Microsoft Talks More About Next Version of Windows

[edwd2]

Please MS just separate the desktop Windows 9 from this metro crap and design an entirely new UI that people can take seriously. I don't want smartphone-like dumbed down "modern UI apps" on my desktop; the tiles are inconvenient to browse through and visually displeasing. Windows is really becoming less of a serious OS, the "apps" I've used from the Windows Store on 8 are stuff I'd rather see on my phone, and yes I use Windows for the larger screen, serious work, and advanced software that my tablet and phone can't handle!

 

[CaedenV]

Am I the only one that likes 8.1?
I used W7 for 5 or 6 years and just recently built a new computer. I had an OEM version of W7 so I went ahead and put the 8.1 trial on this computer. I don't have a touch screen but I like the new "button" start menu -- IMO it's like having a second desktop menu. I keep all my games and system tweaking programs as small icons, stuff like uTorrent and iTunes as large icons so they're easy to click.... Also put shortcuts to directories I use often.

Overall it feels faster and cleaner than W7, while also catering more to the power user (computer knowledgeable user) than W7 did.

No, you are not alone. Win8 does have a few rough spots, but overall it is not the big annoyance that people make it out to be. It runs great on anything from an old netbook up to a new power house, have amazing memory management, pretty much never crashes unless it is a crappy driver issue (which is a hardware manufacturer issue, not a MS issue), has native VHD and VCD support, allows you to pause and resume things like file transfers, the task manager is awesome, just about every aspect of win8 is much more refined and improved over previous versions.
The part people complain about are the metro applications and the start screen. The reality is though that if there is an application I use on a regular basis then it is pinned to the start bar, if there is a game I am going to play then I launch it from Steam, and if I am going to use a program that is not as normal then I am going to do a search for it rather than trying to find it in the app list. You pretty much never see Metro except for the search screen, and the search screen is much improved over win7.

That said, if MS wants to make real money with apps then they need to get better apps in the store, and they will need to fix the start screen if we are expected to spend any real amount of time in Metro... but as far as I have seen it the metro side of the OS is rarely if ever seen for more than a second or two, so it doesn't bother me one bit. I would much rather have Metro with the improvements than stick with win7... though the idea of having a metro-style start screen and have apps like Netflix run on desktop does sound appealing, so I look forward to win9/One/Threshold/8.2 or whatever it is going to be called when it is released.

 

[LordConrad]

All Windows 9 needs is customization. Get the default behavior however you like Microsoft, but let me customize how I use my computer. Tiles on the desktop? Yes please. A start screen that isn't only for software? Yes please, the task bar and title bar of every window (including fullscreen windows aka metro apps)? Yes please. No more purple? Yes please!

Allow me to hide all traces of Modern UI and Live Tiles? Yes Please.

 

[boletus]

Will they finally get some sense? From the article, "Microsoft is working to bring Modern UI apps to the desktop, meaning they will be windowed when on the desktop."

Am I the only one that remembers Windows 3.1? If having applications only run full screen is "modern." Win 3.1 was more modern than any version of Windows since.

 

[antilycus]

You do know that all these problems MS are fixing weren't problems at all before they introduced the "Modern UI". IT's not modern at all. Windows 8 and Modern UI are probably the worst thing Microsoft has put out since Microsoft F#.... in fact, it seems to be all they really do these days. Office 365 is a completely flop (look up "something went wrong"), Exchange is dying technology that is closed source. Office 2013, crap. In fact, since Windows VIsta / 7 (same kernel mainly) I can't think of a single thing Microsoft should be applauded for. XBONE launch was a flop for PR. Server 2012 Flop. Visual Studio / .NET just rehashes of old code. Windows Azure crap.

 

[Avus]

Why a desktop OS need 2 types of application (desktop and metro)? What is the advantage of that? This is just plain stupid....

I am also betting MS will make DX12 only available for Win9 and made some BS excuse when the previous version cannot have it...

 

[rokit]

Seriously, he continues to call all this crap "modern" and it doesn't help really. Different doesn't mean modern. Get it in your heads MS. And forcing this rainbow crap though regular menu or changing desktops when choosing different program aint helpin either.
Many people who are happy with new Win crap are the ones who
a) use tablets
b) use some external(non MS) programs(not just for ui) to overcome Windows limitations.

Modern UI style applications are actually easier to develop for and run faster than the traditional Win32 application. Like I said in a previous topic on Windows 9, Microsoft will develop Modern style applications to work better in multi-tasking than they currently do in Windows 8, and possibly get rid of legacy support in Windows 9 or 10.
If that happens, I honestly don't know why many users would still cling to Windows 7 aside from legacy support. Easier development environment, easier user experience, easier UI experience, easier hardware management, equivalent multi-tasking, and better system utilization.

Just because MS can code better now than xx years ago doesn't mean they can took down/reinvent and present as new features like scalable windows or forcing the ui to people's heads on a desktop.

 

[back_by_demand]

"For desktop users, Windows will boot to the desktop when there is no touchscreen connected and a keyboard and mouse is detected. If the customer has a touch screen or tablet, then Windows will boot to the Start Screen."

I suggested this before W8 was released, I guess it takes time for a good idea to hit reality

 

[falchard]

Modern UI style applications are actually easier to develop for and run faster than the traditional Win32 application. Like I said in a previous topic on Windows 9, Microsoft will develop Modern style applications to work better in multi-tasking than they currently do in Windows 8, and possibly get rid of legacy support in Windows 9 or 10.
If that happens, I honestly don't know why many users would still cling to Windows 7 aside from legacy support. Easier development environment, easier user experience, easier UI experience, easier hardware management, equivalent multi-tasking, and better system utilization.

Just because MS can code better now than xx years ago doesn't mean they can took down/reinvent and present as new features like scalable windows or forcing the ui to people's heads on a desktop.

Microsoft's business relies on taking something no one thought was broken and attempting to make it better. If they didn't we would be using Windows 3.x right now. My point is they moved how we program down the road a bit more. Its easier and more efficient. What is missing is the multi-tasking elements that Windows traditionally offers and its in a disjointed environment. If they were to get Windows working with the more modern method for developing applications, then they would be developing a superior product. They would also be advancing UI design if they can reduce the amount of key presses it takes to do something. Currently with Windows 7 I can open up about 8 different application with 1 key press. Very efficient. However, I work with about 4 programs constantly and 2 dozen off an on throughout the day. The other programs I usually need to make 3 or 4 key presses to open. It also takes me several key presses to navigate between them with the current task bar. Using something like Windows 8 desktop UI makes my workflow a bit faster with 1 - 2 key presses for most of my multi-tasking needs.

 

[Loxias]

Windows 7 is supported untill 2020, no need to hurry

 

[red77star]

'For starters, Prophet said that the new Start Menu will be better because it will have Live Tiles and Modern UI'

This is what we don't want to. Don't bring any of that Metro <mod edit> to desktop. We want Windows 7 Start Menu and GTFO any Metro.\

<Mod Note: Let's watch our language in the forums>

 

[ya right]

Get rid of the Kernel.

Give me back my hardware resources and skip the bloatware addons.

WinDOS 9 please.

 

[ceh4702]

Business users want their business desktops to work like business desktops. They don't want their business desktops to look like a 4th grader designed it.

 

[ceh4702]

There are a lot of people not interested in full screen mode. They use multiple monitors and keep 100 windows open at a time. Modern does not mean I want 60 flashbacks or grade school blocks I can stack up on my screen or a list of 100 shortcuts on my menu. Putting things in categories and folders is a great way to organize them. Don't fix what is not broken in Windows 7!

 

[godfather666]

This is smart and (all imho) will make Windows 9 pretty popular. The people who want to remove the Metro UI altogether are missing the fact that there's a lot of value in allowing Windows to work well on touch screens. So if it can work well on both mouse/keyboard as well as touch screens, then why not? That's a huge perk in my book.

the problem with Win8 is that it ruined the whole desktop mouse/keyboard experience. This might fix it.

 

[Bloob]

There are a lot of people not interested in full screen mode. They use multiple monitors and keep 100 windows open at a time. Modern does not mean I want 60 flashbacks or grade school blocks I can stack up on my screen or a list of 100 shortcuts on my menu. Putting things in categories and folders is a great way to organize them. Don't fix what is not broken in Windows 7!

I use multiple monitors both at work and at home, never had a problem with 8, actually it has more options for multi-monitor setups. While I might no have 100 windows' open, I do usually have a fair amount, on rare occasions over 50. There are many ways to customize the start screen to organize stuff, but I do agree that the app list is a bit of a mess, but I've been rather successful in avoiding it.

There are even some modern -apps that I use sometimes, I prefer the context switch when going social, but those do work best on touch devices. Touch pad operation is still horrid.

 

[RetroSA]

Monthly subscription for a OS is completely fubar

There's no way MS is stupid enough to do that. I'm sure that would be the last push linux needs to be on the road to becoming widely adopted.

 

[Martell1977]

With Windows 8 I would have had to install a 3rd party program to get similar functionality that I have now with 7. With Windows 9, they are making the desktop like Windows 7 but with "Live Tiles" on the start menu. So...the start menu will be very similar to 7 but with programs up front on the menu, instead of neatly arranged under all programs. What's the point? Pay ~$100+ to add annoying and messy little tiles to my Start Menu?

I like my desktop and menus as clean and organized as possible, this whole "Metro" style is opposite of that, there is nothing clean or elegant to multi-colored tiles all over the place. I outgrew the Fisher-Price style about 30 years ago.

Still waiting for a compelling reason to upgrade from 7. It looks like those with 8 on a desktop would benefit from the upgrade though.
Note to MS: DX12 is not and will not be a compelling reason for me anytime soon.

 

[Guest]

I use Win 7, so I really don't get a few things. Just what exactly is a modern app? Is that like those incredibly annoying apps pre installed in android like facebook and Twitter? If so, please for the love of Christ allow us to get rid of all of it! Just give me an enhanced Windows 7 with DX 12, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Guest]

Wow!! Microsoft actually hired a marketing guy with a last name called "Prophet"!!

Prophet said.... Windows 9 should be good...
Prophet said.... All you believer should buy new Windows again....
Prophet said.... The church of Microsoft will become strong again...

This seriously made me choke on my coffee! Props, man!

 

[nocona_xeon]

I had used XP Pro (64-bit) since it first came out and until it just lost support. Back then in 2004, other techs called it a "kludge." Not for me and for 10 years time. It always ran perfectly! The first system was a dual-Xeon (Nocona) with 16GB of mem in 2004 (Supermicro X6DAE-G2 board). My C programs for DSP processing could EASILY be written to take advantage of the two processors (each with "HT" but running only two threads versus four was better due to the large data and complex math). Then, running that software plus all other programs (Photoshop, Office, HDTV, HD file editing) became even faster as the years went by as newer processors became available. I did purchase Vista when it came out and that was a HUGE mistake. I used it for one month and then tossed it to go back to XP64. Win7 I didn't even look at (I was still pissed about spending full price for Vista Ultimate). A relative has Win8 with the stupid tiles and I thought, how the hell does a professional working with CAD or me with a coding monitor (C screen) and a "program run" monitor (side by side) get anything done with that kind of GUI? So, the "tiles" are called "Metro"? Is that it? Well, it is not suitable for scientific work environments. It works great for advertising people I suppose that only need to show pretty pictures to colleagues and then elementary school kids probably like it. Worse is that the newer Visual Studio C versions won't run on Vista which is what I HAD to move to after the XP64 maintenance ended (I was running XP64 with VS2005). MS had better get their Win9 right. It would be a good idea for them to make a Win9 for professionals (looking like an XP2015 as someone said above) and then a Win9 for busy-body, talkative people that work in marketing and advertising with its stupid tiles. Does MS think that I'm going to be working with a 4K LCD that is also a touchscreen??? Like I'm going to reach out to touch it all the time and fatigue my shoulder? I'm surely not going to be carrying a 4K LCD touchscreen around like a tablet!! The people at Xerox were geniuses when they invented the mouse and GUI. STICK TO THAT! And, stick to multiple WINDOWS so professionals can get work done and not the artsy fartsy kind. Thanks for reading my rant.

 

[Bloob]

I had used XP Pro (64-bit) since it first came out and until it just lost support. Back then in 2004, other techs called it a "kludge." Not for me and for 10 years time. It always ran perfectly! The first system was a dual-Xeon (Nocona) with 16GB of mem in 2004 (Supermicro X6DAE-G2 board). My C programs for DSP processing could EASILY be written to take advantage of the two processors (each with "HT" but running only two threads versus four was better due to the large data and complex math). Then, running that software plus all other programs (Photoshop, Office, HDTV, HD file editing) became even faster as the years went by as newer processors became available. I did purchase Vista when it came out and that was a HUGE mistake. I used it for one month and then tossed it to go back to XP64. Win7 I didn't even look at (I was still pissed about spending full price for Vista Ultimate). A relative has Win8 with the stupid tiles and I thought, how the hell does a professional working with CAD or me with a coding monitor (C screen) and a "program run" monitor (side by side) get anything done with that kind of GUI? So, the "tiles" are called "Metro"? Is that it? Well, it is not suitable for scientific work environments. It works great for advertising people I suppose that only need to show pretty pictures to colleagues and then elementary school kids probably like it. Worse is that the newer Visual Studio C versions won't run on Vista which is what I HAD to move to after the XP64 maintenance ended (I was running XP64 with VS2005). MS had better get their Win9 right. It would be a good idea for them to make a Win9 for professionals (looking like an XP2015 as someone said above) and then a Win9 for busy-body, talkative people that work in marketing and advertising with its stupid tiles. Does MS think that I'm going to be working with a 4K LCD that is also a touchscreen??? Like I'm going to reach out to touch it all the time and fatigue my shoulder? I'm surely not going to be carrying a 4K LCD touchscreen around like a tablet!! The people at Xerox were geniuses when they invented the mouse and GUI. STICK TO THAT! And, stick to multiple WINDOWS so professionals can get work done and not the artsy fartsy kind. Thanks for reading my rant.

For a programmer you are terribly unfamiliar with linebreaks, you can usually apply them by hitting the 'Enter' -key.

You don't have to use the Metro/Modern part of Win 8, just stick to desktop, which has more options than ever for multiple monitors, and as many windows as you want.

 

[somebodyspecial]

rofl@people saying "all you need to do is go download this or that". Why should I have to PAY to fix what used to be there. Win8 as they said themselves is the antithesis of the power user. HELLO we are the ones that MADE YOU KING. See me in 2020 when you figure out how to get back to power users, and toss this metro crap.

Stardock etc...I already have to fix explorer even in win7 (total commander, xyplorer etc take your pick). How much exactly are us power users expected to pay to get WINDOWS to be ...umm...WINDOWS? No subscription anything will ever get me to bite either. That's an auto failure for me. DX12? Please...Maybe by 2020 when win7 runs out it will be used massively.

If DX12 is tied to win9 only, think about how long it took for win7 to take over xp. Now how long with all the current win hate will it take for win9/dx12 to get any traction? Think about how EVERYONE else is pushing OpenGL now for cross-platform (android, ios, macosx, linux, valve with steamos, ps3/ps4 easily ported also even if not quite opengl, witness all the ports on android already). If MS ties it to win9, I think OpenGL takes out DX12. It will have YEARS to get it done before win9 ever gets enough share to have devs NOT make dx11 compatible games, especially with NV massively concentrating on making dx11, well, pretty much dx12 (if only due to trying to crush reasons for mantle usage, already caught mantle in BF4 and Thief, who needs mantle?). DX11+OpenGL will hold the fort for some time especially with NV having another 7-8 months to optimize the crap out of driver overhead in DX11 etc, before we even see win9 for sale. NV will also be doing this because if they make dx11 drivers good enough they can help KILL windows and DX12, which is the point of having an entire PC built on android with an NV card, an NV Denver etc in house custom arm chip (get to kill x86 and Intel cpu sales then in return for them killing NV's chipsets, so double bonus), NVlink bus etc. They want Android to be the future of gaming with OpenGL, not DX12 with INTEL. It's just good business and common sense for NV to want the guts to all be from them, not Intel or AMD (NVlink replace hypertransport, infiniband, pcie etc). I can't wait, it's OS is free and you can pile on a copy of linux and steamos to get even more apps/games.

Microsoft might just have lost the war to android with Win8 and they appear to want to keep forcing their idea on us which will cost them even more than 21% of notebooks which already is showing damage to both sides of Wintel (empty fab for Intel in AZ, MS announcing 18000 layoffs shortly). What do you think happens as AndroidL+64bit+ 8-32GB memory, SSD/HD, 500w-1000w psu, NV discrete GPU, NV 64bit cpu all comes together in a PC like box? I'll bet at least the same 21% that left to chromebooks leaves the far more powerful desktops too. Most people don't use pro-apps on windows, and if games are over on android/steamos/linux triboots and they can already do email, browsing, content consumption (movies, music etc) and basic apps for most users, you will see a huge population that may never see windows in the future. Pro apps will follow just due to units to sell to, once games are massively over there. You're watching the WINTEL duopoly collapse. Russia making their own arm chips now due to NSA crap will kill billions of wintel sales also. Many countries go linux in part or whole due to some of the same NSA/backdoor concerns or just outright costs vs. linux (at least for people that just do basic stuff at work and don't rely on pro win apps they can't get yet on linux).

 

[rishiswaz]

Android will never thrive in a desktop environment, it is not the intended environment and is more touch-focused than Windows 8. If you get confused learning how to use simple mouse strokes for Windows 8 that my 3rd grade niece picked up in around half an hour, good luck migrating to an entirely new operating system with a worse UI (looking at you Ubuntu Unity). Sure people will agree with you on a tech forum that Linux will be the next big thing and Microsoft will fade away out of existence, but most of the consumer market isn't at that level of technical knowledge.

Exchange servers and Office will secure Windows' presence in the enterprise market because of the amount of customers already locked into the ecosystem and because for any support you still need to pay up even on Linux. Support is a big thing, if I can hire 3 people for IT to handle network and server maintenance and then redirect any OS/Office problems to MS tech support I save money and time. Linux would mean I either have to hire some dedicated Linux guys for support, or leave employees out under the bus to look online for the solution to their problems; either way it is wasted money.

I am not saying that switching to Linux would be a bad thing, it is just not ready yet and if everyone was to format their drives and switch overnight it would be a disaster. More people with MS certifications, experience, and preference. I used to use Eclipse for my programming but since I switched to MS Visual Studio I cannot go back to Eclipse, the features, documentation, support, and ecosystem/integration just make it orders of magnitude better. People don't make it better because they want to like with open source, but rather MS picks some of the best and brightest then pay them to make it better.

Microsoft has the experience and resources to pull out huge projects and take millions of dollars of risks, and still come out with positive net earnings when those risks don't pay off.

 

[Shin-san]

The Metro apps in windowed mode would entice more developers to make Metro apps. It felt terrible with some simpler apps being forced full screen.