More to Thouroughbred than just a die shrink ?!

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Heres my take on the non barton soi, believe it or not it is probably cheaper for amd to make barton with 512k cache on bulk silicon, than to make it with 256k on soi silicon, soi silicon is more expensive than bulk(I have heard 3x as expensive, but my fab didnt use soi so IM not sure).

Thus while they both probably give near equal performance, a 512k cache bulk barton costs amd less money to produce.

Thats my take, comments?
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Okay, everyone mark their callendars. For once, I am in agreement with Matisaro! Eeek! I hadn't realized that SOI might be as high as three times the cost of silly-cone. Yuck.

If that be true, I have to ask then: What the heck is the point of moving <i>any</i> chip to SOI? Does the end really justify <i>that</i> means?

Heh heh, and I also have to wonder then why Intel isn't the one pushing SOI onto Prescott... He he he.

😛 @ Intel

(Yes folks, I am indeed on cold meds, and the world really is spinning.)

<font color=red>Bob knew he was screwed when he saw the label actually read 'Tactile Nuclear Device'.</font color=red>
 
Could someone give me a link or possibly an explanation about SOI. Like what does it do, how is it changed from silicon and what are the advantages/disadvantages. I'm guessing price is a disadvantage.
 
Well from what word comes around here, SOI helps a lot in reducing temps. I am guessing with this, and IHS, and the extended pipeline of Hammer, as well as 0.13m, the chip would run much less hot than its counterparts, therefore allowing higher speed ramps be easier.

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol:
 
Here you go, all you need to know about SOI:

<A HREF="http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/bluelogic/showcase/soi/soipaper.pdf" target="_new">IBM WHITEPAPER ON SOI (PDF)</A>

<A HREF="http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/soi/" target="_new">http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/soi/</A>

<font color=purple>Ladies and Gentlemen, its...Hammer Time !</font color=purple>
 
Did you see the link I posted about the IHS and temps? I didn't notice you comment, you might've missed it (or I might've missed the reply).

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 
You know how your sig reads: "'Tactile Nuclear Device'" is that actually supposed to be "Tactical"? Just wondering. Know that this is kinda off topic. Sorry guys, just had to ask though.
 
Okay, everyone mark their callendars. For once, I am in agreement with Matisaro! Eeek! I hadn't realized that SOI might be as high as three times the cost of silly-cone. Yuck.
Click to expand...

Just remember thats the cost of the wafer, not the cost to manufacture, and depending on how long your process line is, the cost of the wafer could be as low as 5% of the final cost of production, so 3x for soi is no big deal.


However my point was that for the additional performance, the extra cash amd had to spend for soi wafers would be more than the lost cash from a larger die size from 512k cache.

Soi is very good and it allows much faster chips (15% higher clockability at 2.2-2.6ghz is a big deal) and it is worth the cost, however in the barton chip I see a reason amd did not upgrade to soi.


(all this is theory and conjecture btw).

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
 
OT -> i think labdog's sig. has got something to do with the "______________" meaning "nothing".. hmm.. weird!!!

OnTopic -> AFAIK SOI is simply a means of increasing gate speeds by decreasing gate transition latencies. It's all about how much current, for how long, you have to pump into a transistor to make it switch. With SOI you can switch it faster because it's "reaction" time is faster.

um... well, yeah... live with that explanation for those of you who hate reading White Papers. It's kinda bare and possibly only a half-story but I'm ((8^3 - 2*101) * 0.90 ) % sure.

Balzi

I spilled coffee all over my wife's nighty... ...serves me right for wearing it?!?
 
Wherever we were last talking about Hammer having an IHS 😱

Let me find it again...<A HREF="http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387127&highlight=took+off+heat+spreader" target="_new">here it is</A>. Not a big change in temps, but interesting that they went down without the IHS.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 
Oh yes! Sorry I was a bit mixed wondering what article you meant. Yeah I seen it. Well again there could be different variations for Hammer. New metal used maybe? Better space between die and IHS? Or simply that Hammer IS HOT, and the IHS will help more. Then again I think of days with Willamettes... :wink:

--
Thunderbirds in wintertime, Northwoods in summertime! :lol:
 
-If that be true, I have to ask then: What the heck is the point of moving any chip to SOI? Does the end really justify that means?

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1469&p=13

from what I can gather (not just anandtech mind you), SOI is a simple (yet expensive) alteration of the transistors of the CPU. The most apparent advantage includes heat reduction, although it costs a lot more money to add a microscopic strip of oxide between the CPU silicon wafer and the silicon strip on the "top" of the transistor. This reduces the electrical charge, allowing for a faster transfer of electrons between the CPU and the silicon. The higher efficieny of the transistors would reduce the CPUs latency, thus better performance.

Is it worth it? We can't really say until one comes out (for public use) and benchmarks appear.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
 
I think the PowerPC G4 has SOI (or is it going to be the G5)
Doesn't the Power4 have it too? (IBM chips?)

Mmmm... <font color=red>Red Hot</font color=red>
 
what metirial is it made of?
or just other structure then other metirial?

<font color=green>
*******
*K.I.S.S*
*(k)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid*
*******
</font color=green>
 
Actually, now that I think about it, yes IBM has some chips using SOI. I guess then apple would get support eventually...Motorola and IBM pretty tight in the market. I don'tthink the PowerPC G4 has support for SOI yet, maybe the G5, I could be wrong though, I don't own a macintosh myself. :)

"When there's a will, there's a way."
 
It's a semi-conductor...not silicon, but something that partially conducts electricity. Anyone remember anything about Chemistry or AP Chem?

"When there's a will, there's a way."
 
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