Microsoft to Give EU Users a Browser Choice

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Can`t this EU commision be sued for stupidity or smth ? what now ? they`re the supreme power of the world and the world has to do what their dicks want ? It`s clerly they are doing a shitting job here ? Is there now way to make them stop ? they have the supreme power do do antyhing ???
 
Loom, thank you, thank you very much for your comment.
I was so disappointed when I read all the other comments before. I didn't know until now that thg users write unthoughtful(or even hateful, or absurd "eu-communistic") comments with unnecessary words like "idiots"... .
Like IzzyCraft I'd like to point out that there are a lot of windows users out there who don't know anything about alternatives. Of course you can advertise them, but at this monopoly status it is quite hard to be efficient enough.

 
[citation][nom]hans dr franz[/nom]Loom, thank you, thank you very much for your comment.I was so disappointed when I read all the other comments before. I didn't know until now that thg users write unthoughtful(or even hateful, or absurd "eu-communistic") comments with unnecessary words like "idiots"... .Like IzzyCraft I'd like to point out that there are a lot of windows users out there who don't know anything about alternatives. Of course you can advertise them, but at this monopoly status it is quite hard to be efficient enough.[/citation]and Why in the hell do you tell Ferrari to install a Porsche engine ? It`s their fukin own OS, and it comes with w/e the company wants to come, you have no right to tell them to install software from the competition .. this is fukin absurd. And i wouldn`t be surprised next that Mozilla will sue MS because they taken their browser and integrated it with Windows thus violating god knows what License Agreement.
 
Honestly I'd rather have had microsoft just not give us europeans any browser at all. That is effectively leaving us with a choice after all.

ps. I wouldn't want to replace a ferrari engine with one from a porche, but I sure wouldn't mind a ferrari v10 in my vectra :)
 
@ohim: Loom said it well, monopolies have special, just-for-them regulations to ensure a form of free market (this is what 'capitalism' is about, see - 'communism' is the ultimate form of monopoly: a state monopoly; go read a good book on Economy 101, and you'll see here that the EC actually enforce capitalism, while the US High Court didn't - have a look at a complete definition of 'lobbies' or 'pressure groups in economy' while you're at it).

Ferrari doesn't have a monopoly on sports cars; moreover, a browser isn't a required part to use a computer (think 'server'), so your analogy would work best this way:

If Ferrari had a monopoly on sports cars and forced a broken down GPS bolted on the dashboard on the buyer, someone would surely complain about it, and want it removed and replaced with a working GPS of his own choice; the answer that most posters seem to favor here is that since it's a Ferrari GPS, and that they know better, you should use it, and keep it there; you can still get another GPS that you'll stick on the windshield (the original broken GPS would still shout "wrong way - wrong way - wrong way" all the time, because it can't be unplugged nor turned off).

Would it feel wrong for, say, TomTom to file a complaint to the EC for monopoly abuse? For Ferrari owners to complain that they paid good money for a sports car, and can't even unplug a non-essential component (that doesn't even work right) to put theirs in its place?

About other built-in elements: interestingly, one used to be able to remove MS notepad, calculator and media player from Windows to put their own in place; this is no longer possible.
 
i wasn`t refering to any monopoly at all with the ferrari neither their speeds, i was just pointing out how stupid is to make a Company take away something they produce and install something from the competition. Seems antitrust and monopoly is exploited to force succesfull companyes that produce their own stuff to lay low and advertise the competition.

I hate monopoly but this is plain stupid to force MS on their own platform to include competing products. Shall i program a clock for windows and sue MS for includig a clock into their OS thus driving me out of bussines?
 
BTW i find it OK to have option to uninstall IE but i don`t find it normal to bundle Windows with FF , for starters i hate FF and use Opera so i would piss on the bloated windows disk that has FF bundeled in it. Anyway looking forward for Total Commander to sue MS for Windows Explorer, maybe soon we will see MS forced to only release the Kernel.
 
[citation][nom]neiroatopelcc[/nom]Honestly I'd rather have had microsoft just not give us europeans any browser at all. That is effectively leaving us with a choice after all. ps. I wouldn't want to replace a ferrari engine with one from a porche, but I sure wouldn't mind a ferrari v10 in my vectra[/citation]
I'd like a V2 with a porsche or ferrari engine 😉

Yes, a OS without a browser would be a fair thing - no discussions about which browser do have the right to be an install-option. The problem (as commented in some earlier news, where microsoft first reaction of this regulation was to install no browsers) is that normal users can't download a browser without a browser 🙂
 
[citation][nom]hans dr franz[/nom]I'd like a V2 with a porsche or ferrari engine Yes, a OS without a browser would be a fair thing - no discussions about which browser do have the right to be an install-option. The problem (as commented in some earlier news, where microsoft first reaction of this regulation was to install no browsers) is that normal users can't download a browser without a browser 🙂[/citation]
True, but at least it would remove the discussion about who is to maintain the browser list, and what requirements and funding issues are associated with such list.
 
I am European and I think that EU has gone mad. I've never used IE and I have no intention to use it, but forcing Microsoft to do this is ridiculous. It's their OS and they can give their customers for free whatever they feel like to, and are not obliged to fulfill wishes of every whining developer out there (yes you Opera). And why EU don't force Apple to do the same thing then?
 
We are not stupid in Europe. We know that Apple and Linux are including Safari or FireFox in their OS install software. Microsoft is doing right so customers from Europe can upgrade XP or Vista other way they need a clean install. I’m from Europe and I do not like what The European Commission is doing. Internet Explorer is integrated part of the software and has right to be part of installation like Windows Media Center.
If customer does not like Microsoft IE so he / she can choose to install Linux or MacOs with respectively included internet browser.
 
FireFox – Freeze at startup. Sometimes I must wait 2 -3 minutes.
Safari – Has problem with Adobe Flesh. If you open 3 or 4 new safari windows it going to be very slow and freeze all the time for 1 -2 minutes and using huge amount of memory.
Opera – Problems with DHTML, js and images. I’m trying every new version and giving up after few hours.
Chrome – I was using it 2 or 3 times. It is fest. I must test it
IE – All know what is good and bad in it.
 
I wish MS did pull the IE out of the EU version of Windows 7.

Then people would be FORCED to find a browser. Then, if I was MS, I would charge the Europeans a price for IE if they wanted it. Better yet, every browser in Europe could be set at a price. Think about it, other browsers are free because you already had a free browser, at that point getting a different browser is a "Want". If you don't have a browser, then it becomes getting a browser becomes a "Need".

Need and Wants, basic economics.
 
@KT_Wasp: no, other browsers aren't all 'free' (as in beer) because IE is free; Firefox is free (as in beer AND as in speech) because the Mozilla Foundation pursued, from the onset, a goal to 'better the Web' through open collaboration - which requires FOSS to be efficient.

You could argue, though, that Mozilla exists because Netscape didn't want to die out completely; that's fair, so I'll take the next example.

Chrome and Safari are both based off the KDE project's KHTML engine, and Safari at least still uses code from KJS (KDE's Javascript engine); so, Chrome and Safari are both based off (and still largely made from) FOSS code.

So, even if people were FORCED to find a browser, they could get a free, gratis one - but not IE.

Which would be really great.

Now, Windows 7 won't be shipped with other browsers: it'll be shipped with a browser installer, a piece of code that can download a package from the Intarwebz for you to install. This subtle distinction has 2 consequences:

- you'll always get a recent browser since the latest package will be the one downloaded,

- there will be no chance of license problems (some browsers don't allow shipping with software using a different license than their own).
 
I think it's completely unfair that only Microsoft free games are included in Windows. Sure, minesweeper and Solitaire are fun but there are tons of other free games out on the Internet that people may never try because they only use the ones Microsoft bundles.

I'm going to petition the EU into forcing Microsoft to have a ballot screen for which free games I want to install with Windows. Not only should I be able to select other games entirely, but the system should COMPLETELY remove the Microsoft games from the same system so I'm not tempted to play them by accident down the road.
 
The EU is blocking this 3rd party cause PPL CAN MAKE MONEY out of it. Thats it, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Hmm lets see IE is free,Firefox is free, opera is free...where are they making all this loads of cash? All I see is arguing over free stuff. It's like a beggar complaining that he got $1.00 worth of nickles rather than $1.00 worth of quarters. Seems rather silly to me.
 
Firefox is the browser your lazy tech installs on your machine when your "internet isn't working, it's too slow!". Your lazy tech says "hey, I'll fix that" and 40 dollars later and 5 minutes worth of work plus 50 minutes of blabbing about nothing, you have internet. Gotta love our patch society. And btw, if you disagree, you're just not trying to see it.
Click to expand...
Well, Most IE related problems come from poorly made browser bars and other ad-ons that everyone says "YES" to. Once those are gone, IE almost always works normal again. I have never had a case where the only option was to install firefox. i DO use firefox(and guess what, IE works fine too), before that, the Mozilla browser(once it was discontinued, i moved to FF).
 
"Anyway looking forward for Total Commander to sue MS for Windows Explorer, maybe soon we will see MS forced to only release the Kernel."

While this may appear to be the logical conclusion at first, it misses one crucial point: Explorer (A File Viewer, or Shell) is arguably an essential part of the OS, whereas the Browser is not. MS argued exactly along this line, that the Browser is an essential part of an OS, however the argument was found to be unconvincing.

The same issue applies to Media Players. The OS is supposed to be a platform that sits between the hardware and the applications. Instead the trend has been to bring more and more Application level stuff into a tight OS+ Default Apps "Package" rather than providing a barebones OS. (This applies to Apple and Linux as well, although since Linux is free and open source, I don't think monopoly regulations can ever apply, even if it had %99 market share - it would just mean the OS has lost commodity value).
 
I hate getting into these type of arguments but:

First the EU is completely off base. Microsoft is a manufacture of software. It doesn't matter that they also created an operating system (which runs software). What the EU is making MS do is like asking an engine manufacture that only makes V8 engines to remove four of the cylinders in the engine so it could give consumers choices to run all eight cylinders but start off with four.

It is ultimately up to the computer manufactures to install software the their customers want. Again wih the car example, you can purchase off the shelf auto or you can have one custom made for you. In this same case the off the shelf model will cost you less money. But if you must have a custom design prepare to spend more money.

In the end it all boils down to what the consumer wants. I think all PC manufactures should have a folder with the installer file of all the possible software tools consumers would use. Most computers today come with at least 500GB HDDS anyway so space is not an issue. Or Burn a DVD with the latest top 100 sofwares...
 
the funny thing is that you guys are analyzing the issue from the wrong point of view.
this eu move is not intended for users that are well acquainted within the windows system.
take for example, a person that have no idea on computers. he starts his system for the first time, current setup installs ie, thus he doesn't know of other options, so the competitors are loosing in advance. they don't get the chance.
now in the latest setup, while activating the copy, a screen shows up and tells the user that he needs to install a browser inorder to surf the net and shows him the list to choose from. that gives fair chance to all browsers.
if he choose ie, then by all means, enjoy your choice. not what was forced on you.
about the network drivers, I thought vista and w7 ids all hardware in advance.
how would anyone feel if he was forced to buy a specific car and not given the choice?
I would like to see the same restriction forced on apple. btw, kde based linux distributions comes with at least 2 different browsers, firefox and konqueror. in regards to gnome based distributions, there should be another browser. ubuntu should have another one installed,
 
The people who brought up the monopolization issue have forgotten one thing. Microsoft has not forced you to use IE for a LONG time. Just because a program comes pre-installed does not mean you can't simply remove it, which is an easy process on a windows 7/vista/xp PC.

The car analogies are even worse because they are referring to something that is integrated into the dash of the car, and therefore is not able to be replaced with a different option. The real car GPS comparison would have been that a car comes with a free GPS unit sitting in the cup holder or chillin in the glove box, utterly unattached to the car, and if you dont like it, you toss it out the window and put your own GPS unit in your glove box/cup holder/dash holder/sticky cup thing on the windshield/etc.

The other thing these people who bring up the monopoly card don't realize is we're talking about a product THAT IS NOT CHARGED FOR, thus the monopoly related laws have no bearing on it, whatsoever. Now, if the situation was like back in the day where MS was pressuring companies to only sell windows on all the PC's they built and sold, that would be an issue where the EU would be well within its rights to regulate.

What is happening here is standard issue EU socialist BS.
 
[citation][nom]kutark[/nom]The people who brought up the monopolization issue have forgotten one thing. Microsoft has not forced you to use IE for a LONG time. Just because a program comes pre-installed does not mean you can't simply remove it, which is an easy process on a windows 7/vista/xp PC........
[/citation]
You can not remove the IE on XP. That is exactly the problem here. Removing the shortcut icon from your desktop is not equal of removal/uninstall of the IE.
I am getting tired by this. Here some facts:
1. This is not only about browsers. It is only one of the problems that EU is looking into. It includes office products and support of the other standards that MS has committed, but currently sabotage. That includes their own OOXML standard. Believe it or not the latest Office 2007 is not compliant with ISO/IEC 29500:2008.

2. So far EU has not forced MS to do anything. All media noise is crated by MS them self. The TH is reporting the issue very unprofessionally so far by suggesting that it is EC rulings about removal and now about ballot screen of the browser.

If anyone really is interested in true about it can read him/her self here:
Microsoft Proposal to European Commission

Warning! It is long and very legal text.
 
[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom]can you please stop bull shitting , i have removed IE from windows xp myself beofore to try other browsers in the past , the os works just fine with out IE. go on call me liar doesn't cahjnge the fact that i ahve removed IE from win xp before , and doesn't cahnge the fact i'l tell you the same thing i told the other guy , when you do call me a liar.[/citation]
Please, can you provide step by step instruction how did you remove the IE from XP?
 
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