News Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025

[JeffreyP55]

MS was requesting/pushing for that TPM thing for years. Long before Win 11.
The manufacturers pushed back with "Yeah, we don't wanna do that".

Right.
That was the 'official list'.

But just about anything that ran WIn 7, could install and run 10.
With zero workarounds like you have to do with unsupported hardware and Win 11.

First it was version 1. A bit more relaxed. Long as we want win11 we are stuck with it. BAH!

 

[JeffreyP55]

First it was version 1. A bit more relaxed. Long as we want win11 we are stuck with it. BAH!

I believe we both still have 4790k CPU's. Mine has a 1080ti. Still a very capable combo we have to toss?

 

[USAFRet]

I believe we both still have 4790k CPU's. Mine has a 1080ti. Still a very capable combo we have to toss?

I still have a 4790k system. Sitting on the floor across the room from me.
(BigBrother, in my sig line)

About to repurpose it into a local node for FlightRadar24.
Will be running Linux, of course...😉



But that does not lessen my Windows use on all the other systems.
It simply takes a system off the currently unused shelf, and puts it back in circulation.

 

[JeffreyP55]

I still have a 4790k system. Sitting on the floor across the room from me.
(BigBrother, in my sig line)

About to repurpose it into a local node for FlightRadar24.
Will be running Linux, of course...😉



But that does not lessen my Windows use on all the other systems.
It simply takes a system off the currently unused shelf, and puts it back in circulation.

Sure.. I use mine almost exclusively for A/V and streaming garbage in the bedroom upstairs..

 

[coromonadalix]

i was able to use win 11 on old phenom chip loll thks to rufus help ...

until they find a way to block the bypasses and really really enforce the tpm and hardware detection(s)

they will surely try harder on win12

 

[USAFRet]

i was able to use win 11 on old phenom chip loll thks to rufus help ...

until they find a way to block the bypasses and really really enforce the tpm and hardware detection(s)

they will surely try harder on win12

And what do you use this old phenom system for, no matter the OS?

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

Microsoft's restrictions on upgrading to Windows 11 effectively incentivise any entity charged with reducing eWaste to consider promoting the uptake of Linux on older systems.

Likewise, organisations charged with helping users avoid falling victim to cybercrime also need to consider this - users who are unwilling or unable to purchase new hardware don´t have many other options that are likely to keep their systems safe from malware.

 

[ekio]

NOBODY switches to Linux because security updates on Windows stopped… (pro Linux person here)
What will happen is that people will either keep their computer regardless or they will get a new one.
Just like when Microsoft released Vista, making XP pcs obsolete because they were not
beefy enough to just run the new empty OS, these kinds of moves are a cynical deals with hardware companies (and gov agencies).

 

[Colif]

With too many outdated PCs afloat, Windows 10 EOL in late 2025 could generate massive amount of e-waste.

Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025 : Read more

or they can pay to extend support. They did offer that suggestion, which is cheaper? New PC or extended support?

I love the "Sky is falling" headlines but Windows just doesn't stop working if it doesn't get updates, the millions of computers still on 7 today are proof of that, just use another Anti virus. Thats about only thing you won't get, as Microsoft WILL release an update for any feature that effects too many.

I have a win 10 VM, I won't mind if I can load it and not have windows update take control for an hour updating programs I don't use on it. I only run one program that takes 10 minutes, but loading vm is always... when can I actually use it. So no updates will be great... but then I use Win 11.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

or they can pay to extend support. ..

I love the "Sky is falling" headlines but Windows just doesn't stop working if it doesn't get updates ...

True, but not everyone has foresight to see the need for extended support.

Security vulnerabilities in 2023 can be a lot more costly than in the past - it's a regular event around here for the technologically less savvy (and less often even the savvy) to have bank accounts drained. Whilst there's usually social engineering involved, installing malware is going to be easier when vulnerabilities aren't patched (and Microsoft is no longer on the hook to provide the updates).

 

[little_me]

I for one will most likely move to linux on windows 10 EOL.
reasons:
I tried Edge once, it decided to use one of the outlook emails to create online profile, sync bookmarks from IE/Edge/firefox/chrome to cloud and all without ANY question from me.
That to me was SERIOUS breach of privacy.
ask, sure... require, maybe.. do without asking? no way.

that was only browser though, I can live without Edge.

then came the Office 365 change where you MUST be logged in to use it (except in read only mode)
that was a nope to me. off with office and using alternatives now.

then came the last straw of outlook mobile app requiring two factor authentication. Not a bad thing in itself but like the earlier "you can only use outlook app to connect to server by default" change, it left no other choice but to accept it or.. drop it.
I dropped it, I do not like "you don't have a choice" vs "you don't have a choice" options.

Upon studying matter and all signs pointing towards MS pushing same thing to windows too. It is not there yet but I wouldn't be surprised if win11+1 would make that mandatory.
They sure have tried with Microsoft account sign ins

in short... all signs point towards Linux in the future but for now, win10 works still for me.
Win11? no, that wont work, there is a thin line between 10 and 11 I'm not willing to cross.

 

[ThomasKinsley]

NOBODY switches to Linux because security updates on Windows stopped… (pro Linux person here)
What will happen is that people will either keep their computer regardless or they will get a new one.
Just like when Microsoft released Vista, making XP pcs obsolete because they were not
beefy enough to just run the new empty OS, these kinds of moves are a cynical deals with hardware companies (and gov agencies).

I remember building in 2007. I went out of my way to purchase an OEM XP license rather than use Vista. RAM was expensive and 2GB of DDR2 800Mhz was what I had to work with. IIRC, Vista would take about half of that, so it was obvious at the time that XP was the only reasonable choice.

 

[abufrejoval]

My biggest concern is that Microsoft is trying to turn the personal computer into a fruity cult walled garden.

The personal computer started as a very open system, fully documented with BIOS source code listings and PCB schematics. And the wild success of the PC industry depended on that open architecture for decades.

When Apple turned a media player with a DRM based business model into a more-purposes device, they used that opportunity to keep the key to the chastity belt firmly in their hands and made billions after billions from extortion.

Google and Microsoft just want the same levels of profitability and they are transforming the open systems which they helped to grow into walled gardens with gSlaves and mSlaves in addition to iSlaves.

That's why they insist on TPM and slowly start exercising their sovereign rights as the fencers of the PC-commons.

The real battle will start with Windows 12 and 13 when Copilot rules the computer where your sovereignty is limited to paying the usage subscription after you bought the hardware.

 

[Tac 25]

will just keep using Windows 10. I practice safe internet habits.

Microsoft would have to bribe Hoyoverse to make Star Rail and Genshin for Windows 11 only, for me to use W11. lol

 

[hannibal]

"People" have been saying that for every new Windows release since forever.

Win 11
Win 10
8, 7 (not so much), Vista, XP, etc, etc, etc....

Whole lotta woofin' and tweetin'...not much actual Linux movement.

Yeah…. I remember that also…
So not expecting big Linux jump even now. Most will just continent to use win10 until the computer did or something horrible happens because of security holes.

 

[epobirs]

FYI, the stock Win11 installation image doesn't check that your CPU is on the supported list. Or at least it didn't a while back when I tried with with my Skylake build a year-ish ago.

Win10 was actually more restrictive in terms of how recent your CPU had to be to be officially supported. But maybe they were more lax about offering the in-Windows update to people running Win7/8 even if your CPU was technically too old, I don't know.

This is simply untrue. I've installed Win10 with no hassles from Microsoft on machines as old as Core2Duo with 4GB RAM. There was a critical protocol that Win7 doesn't support and the supposed patch to add it just doesn't work. Thus the need to move to Windows 10 with its out of box support for this business that wasn't going to buy newer refurb PCs until absolutely necessary.

And I was running Windows 11 on a Insider testbed system when an update announced that my third gen i-7 CPU was too old and therefore icky. Every attempt to run a Win11 install on any of my pre-cutoff systems has produced a failure that noted the issue, including seventh gen systems with supported TPM.

 

[epobirs]

No, I meant CPUs that were officially listed by Microsoft as being supported, as listed here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements#windows-client-edition-processors

Obviously there are many CPUs not on that list that will run Win10 just fine, just as there are for Win11 (especially if you bypass the TPM requirement).

Edit: And I mean more restrictive in terms of how recent of processor was required relative to the release date of the OS.

There is a critical difference between recommended specs and required specs. What Microsoft did with Windows 11 was unprecedented.

 

[Geef]

>no it won't. People aren't going to throw away their PC/laptop just because Windows 10 isn't updating any more.

There is a HUGE population of the internet (just a guess but I'd say around 90%) that doesn't care unless it can't access their favorite web sites and watch YT videos. They'd probably still be using Windows 3.1 if it could do those easily.

 

[Darkoverlordofdata]

And how many continued using Win7 for years after it hit EOL? It didn't stop them then. If you feel so strongly about it, switch to linux.

 

[Deleted member 2962262]

>no it won't. People aren't going to throw away their PC/laptop just because Windows 10 isn't updating any more.

There is a HUGE population of the internet (just a guess but I'd say around 90%) that doesn't care unless it can't access their favorite web sites and watch YT videos. They'd probably still be using Windows 3.1 if it could do those easily.

There are also lots of people who think DUI is safe.

As cybercriminals get better at their job, more Windows users will learn a little malware can be very expensive.
Edit: relevance - willingness to use out of date operating systems is influenced by awareness of risk, which is likely to improve as cybercriminals get more successful.
"Federal Trade Commission (FTC) data shows that consumers reported losing nearly $8.8 billion to fraud in 2022, an increase of more than 30 percent over the previous year. Much of this fraud came from fake investing scams and imposter scams. Perhaps most alarming in this report was that there were over 1.1 million reports of identity theft received through the FTC’s IdentityTheft.gov website." (Forbes)

 

[TJ Hooker]

This is simply untrue. I've installed Win10 with no hassles from Microsoft on machines as old as Core2Duo with 4GB RAM. There was a critical protocol that Win7 doesn't support and the supposed patch to add it just doesn't work. Thus the need to move to Windows 10 with its out of box support for this business that wasn't going to buy newer refurb PCs until absolutely necessary.

And I was running Windows 11 on a Insider testbed system when an update announced that my third gen i-7 CPU was too old and therefore icky. Every attempt to run a Win11 install on any of my pre-cutoff systems has produced a failure that noted the issue, including seventh gen systems with supported TPM.

Err, so exactly which part of what I said is untrue? What I said was, some time ago I was able to install Win11, using the stock install image from MS, on my 6th gen Skylake system without issue. Apparently that is no longer the case, which is unfortunate.
Can I ask when you tried to instal win11 on your 7th gen system (which I understood to be an attempted clean install via a MS windows install image, vs the Windows updater from an older OS)?

 

[Darkbreeze]

This is going to send FAR fewer PCs to the landfill than them going EOL and yanking the free upgrades from Windows 7 and 8/8.1 to 10 is doing. Except for when you pile on the fact that a lot of the PCs that they GAVE free upgrades to 10 to that had valid 7 and 8/8.1 licenses have now had them revoked and they are not making any effort to resolve that problem. So basically EVERY single Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machine, and a whole bunch of Windows 10 machines that were originally Windows 7 or 8, are also going to the landfill because Microsoft has made them worthless. They were still worth something to a lot of users because they COULD still be used for many years to come, just not necessarily as gaming systems but there are far more users out there who do not game than users who do, but now they can't be because the activation servers for 7 and 8 are gone and they can no longer be used with Windows 10, so worthless now. And then add the list of Windows 10 machines to it when the time comes.

It's ridiculous. Laws should be passed saying either you support these systems for a minimum of ten years, at least, and/or you do like with automobiles and tell them if they don't want to continue supporting those OSes after a certain point then at that point they open it up to the open source communities to offer continued support or the aftermarket, just like they do with automotive parts. Something. It's getting ridiculous for all these companies to sell you expensive hardware or devices, with the idea that you are going to have the use of that device for many years to come, and then a couple of years later decide "meh, we don't want to support it anymore so we're shutting it down" which ends up making the device completely worthless and forcing you to have to purchase some other newer one that they will do the same thing to in two years.

 

[Bamda]

I am turning my old PC into a Steam OS gaming box when Proton.

 

[RunningUtes]

The systems we're talking about here are still perfectly capable, many are still more powerful than low-end modern computers whether those powered by AMD or Intel.

Could this be an opening that benefits Linux? Not for corporate users of course but for home users looking for cheap computers since all they'd need is a better GPU for the entry-to-mid-level gaming most people are interested in.

I would certainly love it to be the case. Microsoft creating the seeds of it's own demise.

I agree. But where are the best places to get these older perfectly capable systems? I have an old laptop that I installed MX Linux on and it works great. Pop_OS, Mint, or Ubuntu are all great options that would likely work for most people rather then disposing of a used computer.

 

[USAFRet]

I agree. But where are the best places to get these older perfectly capable systems? I have an old laptop that I installed MX Linux on and it works great. Pop_OS, Mint, or Ubuntu are all great options that would likely work for most people rather then disposing of a used computer.

You seem to be asking where to buy an old out of date system, to replace an old out of date system,

If I'm off course, please correct my thoughts.