Microsoft Talks More About Next Version of Windows

[somebodyspecial]

Android will never thrive in a desktop environment, it is not the intended environment and is more touch-focused than Windows 8. If you get confused learning how to use simple mouse strokes for Windows 8 that my 3rd grade niece picked up in around half an hour, good luck migrating to an entirely new operating system with a worse UI (looking at you Ubuntu Unity). Sure people will agree with you on a tech forum that Linux will be the next big thing and Microsoft will fade away out of existence, but most of the consumer market isn't at that level of technical knowledge.

Exchange servers and Office will secure Windows' presence in the enterprise market because of the amount of customers already locked into the ecosystem and because for any support you still need to pay up even on Linux. Support is a big thing, if I can hire 3 people for IT to handle network and server maintenance and then redirect any OS/Office problems to MS tech support I save money and time. Linux would mean I either have to hire some dedicated Linux guys for support, or leave employees out under the bus to look online for the solution to their problems; either way it is wasted money.

I am not saying that switching to Linux would be a bad thing, it is just not ready yet and if everyone was to format their drives and switch overnight it would be a disaster. More people with MS certifications, experience, and preference. I used to use Eclipse for my programming but since I switched to MS Visual Studio I cannot go back to Eclipse, the features, documentation, support, and ecosystem/integration just make it orders of magnitude better. People don't make it better because they want to like with open source, but rather MS picks some of the best and brightest then pay them to make it better.

Microsoft has the experience and resources to pull out huge projects and take millions of dollars of risks, and still come out with positive net earnings when those risks don't pay off.

You're talking as one of the people I said wouldn't leave. I'm talking about the vast majority that don't use Visual Studio etc on windows. Also I'm talking most home users that don't do much more than browse, game, email, media consumption (netflix, youtube etc). You're also talking current android, I'm talking AndroidL/SteamOS/Linux (pick flavor) triboots for home etc. 21% left for chromebooks already and AndroidL is FAR above chrome or today's android os. It's designed to go further up the chain with more features, more graphics capabilities (AEP etc) to get low-end desktops, more notebooks etc with 64bit.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/android-5-0-key-lime-pie-release-date-news-and-rumours-1091500
"It's going to have a radical new design, 5000 new APIs, will be available for developer previews soon, and it's going beyond the mobile form factor."
"Android L also allows mobile devices to further close the gap not only between mobile and console-quality gaming, but also between mobile and PC graphics. Working with Nvidia, Qualcomm, ARM and Imagination Technologies Google has designed the Android Extension Pack with the sole task of closing the gap between mobile and desktop-class graphics"

I'm not saying this trio (AndroidL, Linux, steamos) takes out all of windows, just that they are moving to take as much as possible. Casual users make up most of the home population. They aren't using Visual Studio
http://bgr.com/2014/07/15/android-l-material-design-apps/
Showing it running on a desktop monitor among others and how it looks across multiple devices.
BTW, Munich just went linux and is fine. Dumped office/windows and are saving millions. And yes, they are (in all cases where anyone tries this in foreign places) getting their own local linux help. No surprise there, tons of linux people are in countries where FREE is a great word.

Nvidia's Denver is FOR DESKTOP, sure it will run in tablets but they want it for assaulting WINTEL. Low-end stuff first, then as games base grows, apps start using the 64bit etc, maybe at 20nm they make a run at full on 4ghz style desktop towers.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/25/google-android-l-ecosystem/
"Along with that glossy new façade, though, comes the true innovation at the core of Android L's master plan: features that unite your life across your phone, smartwatch, desktop and more.

Why would it be any different than win9 that see's you're on a tablet and invokes start screen, then sees you're on desktop and goes desktop mode. They'll do something similar.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-wars-the-android-and-chrome-os-alliance-7000030943/
ZDnet article on the coming OS war for your desktop
"Merge Android's apps with Chrome OS's anyone-can-use-it interface and you have a worthy rival to Windows on the desktop."

I'm not alone thinking they are coming for the Windows Desktops. Article above written after google I/O and the writer realizing his prediction is coming true (mine too...LOL). We're not talking running PROE, Solidworks, 3DSmax or Visual Studio etc here, just taking over average users machines, which will hurt WINTEL sales quite handily until better games, 64bit apps etc catch up to the new os and hardware at 20nm etc.

"I think this means we'll see a real desktop star wars beginning late this year. The alliance of Android and Chrome OS against an aging and unpopular Windows 8.x may finally lead to Microsoft facing real desktop competition for the first time in a generation."

I agree with his statements. Valve, Google, Apple all pushing OpenGL (and all some form of linux basically), so gaming gets the first chunk and casual users of apps, then the real apps come next year and after to come for even some minor pro stuff. Adobe already upping their apps on android. By the time a full PC like box hits some really good 64bit apps using 4GB+ should be near ready or out already. I'm not saying linux will be the next big thing. I'm saying gaming over on android/linux/steamos (all of which are free for a triboot) will lead to LESS WINTEL users, apps will follow. They are merging chrome/android as the article shows. You're thinking too much about PURE linux, I'm talking all of them working together (though they just happen to all be linux based, making porting between them easy). I agree, not quite ready yet, but I'm not talking next week. This war will be years.

I'm sure RIMM thought their enterprise email would save them too. Google has enterprise solutions for that stuff and it costs business 1/6 to run it. Google has a huge market and between them and everyone else on this train they have huge resources now on their side too. Exchange and Office won't save MS on desktops.
http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/
Already replaceable and getting better yearly. 5mil business use google apps for business. For many, it's good enough already and with the move to 64bit etc and more useful boxes they'll garner more attention from business over time.

 

[nocona_xeon]

For a programmer you are terribly unfamiliar with linebreaks, you can usually apply them by hitting the 'Enter' -key.

You don't have to use the Metro/Modern part of Win 8, just stick to desktop, which has more options than ever for multiple monitors, and as many windows as you want.

[/quote]

If you are referring to my "puerile rant" that used no carriage returns, I apologize. My code structure follows a proper format (albeit from around 1992, heh). Thank you for the advice on Win8. I appreciate it.

 

[nocona_xeon]

For a programmer you are terribly unfamiliar with linebreaks, you can usually apply them by hitting the 'Enter' -key.

You don't have to use the Metro/Modern part of Win 8, just stick to desktop, which has more options than ever for multiple monitors, and as many windows as you want.

[/quote]

If you are referring to my "puerile rant" that used no carriage returns, I apologize. My code structure follows a proper format (albeit from around 1992, heh). Thank you for the advice on Win8. I appreciate it.

 

[nocona_xeon]

For a programmer you are terribly unfamiliar with linebreaks, you can usually apply them by hitting the 'Enter' -key.

You don't have to use the Metro/Modern part of Win 8, just stick to desktop, which has more options than ever for multiple monitors, and as many windows as you want.

[/quote]

If you are referring to my "puerile rant" that used no carriage returns, I apologize. My code structure follows a proper format (albeit from around 1992, heh). Thank you for the advice on Win8. I appreciate it.

 

[nocona_xeon]

For a programmer you are terribly unfamiliar with linebreaks, you can usually apply them by hitting the 'Enter' -key.

You don't have to use the Metro/Modern part of Win 8, just stick to desktop, which has more options than ever for multiple monitors, and as many windows as you want.

[/quote]

If you are referring to my "puerile rant" that used no carriage returns, I apologize. My code structure follows a proper format (albeit from around 1992, heh). Thank you for the advice on Win8. I appreciate it.

 

[rantoc]

What about the rumors of Subscription? If so i will pass, every other windows is garbage and once your on sub... good luck keeping what version you like!

 

[rantoc]

Frankly, i hate companies that try to reinvent the wheel in a square shape and have the guts to even call themselves innovative.

Why is Windows loosing OS market share slowly? Because people don't like square wheels!

 

[Zeroplanetz]

Just bring back the ability to store apps on my micro SD card in 8.1 (rt)!!!!! Damn. Don't know why you took it away.

 

[rishiswaz]

Android will never thrive in a desktop environment, it is not the intended environment and is more touch-focused than Windows 8. If you get confused learning how to use simple mouse strokes for Windows 8 that my 3rd grade niece picked up in around half an hour, good luck migrating to an entirely new operating system with a worse UI (looking at you Ubuntu Unity). Sure people will agree with you on a tech forum that Linux will be the next big thing and Microsoft will fade away out of existence, but most of the consumer market isn't at that level of technical knowledge.

Exchange servers and Office will secure Windows' presence in the enterprise market because of the amount of customers already locked into the ecosystem and because for any support you still need to pay up even on Linux. Support is a big thing, if I can hire 3 people for IT to handle network and server maintenance and then redirect any OS/Office problems to MS tech support I save money and time. Linux would mean I either have to hire some dedicated Linux guys for support, or leave employees out under the bus to look online for the solution to their problems; either way it is wasted money.

I am not saying that switching to Linux would be a bad thing, it is just not ready yet and if everyone was to format their drives and switch overnight it would be a disaster. More people with MS certifications, experience, and preference. I used to use Eclipse for my programming but since I switched to MS Visual Studio I cannot go back to Eclipse, the features, documentation, support, and ecosystem/integration just make it orders of magnitude better. People don't make it better because they want to like with open source, but rather MS picks some of the best and brightest then pay them to make it better.

Microsoft has the experience and resources to pull out huge projects and take millions of dollars of risks, and still come out with positive net earnings when those risks don't pay off.

You're talking as one of the people I said wouldn't leave. I'm talking about the vast majority that don't use Visual Studio etc on windows. Also I'm talking most home users that don't do much more than browse, game, email, media consumption (netflix, youtube etc). You're also talking current android, I'm talking AndroidL/SteamOS/Linux (pick flavor) triboots for home etc. 21% left for chromebooks already and AndroidL is FAR above chrome or today's android os. It's designed to go further up the chain with more features, more graphics capabilities (AEP etc) to get low-end desktops, more notebooks etc with 64bit.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/android-5-0-key-lime-pie-release-date-news-and-rumours-1091500
"It's going to have a radical new design, 5000 new APIs, will be available for developer previews soon, and it's going beyond the mobile form factor."
"Android L also allows mobile devices to further close the gap not only between mobile and console-quality gaming, but also between mobile and PC graphics. Working with Nvidia, Qualcomm, ARM and Imagination Technologies Google has designed the Android Extension Pack with the sole task of closing the gap between mobile and desktop-class graphics"

I'm not saying this trio (AndroidL, Linux, steamos) takes out all of windows, just that they are moving to take as much as possible. Casual users make up most of the home population. They aren't using Visual Studio
http://bgr.com/2014/07/15/android-l-material-design-apps/
Showing it running on a desktop monitor among others and how it looks across multiple devices.
BTW, Munich just went linux and is fine. Dumped office/windows and are saving millions. And yes, they are (in all cases where anyone tries this in foreign places) getting their own local linux help. No surprise there, tons of linux people are in countries where FREE is a great word.

Nvidia's Denver is FOR DESKTOP, sure it will run in tablets but they want it for assaulting WINTEL. Low-end stuff first, then as games base grows, apps start using the 64bit etc, maybe at 20nm they make a run at full on 4ghz style desktop towers.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/25/google-android-l-ecosystem/
"Along with that glossy new façade, though, comes the true innovation at the core of Android L's master plan: features that unite your life across your phone, smartwatch, desktop and more.

Why would it be any different than win9 that see's you're on a tablet and invokes start screen, then sees you're on desktop and goes desktop mode. They'll do something similar.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-wars-the-android-and-chrome-os-alliance-7000030943/
ZDnet article on the coming OS war for your desktop
"Merge Android's apps with Chrome OS's anyone-can-use-it interface and you have a worthy rival to Windows on the desktop."

I'm not alone thinking they are coming for the Windows Desktops. Article above written after google I/O and the writer realizing his prediction is coming true (mine too...LOL). We're not talking running PROE, Solidworks, 3DSmax or Visual Studio etc here, just taking over average users machines, which will hurt WINTEL sales quite handily until better games, 64bit apps etc catch up to the new os and hardware at 20nm etc.

"I think this means we'll see a real desktop star wars beginning late this year. The alliance of Android and Chrome OS against an aging and unpopular Windows 8.x may finally lead to Microsoft facing real desktop competition for the first time in a generation."

I agree with his statements. Valve, Google, Apple all pushing OpenGL (and all some form of linux basically), so gaming gets the first chunk and casual users of apps, then the real apps come next year and after to come for even some minor pro stuff. Adobe already upping their apps on android. By the time a full PC like box hits some really good 64bit apps using 4GB+ should be near ready or out already. I'm not saying linux will be the next big thing. I'm saying gaming over on android/linux/steamos (all of which are free for a triboot) will lead to LESS WINTEL users, apps will follow. They are merging chrome/android as the article shows. You're thinking too much about PURE linux, I'm talking all of them working together (though they just happen to all be linux based, making porting between them easy). I agree, not quite ready yet, but I'm not talking next week. This war will be years.

I'm sure RIMM thought their enterprise email would save them too. Google has enterprise solutions for that stuff and it costs business 1/6 to run it. Google has a huge market and between them and everyone else on this train they have huge resources now on their side too. Exchange and Office won't save MS on desktops.
http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/
Already replaceable and getting better yearly. 5mil business use google apps for business. For many, it's good enough already and with the move to 64bit etc and more useful boxes they'll garner more attention from business over time.

I see your point for the home user but I was referencing that enterprise/business will probably retain Windows. Autodesk doesn't even have most of their products for Mac OS, Windows only. I feel that over time the .NET overhead will decrease as the kernel matures and professional adoption will stay constant. Server is already Linux dominated and desktop market does have potential for Linux, I am not saying that Windows is superior to Linux distributions but as of now it is not really ready for consumer adoption. For Linux/UNIX systems as of now your best bet is a Mac; it is simple, clean, and has a great and easy support network, the only problem is the cost. I personally don't use android because there are settings I would never change on my phone and I don't use many apps and those that I use were available on Windows Phone all at a lower price for a flagship device; likewise there will be a natural market split once people start finding Linux based PCs more attractive for consumer use.

 

[childofthekorn]

rofl@people saying "all you need to do is go download this or that". Why should I have to PAY to fix what used to be there. Win8 as they said themselves is the antithesis of the power user. HELLO we are the ones that MADE YOU KING. See me in 2020 when you figure out how to get back to power users, and toss this metro crap.

Stardock etc...I already have to fix explorer even in win7 (total commander, xyplorer etc take your pick). How much exactly are us power users expected to pay to get WINDOWS to be ...umm...WINDOWS? No subscription anything will ever get me to bite either. That's an auto failure for me. DX12? Please...Maybe by 2020 when win7 runs out it will be used massively.

If DX12 is tied to win9 only, think about how long it took for win7 to take over xp. Now how long with all the current win hate will it take for win9/dx12 to get any traction? Think about how EVERYONE else is pushing OpenGL now for cross-platform (android, ios, macosx, linux, valve with steamos, ps3/ps4 easily ported also even if not quite opengl, witness all the ports on android already). If MS ties it to win9, I think OpenGL takes out DX12. It will have YEARS to get it done before win9 ever gets enough share to have devs NOT make dx11 compatible games, especially with NV massively concentrating on making dx11, well, pretty much dx12 (if only due to trying to crush reasons for mantle usage, already caught mantle in BF4 and Thief, who needs mantle?). DX11+OpenGL will hold the fort for some time especially with NV having another 7-8 months to optimize the crap out of driver overhead in DX11 etc, before we even see win9 for sale. NV will also be doing this because if they make dx11 drivers good enough they can help KILL windows and DX12, which is the point of having an entire PC built on android with an NV card, an NV Denver etc in house custom arm chip (get to kill x86 and Intel cpu sales then in return for them killing NV's chipsets, so double bonus), NVlink bus etc. They want Android to be the future of gaming with OpenGL, not DX12 with INTEL. It's just good business and common sense for NV to want the guts to all be from them, not Intel or AMD (NVlink replace hypertransport, infiniband, pcie etc). I can't wait, it's OS is free and you can pile on a copy of linux and steamos to get even more apps/games.

Microsoft might just have lost the war to android with Win8 and they appear to want to keep forcing their idea on us which will cost them even more than 21% of notebooks which already is showing damage to both sides of Wintel (empty fab for Intel in AZ, MS announcing 18000 layoffs shortly). What do you think happens as AndroidL+64bit+ 8-32GB memory, SSD/HD, 500w-1000w psu, NV discrete GPU, NV 64bit cpu all comes together in a PC like box? I'll bet at least the same 21% that left to chromebooks leaves the far more powerful desktops too. Most people don't use pro-apps on windows, and if games are over on android/steamos/linux triboots and they can already do email, browsing, content consumption (movies, music etc) and basic apps for most users, you will see a huge population that may never see windows in the future. Pro apps will follow just due to units to sell to, once games are massively over there. You're watching the WINTEL duopoly collapse. Russia making their own arm chips now due to NSA crap will kill billions of wintel sales also. Many countries go linux in part or whole due to some of the same NSA/backdoor concerns or just outright costs vs. linux (at least for people that just do basic stuff at work and don't rely on pro win apps they can't get yet on linux).

Power users aren't typically held back by the GUI. Its just as functional as 7 with added features. The tiles are an annoyance but easily worked around. If a 2 second FREE download to bring back your beloved start menu (and auto boot to desktop) is too much, just revert back to 7 or ask for a refund as you are dissatisfied with the product.

 

[somebodyspecial]

rofl@people saying "all you need to do is go download this or that". Why should I have to PAY to fix what used to be there. Win8 as they said themselves is the antithesis of the power user. HELLO we are the ones that MADE YOU KING. See me in 2020 when you figure out how to get back to power users, and toss this metro crap.

Stardock etc...I already have to fix explorer even in win7 (total commander, xyplorer etc take your pick). How much exactly are us power users expected to pay to get WINDOWS to be ...umm...WINDOWS? No subscription anything will ever get me to bite either. That's an auto failure for me. DX12? Please...Maybe by 2020 when win7 runs out it will be used massively.

If DX12 is tied to win9 only, think about how long it took for win7 to take over xp. Now how long with all the current win hate will it take for win9/dx12 to get any traction? Think about how EVERYONE else is pushing OpenGL now for cross-platform (android, ios, macosx, linux, valve with steamos, ps3/ps4 easily ported also even if not quite opengl, witness all the ports on android already). If MS ties it to win9, I think OpenGL takes out DX12. It will have YEARS to get it done before win9 ever gets enough share to have devs NOT make dx11 compatible games, especially with NV massively concentrating on making dx11, well, pretty much dx12 (if only due to trying to crush reasons for mantle usage, already caught mantle in BF4 and Thief, who needs mantle?). DX11+OpenGL will hold the fort for some time especially with NV having another 7-8 months to optimize the crap out of driver overhead in DX11 etc, before we even see win9 for sale. NV will also be doing this because if they make dx11 drivers good enough they can help KILL windows and DX12, which is the point of having an entire PC built on android with an NV card, an NV Denver etc in house custom arm chip (get to kill x86 and Intel cpu sales then in return for them killing NV's chipsets, so double bonus), NVlink bus etc. They want Android to be the future of gaming with OpenGL, not DX12 with INTEL. It's just good business and common sense for NV to want the guts to all be from them, not Intel or AMD (NVlink replace hypertransport, infiniband, pcie etc). I can't wait, it's OS is free and you can pile on a copy of linux and steamos to get even more apps/games.

Microsoft might just have lost the war to android with Win8 and they appear to want to keep forcing their idea on us which will cost them even more than 21% of notebooks which already is showing damage to both sides of Wintel (empty fab for Intel in AZ, MS announcing 18000 layoffs shortly). What do you think happens as AndroidL+64bit+ 8-32GB memory, SSD/HD, 500w-1000w psu, NV discrete GPU, NV 64bit cpu all comes together in a PC like box? I'll bet at least the same 21% that left to chromebooks leaves the far more powerful desktops too. Most people don't use pro-apps on windows, and if games are over on android/steamos/linux triboots and they can already do email, browsing, content consumption (movies, music etc) and basic apps for most users, you will see a huge population that may never see windows in the future. Pro apps will follow just due to units to sell to, once games are massively over there. You're watching the WINTEL duopoly collapse. Russia making their own arm chips now due to NSA crap will kill billions of wintel sales also. Many countries go linux in part or whole due to some of the same NSA/backdoor concerns or just outright costs vs. linux (at least for people that just do basic stuff at work and don't rely on pro win apps they can't get yet on linux).

Power users aren't typically held back by the GUI. Its just as functional as 7 with added features. The tiles are an annoyance but easily worked around. If a 2 second FREE download to bring back your beloved start menu (and auto boot to desktop) is too much, just revert back to 7 or ask for a refund as you are dissatisfied with the product.

You do realize they themselves said that win8 is the antithesis of the power user, right? It's the power users that ARE held back by the gui as MS noted themselves verbally. It's not just about the start menu or boot to desktop. I didn't pay for win8, no need to ask for a refund, and I reverted back in about 2-3 weeks. It was such a success they fired the guy that was in charge of it the week it was released I wouldn't pay money for something that gets in my way in any shape or form. Time is money and win8 wastes my time just as MS said it would Did I say anything about the start menu? But ok, yeah that's a problem too. Out of my whole posts, you get that my problem is my "beloved start menu"? ROFL.

 

[childofthekorn]

rofl@people saying "all you need to do is go download this or that". Why should I have to PAY to fix what used to be there. Win8 as they said themselves is the antithesis of the power user. HELLO we are the ones that MADE YOU KING. See me in 2020 when you figure out how to get back to power users, and toss this metro crap.

Stardock etc...I already have to fix explorer even in win7 (total commander, xyplorer etc take your pick). How much exactly are us power users expected to pay to get WINDOWS to be ...umm...WINDOWS? No subscription anything will ever get me to bite either. That's an auto failure for me. DX12? Please...Maybe by 2020 when win7 runs out it will be used massively.

If DX12 is tied to win9 only, think about how long it took for win7 to take over xp. Now how long with all the current win hate will it take for win9/dx12 to get any traction? Think about how EVERYONE else is pushing OpenGL now for cross-platform (android, ios, macosx, linux, valve with steamos, ps3/ps4 easily ported also even if not quite opengl, witness all the ports on android already). If MS ties it to win9, I think OpenGL takes out DX12. It will have YEARS to get it done before win9 ever gets enough share to have devs NOT make dx11 compatible games, especially with NV massively concentrating on making dx11, well, pretty much dx12 (if only due to trying to crush reasons for mantle usage, already caught mantle in BF4 and Thief, who needs mantle?). DX11+OpenGL will hold the fort for some time especially with NV having another 7-8 months to optimize the crap out of driver overhead in DX11 etc, before we even see win9 for sale. NV will also be doing this because if they make dx11 drivers good enough they can help KILL windows and DX12, which is the point of having an entire PC built on android with an NV card, an NV Denver etc in house custom arm chip (get to kill x86 and Intel cpu sales then in return for them killing NV's chipsets, so double bonus), NVlink bus etc. They want Android to be the future of gaming with OpenGL, not DX12 with INTEL. It's just good business and common sense for NV to want the guts to all be from them, not Intel or AMD (NVlink replace hypertransport, infiniband, pcie etc). I can't wait, it's OS is free and you can pile on a copy of linux and steamos to get even more apps/games.

Microsoft might just have lost the war to android with Win8 and they appear to want to keep forcing their idea on us which will cost them even more than 21% of notebooks which already is showing damage to both sides of Wintel (empty fab for Intel in AZ, MS announcing 18000 layoffs shortly). What do you think happens as AndroidL+64bit+ 8-32GB memory, SSD/HD, 500w-1000w psu, NV discrete GPU, NV 64bit cpu all comes together in a PC like box? I'll bet at least the same 21% that left to chromebooks leaves the far more powerful desktops too. Most people don't use pro-apps on windows, and if games are over on android/steamos/linux triboots and they can already do email, browsing, content consumption (movies, music etc) and basic apps for most users, you will see a huge population that may never see windows in the future. Pro apps will follow just due to units to sell to, once games are massively over there. You're watching the WINTEL duopoly collapse. Russia making their own arm chips now due to NSA crap will kill billions of wintel sales also. Many countries go linux in part or whole due to some of the same NSA/backdoor concerns or just outright costs vs. linux (at least for people that just do basic stuff at work and don't rely on pro win apps they can't get yet on linux).

Power users aren't typically held back by the GUI. Its just as functional as 7 with added features. The tiles are an annoyance but easily worked around. If a 2 second FREE download to bring back your beloved start menu (and auto boot to desktop) is too much, just revert back to 7 or ask for a refund as you are dissatisfied with the product.

You do realize they themselves said that win8 is the antithesis of the power user, right? It's the power users that ARE held back by the gui as MS noted themselves verbally. It's not just about the start menu or boot to desktop. I didn't pay for win8, no need to ask for a refund, and I reverted back in about 2-3 weeks. It was such a success they fired the guy that was in charge of it the week it was released I wouldn't pay money for something that gets in my way in any shape or form. Time is money and win8 wastes my time just as MS said it would Did I say anything about the start menu? But ok, yeah that's a problem too. Out of my whole posts, you get that my problem is my "beloved start menu"? ROFL.

Sinofsky was a douche with out of touch leadership. He tried to cut corners and make one OS for 3 different types of devices and didn't communicate properly as he was supposed to, he got what was coming to him. I have yet to be held back as Run commands still function properly. Microsoft is of course going to damage control by saying what their customers hate, otherwise the mantra that "M$ doesn't listen" will continue to grow. My only gripe is the whole "Run as Administrator" when already on an administrator account, they need to do away with the boogie man "hidden" admin account already.

DX12 will be backwards compatible with even DX11 hardware. It would be illogical for it to be tied to win9 only, especially since the changes going from, I believe, XP to Vista. Yet it is Microsoft so I won't be holding my breath.

 

[somebodyspecial]

snipped.

Power users aren't typically held back by the GUI. Its just as functional as 7 with added features. The tiles are an annoyance but easily worked around. If a 2 second FREE download to bring back your beloved start menu (and auto boot to desktop) is too much, just revert back to 7 or ask for a refund as you are dissatisfied with the product.

You do realize they themselves said that win8 is the antithesis of the power user, right? It's the power users that ARE held back by the gui as MS noted themselves verbally. It's not just about the start menu or boot to desktop. I didn't pay for win8, no need to ask for a refund, and I reverted back in about 2-3 weeks. It was such a success they fired the guy that was in charge of it the week it was released I wouldn't pay money for something that gets in my way in any shape or form. Time is money and win8 wastes my time just as MS said it would Did I say anything about the start menu? But ok, yeah that's a problem too. Out of my whole posts, you get that my problem is my "beloved start menu"? ROFL.

Sinofsky was a douche with out of touch leadership. He tried to cut corners and make one OS for 3 different types of devices and didn't communicate properly as he was supposed to, he got what was coming to him. I have yet to be held back as Run commands still function properly. Microsoft is of course going to damage control by saying what their customers hate, otherwise the mantra that "M$ doesn't listen" will continue to grow. My only gripe is the whole "Run as Administrator" when already on an administrator account, they need to do away with the boogie man "hidden" admin account already.

DX12 will be backwards compatible with even DX11 hardware. It would be illogical for it to be tied to win9 only, especially since the changes going from, I believe, XP to Vista. Yet it is Microsoft so I won't be holding my breath.

That isn't the same thing. It will run a different code path. You won't be loading DX12 on win7 is my point. Just like you don't load DX10 or 11 on Winxp. They are stuck with DX9 paths. I'm not sure you'll be able to load dX12 on win8 either. They may make it win9 only to get you to go upgrade. They've done it before and will probably try again because win7 is looking like their next XP fiasco IF NV keeps upping the dx11 drivers they'll have an even tougher time selling win9/dx12. If OpenGL gets pushed successfully by AndroidL, iOS, steamOS, linux before DX12 sells enough OS's that support it (again probably only win9 for a while to nudge people) then DX may just end up going down as OpenGL works everywhere and the devs would definitely prefer one API that is OPEN over paying any attention to DX12. Portability is king these days and getting even more important.