- Jul 1, 2008
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Microsoft Changes Browser Ballot to Appease EU
- Thread starter Marcus Yam
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This is really one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. Every single version of Windows I have owned has come with IE, that hasn't once stopped me from getting and using FireFox. Why is it that it's no issue for Apple to bundle Safari with OSX, or Ubuntu to bundle FireFox, but it's not fair for Microsoft to bundle IE? Something isn't right here.
It's a shame that Microsoft is forced to put up with this crap.
It's a shame that Microsoft is forced to put up with this crap.
Too bad microsoft just didnt pull the browser completely off the os and let the users have nothing with no way of downloading one either.
Greedy union just wants money and once Microsoft complies here they will find another reason to fine so they can get more money. Then every competitor will take advantage of situation and jump on bandwagon calling for totally stupid bullsh!t things to take place(much like the one in this article).
Greedy union just wants money and once Microsoft complies here they will find another reason to fine so they can get more money. Then every competitor will take advantage of situation and jump on bandwagon calling for totally stupid bullsh!t things to take place(much like the one in this article).
mitch074
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- Mar 17, 2006
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@Abrahm: when I first used Windows 95, there was no web browser: I installed Netscape. Then, IE 4 appeared: it installed itself on my nice Win95 install, screwed up Netscape, and it wouldn't remove itself - even after I put Netscape back in. Suddenly, I had popups, unrequired messages, adverts on my desktop, 5-20 mb of wasted RAM, and a desktop that would show error messages constantly (when an advert failed to run, or caused a Trident crash).
I wanted to remove IE. I couldn't; it was 'fused with the OS'. Yay.
Then, in 2003, I found out that the Mozilla project had made a 'light' browser, based on the Mozilla Suite's engine. It worked well, it was rather light, it did everything I needed it to... But even when I installed it, I still had to babysit IE, which WOULD NOT COME OFF and that WOULD NOT SHUT UP (it had no popup blocker). And versions 5.0,5.5,6.0,7.0 and 8.0 didn't make things any better. Still I tried: hunting for unused DLLs, removing registry settings, deleting directories... Even authoring special WinXP install CDs with as much IE components removed as possible.
It's a shame that as a Windows user I'm forced by MS to deal with IE's crap. Luckily, I don't suffer Windows too much any more.
I wanted to remove IE. I couldn't; it was 'fused with the OS'. Yay.
Then, in 2003, I found out that the Mozilla project had made a 'light' browser, based on the Mozilla Suite's engine. It worked well, it was rather light, it did everything I needed it to... But even when I installed it, I still had to babysit IE, which WOULD NOT COME OFF and that WOULD NOT SHUT UP (it had no popup blocker). And versions 5.0,5.5,6.0,7.0 and 8.0 didn't make things any better. Still I tried: hunting for unused DLLs, removing registry settings, deleting directories... Even authoring special WinXP install CDs with as much IE components removed as possible.
It's a shame that as a Windows user I'm forced by MS to deal with IE's crap. Luckily, I don't suffer Windows too much any more.
**Breaking News**
This just in. The EU is going after Microsoft again stating, "Because Windows is the dominant OS, we will force Microsoft to incorporate a ballot of other OSs. It is only fair to the consumer if we make them do that." Umm.. bro, since when is one company responsible for the advertising/marketing of their competitor? Not to mention the amount of support tickets/calls Microsoft will get when one of those other Browsers crash.
It seems Microsoft will not be killed by one single blow, but dismantled with one small punch after the other.
This comment brought to you through Firefox.
This just in. The EU is going after Microsoft again stating, "Because Windows is the dominant OS, we will force Microsoft to incorporate a ballot of other OSs. It is only fair to the consumer if we make them do that." Umm.. bro, since when is one company responsible for the advertising/marketing of their competitor? Not to mention the amount of support tickets/calls Microsoft will get when one of those other Browsers crash.
It seems Microsoft will not be killed by one single blow, but dismantled with one small punch after the other.
This comment brought to you through Firefox.
@Abraham
Even though every version of windows had IE bundled and didn't stop YOU, it did stop a huge share of users that are unaware of what a browser even means. They want "internet" and seeing "Internet Explorer" is the closest thing to that and they click it. That's how things go for them.
Now, (and answering to your second question here as well) IE has been a pain for web developers since the beginnings of time since unlike the other major browsers, it's not compliant to the web standards. This means web developers need a version of a website for "standard browsers" and one for "IE". That translates in double the work needed.
Safari on the other hand is (as far as I know) fully compliant to the web standards, just like Chrome. Firefox is 96% or so compliant.
Even though every version of windows had IE bundled and didn't stop YOU, it did stop a huge share of users that are unaware of what a browser even means. They want "internet" and seeing "Internet Explorer" is the closest thing to that and they click it. That's how things go for them.
Now, (and answering to your second question here as well) IE has been a pain for web developers since the beginnings of time since unlike the other major browsers, it's not compliant to the web standards. This means web developers need a version of a website for "standard browsers" and one for "IE". That translates in double the work needed.
Safari on the other hand is (as far as I know) fully compliant to the web standards, just like Chrome. Firefox is 96% or so compliant.
I have an idea. If you don't like IE being coupled with Windows, maybe you could stop using Windows...
Wish the EU would just F**k off. So much wasted litigation (I'm in the UK). Are they going after Apple for not giving a browser choice? Nooo? The EU stinks, this is not free trade.
People of the various countries are being forced into this big (unelected) EU shit pile super state when all (most) people want is free trade and travel. Vote UKIP .
/end of political rant
People of the various countries are being forced into this big (unelected) EU shit pile super state when all (most) people want is free trade and travel. Vote UKIP .
/end of political rant
icepick314
Distinguished
- Jul 24, 2002
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i would have pulled MS out of entire EU...loss profit be DAMMED!!!
see how EU would survive without anything MS.....
they probably can get away using Linux or Apple but it'll be one hell of change no one would want to go through.....
see how EU would survive without anything MS.....
they probably can get away using Linux or Apple but it'll be one hell of change no one would want to go through.....
[citation][nom]jimanjr[/nom]@AbrahamEven though every version of windows had IE bundled and didn't stop YOU, it did stop a huge share of users that are unaware of what a browser even means. They want "internet" and seeing "Internet Explorer" is the closest thing to that and they click it. That's how things go for them.Now, (and answering to your second question here as well) IE has been a pain for web developers since the beginnings of time since unlike the other major browsers, it's not compliant to the web standards. This means web developers need a version of a website for "standard browsers" and one for "IE". That translates in double the work needed.Safari on the other hand (as far as I know) fully compliant to the web standards, just like Chrome. Firefox is 96% or so compliant.[/citation]
None of that is really relevant to my point though. So what if users think IE is the internet and don't know what a browser is. People like that probably don't care about alternative browsers anyways. Being standards compliant is, again, completely irrelevant to this issue as that isn't why the EU is doing this.
This is a slippery slope. What's next? Windows Firewall must be removed or other companies firewalls must be included? We should remove Notepad and Paint also, that isn't fair to other companies.
Again, how is it unfair to other companies that MS bundles IE with Windows, but it's completely fair for OS X to come with Safari and Ubuntu with FireFox? The difference? Windows is much more popular than OS X ro Ubuntu, and the EU can squeeze more money out of MS.
None of that is really relevant to my point though. So what if users think IE is the internet and don't know what a browser is. People like that probably don't care about alternative browsers anyways. Being standards compliant is, again, completely irrelevant to this issue as that isn't why the EU is doing this.
This is a slippery slope. What's next? Windows Firewall must be removed or other companies firewalls must be included? We should remove Notepad and Paint also, that isn't fair to other companies.
Again, how is it unfair to other companies that MS bundles IE with Windows, but it's completely fair for OS X to come with Safari and Ubuntu with FireFox? The difference? Windows is much more popular than OS X ro Ubuntu, and the EU can squeeze more money out of MS.
Everyone on this site knows for a fact that this ballot screen will skew any usage statistics, which ever browser shows up at the left the most will be used the most. No one is going to read past the first one on the left that is installing or setting up a new machine. They want the machine to work right out of the box and anything standing in the way of a that is going to get partially of fully ignored. They first check box is going to get checked all the time by users that can care less about different browsers.
IMO I think the EU are becoming control freaks. If Microsoft wants to include I.E. then I am all for it. Microsoft is a privately owned company. They are not doing anything to their operating system to stop other browsers from being installed. I really don't like the fact that I.E. is not really following web standards but that is their choice and that will change if web developers don't use the non-standard stuff in Internet explorer.
Anyways, I use and love Firefox.
Oh and now a conspiracy thought(get your tin foil hats out)... Why is the EU attacking the U.S. owned companies in major ways?
Anyways, I use and love Firefox.
Oh and now a conspiracy thought(get your tin foil hats out)... Why is the EU attacking the U.S. owned companies in major ways?
Duncan_Idah0
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- May 29, 2008
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The funny thing is that apparently this has come late to the Win 7 launch as there was no options... I guess once the EU is satisfied we'll be ready for win 8 :X
Yoder54
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- Dec 16, 2008
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[citation][nom]Abrahm[/nom] Why is it that it's no issue for Apple to bundle Safari with OSX, or Ubuntu to bundle FireFox, but it's not fair for Microsoft to bundle IE? Something isn't right here.It's a shame that Microsoft is forced to put up with this crap.[/citation]
I think it goes back to the early fights with Opera. MS went out of it's way to make sure the Opera didn't run on a Windows OS at one point. Opera sued and won. Opera still doesn't work all that well with Windows. Consequently, Opera has the ear of the EU and they want more of the market share.
I don't understand why MS can't just say: "Hey, here is our OS and our browser. Take it or leave it." My money is that the European consumer would say..."we will take it." It is the EU that has a real bone to pick with MS...or almost any other American firm that dominates it's niche.
I think it goes back to the early fights with Opera. MS went out of it's way to make sure the Opera didn't run on a Windows OS at one point. Opera sued and won. Opera still doesn't work all that well with Windows. Consequently, Opera has the ear of the EU and they want more of the market share.
I don't understand why MS can't just say: "Hey, here is our OS and our browser. Take it or leave it." My money is that the European consumer would say..."we will take it." It is the EU that has a real bone to pick with MS...or almost any other American firm that dominates it's niche.
bunz_of_steel
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- Dec 10, 2008
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I agree with mitch074 and the rest of you DA's are livin in the basement at Mom and Dads house still. Why do you think everybody wants the freedom of choice u DAMF?? STFU. You like using IE???....wow. mmitch074 hit the nail on the head about IE causing alota pop issues, security breaches, and the fact that you can't uninstall it. If I did that they call it a root kit. IE is the most used browser and it has the least addons and only works the way Micro$uk wants it to. There's no innovation or creativity like there is with FireFox. Who makes these addons??? not Microsuk but regular guys who want to add a feature to their browsing experience. IE suks major! Homeland security recommends using something other than IE...hmmm. Use ie you DA's and get all the adverts and pop ups and then complain like whiney babies.
[citation][nom]Abrahm[/nom]... Why is it that it's no issue for Apple to bundle Safari with OSX, or Ubuntu to bundle FireFox, but it's not fair for Microsoft to bundle IE? Something isn't right here.It's a shame that Microsoft is forced to put up with this crap.[/citation]
I see your point of view. And you have valid argument about it. The problem with your reasoning is that it is based on misunderstanding between "bundling" and "pre-installing"
Firefox and Safari are pre-installed only. They can be removed if anybody wishes to do.
IE on other hand is bundled. It can NOT be removed from my system even if I wish to do so.
Microsoft had 'good' reason for doing this. Here good it is good only for them and it is bad for everybody else. That is why they got in hot water with EU. They have done great deal of damage and they now are made to pay. It might look like harsh and unfair, but in reality they know very well it is very small price to pay. If they have been treated unfair they could continue the fight in the court, or if they believe that are prosecuted they could pull Windows of the EU market, but they don't. They know it is their best interest to settle this one.
I see your point of view. And you have valid argument about it. The problem with your reasoning is that it is based on misunderstanding between "bundling" and "pre-installing"
Firefox and Safari are pre-installed only. They can be removed if anybody wishes to do.
IE on other hand is bundled. It can NOT be removed from my system even if I wish to do so.
Microsoft had 'good' reason for doing this. Here good it is good only for them and it is bad for everybody else. That is why they got in hot water with EU. They have done great deal of damage and they now are made to pay. It might look like harsh and unfair, but in reality they know very well it is very small price to pay. If they have been treated unfair they could continue the fight in the court, or if they believe that are prosecuted they could pull Windows of the EU market, but they don't. They know it is their best interest to settle this one.
jjchmiel78
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- Mar 27, 2009
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What Microsoft should do is make a bunch of features that is legal in the US for there OS free only to US customers. Make them excelant, desirable, and well known how great they are. Make sure it is well advertised these feature are unavailable to European customers due to fear of EU litigation. Instead of complying all the time, convince the euro consumer to make their voices heard. In the end all this does is hurt them in the first place. The uneducated consumer will care less, and the educated still have the option to install what they like on the Windows OS. And to all those that are Mac and Linux fans, yes they are nice to work with and can a lot, but as soon as your beloved OS crosses the 50% popular point, I would bet my life they start experiencing problems like Microsoft.
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]I see your point of view. And you have valid argument about it. The problem with your reasoning is that it is based on misunderstanding between "bundling" and "pre-installing"Firefox and Safari are pre-installed only. They can be removed if anybody wishes to do. IE on other hand is bundled. It can NOT be removed from my system even if I wish to do so.Microsoft had 'good' reason for doing this. Here good it is good only for them and it is bad for everybody else. That is why they got in hot water with EU. They have done great deal of damage and they now are made to pay. It might look like harsh and unfair, but in reality they know very well it is very small price to pay. If they have been treated unfair they could continue the fight in the court, or if they believe that are prosecuted they could pull Windows of the EU market, but they don't. They know it is their best interest to settle this one.[/citation]
Integrating a browser with the OS is MSs choice, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Simples.
If I wanted a large undemocratic body to decide what I can/cannot buy, I would go and live in China.
Integrating a browser with the OS is MSs choice, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Simples.
If I wanted a large undemocratic body to decide what I can/cannot buy, I would go and live in China.
[citation][nom]rtfm[/nom]Integrating a browser with the OS is MSs choice, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Simples.If I wanted a large undemocratic body to decide what I can/cannot buy, I would go and live in China.[/citation]
Exactly. When this case started you can not buy PC without Windows Installed on it. Even today is very difficult to buy PC without Windows. MS used their monopolistic power to force all OEMs to not sell PC with out OS pre-install. And guess what, MS get paid a license fee. I don't get refund when I wipe out the Windows and use other OS. When I can go to any store and buy PC without OS and it is cheaper then the PC with PC bundled with MS Windows MS could bundle their IE with their OS. Until then they will comply with EU. And EU is elected. Just this summer there was election in EU for EU parliament. It is your fault that you elected not to go to vote when the elections was held in UK.
Exactly. When this case started you can not buy PC without Windows Installed on it. Even today is very difficult to buy PC without Windows. MS used their monopolistic power to force all OEMs to not sell PC with out OS pre-install. And guess what, MS get paid a license fee. I don't get refund when I wipe out the Windows and use other OS. When I can go to any store and buy PC without OS and it is cheaper then the PC with PC bundled with MS Windows MS could bundle their IE with their OS. Until then they will comply with EU. And EU is elected. Just this summer there was election in EU for EU parliament. It is your fault that you elected not to go to vote when the elections was held in UK.
This whole argument is becoming simply stupid.You can easily go an download any browser you wish w/o issue. I could understand if they were preventing users from accessing another browser, but it;s not the case today. They appear to be trying to go after that segment of users that don't care (average user). If they want to go to the internet they just chose what's there (they don't care). So these other browsers are trying to be the one they initial select..even though the average user doesn't care...what a joke..i wish they had just left it off and let them fend for themselves..
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