported. So why bother upgrading?

My gaming PC has run Win 11 since I built it so I personally don't have issues there but my laptop, a 2012-'13 vintage is where the update affects me. Getting updates is the main reason for the want to upgrade it to Win 11. I never use Microsoft support even on my gaming PC, google is better and I can use my mind to figure it out that way, so being supported through their service doesn't interest me. Getting security updates does make a difference for me.

I guess I'll have to wait and see how updates work on unsupported devices before trying an update to Win 11.

These are some reasons to upgrade.

 

[BFG-9000]

When Microsoft made Windows 10, they examined their testing/QA team : it was HUGE.

When Windows 10 was released in 2015, they had just laid off 18,000 employees the year before, including the entire QA department, on the premise that they would just ship a beta to the masses and "telemetry will just tell us what to fix" for the actual paying Enterprise customers on a slower release schedule. This is why the upgrade to Windows 10 was free--retail and OEM customers were the beta testers while volunteer "Windows Insiders" signed up to be the "internal" alpha testers...

Microsoft saw how Google Android rolling releases made the customer the product and wanted to copy that, so "last Windows ever" 10 builds have always been buggy.

 

[das_stig]

Yes to the above. Apple is far worse than Microsoft. No matter if you buy their $599 Mac Mini or the most expensive Macbook Pro, they have on average about 5-6 years of OS upgrades followed by 2 of years security updates. If you want to stay current, buy a new Mac from Apple.

Microsoft has taken a different approach because they primarily are a software company and as such, Windows is basically i.e. a free service OS. Where Apple ties their Webkit to all 3rd party browsers, Microsoft doesn't. So the OS has a longer shelf life sans security updates.

Me personally, I wish Microsoft would create a brand new version of Windows with a new file system, no registry and required 64 bit architecture thereby eliminating all legacy code and continue supporting Windows 11 or 12 to give users and developers time to move their software over to the built from the ground up Windows.

what your talking about was Windows Core OS (WCOS) project, that badly evolved in to W10 as they decided not dump legacy and Win32. WCOS designed to be a baseline OS that Microsoft could just bolt on components to support whatever was needed primarily UWP apps and would have powered their mobile division if it wasn't smothered at birth from within, with the various departments infighting.

 

[abufrejoval]

I've had little luck installing Windows 11 on older hardware. Even with the normal registry hacks (e.g. via Rufus) or command line switches Windows 11 24H2 ISOs just failed because evidently CPU checks were still done by setup.exe.

However, once installed on a CPU modern enough to pass those checks, I've been able to take these images to far older hardware, where it runs just fine, including monthly patches and automatic loading of device drivers for them.

I've done this on Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake and Kaby Lake systems without issue, I haven't tried older systems without POPCNT support, because there is little chance that would work.

Admittedly I've been using LTSC IoT ISOs for the initial install, because I wanted to be sure that I'd never get minor release/feature updates, Total Recall, Co-Pilot, OneDrive, or other new nasties. Secure boot, bitlocker and TPM also are not required for the IoT variant, which IMHO quite simply should be the default variant for everyone. I can't remember the last time Microsoft added anything I wanted to Windows, so I regard that as a benefit. And that older hardware isn't very likely to spout a new bit of hardware (xPU) to make that necessary.

BTW: I haven't tried this yet, but Windows 11 has always just run on older CPUs when installing inside a VM. So if you don't have a newer CPU available, you could install inside a VM and then clone that installed image to a physical drive and boot from that. Yeah, too bad, M$ blocking booting from USB is a bit of a bother... recovery boot and ServiWin helps sometimes.

Windows 10 and 11 are pretty great when it comes to moving existing installations between physical systems or copying it to additional ones. Mostly because such cloning has become the default of how Windows typically installs itself. After a reboot or two to reconfigure itself and load additional drivers, you'd never notice it wasn't at home on the kit you're running it on.

You'd want to have an extra activation key available, though, if you don't have a MAK.

 

[BFG-9000]

So if you won't get Windows 11 updates on unsupported systems, what's the incentive to move them off of Windows 10 which also won't be getting updates?

Well you should at least be able to manually upgrade to the latest annual build so will be up-to-date once a year.

After checking to see if some new requirement such as the mentioned POPCNT instruction for 24H2 hasn't been added of course. But then you will be the alpha tester.

 

[abufrejoval]

When Microsoft made Windows 10, they examined their testing/QA team : it was HUGE.
Since then , they shrunk it - users are now beta testers, and new versions of Windows 10 were known for how unstable they were. And, that's because Windows 10 supported pretty much any computer that could run Windows 7 - that's almost 15 years of hardware evolution to test against.
And that's costly if you want to test internally, and will cause userspace breakages aplenty with your customers.
So, when they made Windows 11, they decided to cut it all off : nothing older than 5 years will be supported, PERIOD - 64-bit mode only, AVX2 required, TPM 2.0 and UEFI to remove 35 years of BIOS hackery...

Nobody argues with Microsoft not supporting older hardware.

Quite a few people have issues with Microsoft sabotageing older hardware.

The first is a notice on installation/upgrade saying "your hardware is not supported by this edition of Windows: operate under your own risk." which then lets you do it anyway.

If it breaks or fails to work afterwards, they even have the roll-back figured out pretty well.

Currently they won't let you continue even if it's quite obviously not an issue of it working. Nobody and nothing needs TPM, not even if you wanted to encrypt your storage. And as far as the instruction set is concerned, they only just raised that to Nehalem and younger. And Windows 10 device drivers just continue to work on Windows 11, it's not like there was actually any additional effort involved, except closing the loopholes during installation...

I've tried quite a few systems now as far back as Ivy Bridge with Windows 11 24H2. That i7-3770 with 32GB of RAM and a GTX 980ti is still running quite a few games very competently, I might add, some even at 4k.

And there is simply no chance Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice or VLC might overwhelm it for the next few years, which is all quite a few people ever need from their personal computers.

I'm readying a few of my older machines for parents, in-laws and others around 80 years of age. A lot of them have used PCs for decades and prefer proper keyboards, big screens and things looking and behaving pretty much the same as they did 10 or 20 years ago. And I'm mostly replacing even older systems I handed them 5 or 10 years ago, after I had used them for 5 years.

They don't need ultra thin laptops with odd keyboards or let alone an AI. Nor do they spend all day glued to screens gaming. They just need to manage their digital essentials.

At the same time they are a favorite target of criminals, who want to cheat them out of their last pennies, so they need systems that aren't vulnerable to the outside or so smart that any kid can talk them into being disloyal to their owners.

And they don't need to be spied on or manipulated either, which is very dear to M$ but the last thing they need.

 

[edzieba]

Why not make an OS that fits any hardware?

They did the whole "here's the minimum requirements, but you can run it on older stuff at your own risk" bit with Windows 8. It resulted in a storm of moaning and complaining as people installed it on older hardware and experienced the 100% expected problems of running it on older hardware.

Have hardware that supports Windows 11? Install it, or don't and stay on Windows 10 (or install Linux or whatever).
Have hardware that doesn't support Windows 11? Install it and live with the issues and don't demand fixes when you were told it will experience issues, or don't and stay on Windows 10 (or install Linux or whatever).

 

[hotaru251]

Why not make an OS that fits any hardware? Why not lure people with benefits, instead of forcing them to it?

$$$

selling product keys doesnt make much $ in grand scheme of their total profits, but they will squeeze every bit possible.


I do wonder if someone could put a case to courts to force them to allow non TPM as it is proven to not really stop much more than non tpm ones & it is extremely bad to make millions of devices e-waste when they are fully capable of being usable.

 

[EzzyB]

When Windows 10 was released in 2015, they had just laid off 18,000 employees the year before, including the entire QA department, on the premise that they would just ship a beta to the masses and "telemetry will just tell us what to fix" for the actual paying Enterprise customers on a slower release schedule. This is why the upgrade to Windows 10 was free--retail and OEM customers were the beta testers while volunteer "Windows Insiders" signed up to be the "internal" alpha testers...

Microsoft saw how Google Android rolling releases made the customer the product and wanted to copy that, so "last Windows ever" 10 builds have always been buggy.

I keep harping on this. In the consumer space Microsoft wants to become Google. Well Google with a little extra (OEM's still must pay to install Windows.) Right now everything you hate about Windows 11 Home and Pro is fixable (except, I think, placing the task bar on the side.) simply by using the Enterprise version. The greatest IYKYK fact about Windows 11 (and 10 for that matter) is that the Pro version and the Enterprise version are the same software. Microsoft itself provides public registration keys that instantly convert one to the other. Mind you if you do this you will be left with an unactivated copy of Enterprise unless you have access to a corporate activation server. The Enterprise edition is just the same software with more registry/policy settings that allow you to do stuff like turn off telemetry and OneDrive nags, among other things. At the very least it's interesting to play around with on a second machine or VM. As far as I know the only way you can buy an Enterprise copy is with a minimum 300 copy license.

There was a huge difference between the development of Windows 10 and 11. I was in the Insider Program for both. During Windows 10 development there were lively discussions (though way to many of them were about... wait for it..... icons. I had no idea people were so passionate about friggin icons .) If you had an issue it would at least be acknowledged and discussed. Heck I ended up in the 6-way, week long Email stream all about getting Creative sound card drivers working (mainly because I had figured out a work-around that pointed to a way to fix them for Windows 10). You actually felt like you were contributing.

Total opposite in Windows 11. Microsoft listened to absolutely nothing. You're only purpose was to be a telemetry bot. They had already made up their minds and had a deadline that was unmovable. I just gave up and refused to be there just to be a guinea pig.

 

[OneMoreUser]

As expected. They want their spyware everywhere, so it was either this or a "special" light weight 11 for older gear only this is easier and they take them self of the hook for any service they deem not to bring money.

 

[SomeoneElse23]

Remember the general tendency for Windows releases: every other release is terrible.

Windows 7: fantastic
Windows 8: terrible
Windows 10: fantastic
Windows 11: terrible

Unless MS has changed their tune, Windows 12 will be "better".

Although MS seems to have gone the way of telemetry for everything (which you can block with PiHole for your DNS) and subscriptions for everything, so who knows.

Me, I'm sticking with my Win 10 for the foreseeable future to see how things really pan out come October 2025.

On a side note, I'm sure Microsoft's hardware partners love the push for new hardware...

 

[stonecarver]

Here is an interesting thought. If Microsoft lets us now install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware but hangs that carrot out there, but we at Microsoft might not give you security updates as a tactic to maybe get you to just get new parts.

How is that different running Windows 10 past EOL with no security updates after Oct 2025.

That would mean all this chatter about having to pay for extended Windows 10 support after Oct 2025 is out the window by not patching machines with Windows 11 non supported CPU's and letting them be out here in the wild not patched.

I just don't see Microsoft not giving security updates to a non compliant CPU that does not meet there official requirement for Windows 11.

If you have SSE4.2 for Intel or for AMD SSE4.2a I have been reading the 24H2 update will install and work.

I have not did the update myself so I'm treading slowly following along to see the good and the bad on that subject.

 

[Scott Baylor]

The inconsistency from M$ about the hardware recommendations is what lead me to remove all Windows devices from our schools and implement ChromeOS. Cheaper, easier to lock down, and devices have a longer EOL.

 

[ezst036]

When Microsoft made Windows 10, they examined their testing/QA team : it was HUGE.
Since then , they shrunk it - users are now beta testers, and new versions of Windows 10 were known for how unstable they were. And, that's because Windows 10 supported pretty much any computer that could run Windows 7 - that's almost 15 years of hardware evolution to test against.
And that's costly if you want to test internally, and will cause userspace breakages aplenty with your customers.
So, when they made Windows 11, they decided to cut it all off : nothing older than 5 years will be supported, PERIOD - 64-bit mode only, AVX2 required, TPM 2.0 and UEFI to remove 35 years of BIOS hackery...

Is there anything published that details how the QA team got axed?

 

[thestryker]

The next question is how to do an update through windows update? There is no Obvious way to update to Win 11 on unsupported devices. Do you still need to go the route of downloading the file and making an ISO bootable device to install? If so you might as well run Rufus and do an install that way and see if you still get the water marks.

If you have an existing Windows 10 installation the registry key modification is here if you have TPM 1.2+, but otherwise you have to make installation media: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...ndows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

 

[stuff and nonesense]

Remember the general tendency for Windows releases: every other release is terrible.

Windows 7: fantastic
Windows 8: terrible
Windows 10: fantastic
Windows 11: terrible

Unless MS has changed their tune, Windows 12 will be "better".

Although MS seems to have gone the way of telemetry for everything (which you can block with PiHole for your DNS) and subscriptions for everything, so who knows.

Me, I'm sticking with my Win 10 for the foreseeable future to see how things really pan out come October 2025.

On a side note, I'm sure Microsoft's hardware partners love the push for new hardware...

You missed off Windows 2000, the goat, light, snappy, simple, little bloat, ran comfortably in 128MB, ran beautifully in 256MB.

 

[stonecarver]

https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/system_requirements_not_met.html

I have not had to deal with the water mark heck didn't even know it was a thing but I found this the other day.

Sure the water mark if you run an un registered copy of windows but this unsupported hardware watermark is new to me.

 

[salgado18]

$$$

selling product keys doesnt make much $ in grand scheme of their total profits, but they will squeeze every bit possible.


I do wonder if someone could put a case to courts to force them to allow non TPM as it is proven to not really stop much more than non tpm ones & it is extremely bad to make millions of devices e-waste when they are fully capable of being usable.

You're right: it's the money. They probably have research that tells them people with old hardware don't spend too much, be it buying hardware, using online paid services or interacting with ads. So MS will target the audience with money, and screw the rest.

And that's how they will fail to increase W11's install base, because many won't leave W10, a few will try Macs, a few will try Linux (thanks to Steam's Proton), and very few will save up money to upgrade.

 

[USAFRet]

Here is an interesting thought. If Microsoft lets us now install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware but hangs that carrot out there, but we at Microsoft might not give you security updates as a tactic to maybe get you to just get new parts.

How is that different running Windows 10 past EOL with no security updates after Oct 2025.

That would mean all this chatter about having to pay for extended Windows 10 support after Oct 2025 is out the window by not patching machines with Windows 11 non supported CPU's and letting them be out here in the wild not patched.

I just don't see Microsoft not giving security updates to a non compliant CPU that does not meet there official requirement for Windows 11.

If you have SSE4.2 for Intel or for AMD SSE4.2a I have been reading the 24H2 update will install and work.

I have not did the update myself so I'm treading slowly following along to see the good and the bad on that subject.

1. MS doesn't sell a whole lot of hardware.

2. Unsupported Win 11 vs Unsupported Win 10 is a non starter for a lot of companies. They NEED that regular update thing.
Either extra $$ in Win 10, or go to Win 11.