Question Motherboard For Ryzen 3xxx

[DefinitelyNotTom]

ok, I am no way going to get a motherboard with a whining fan, so the x570 is out.

I thought well no problem I'll just use an x470 or b450 (I have a b450 bought and can still return it).

Well.... if I am reading correctly, to use a b450 or x470 for ryzen 3xxx, you must ALREADY HAVE a previous ryzen cpu set up with it in order to update the BIOS???

I am strongly considering backing out of selling my 2700x and just going ahead and building and forgetting that I am missing out on 3xxx.

I am already so tired of waiting for them to release the new cpus and it now confirmed none will be out before July... I sure don't want to wait even LONGER for b450 and x470 mobos on the market to have the latest firmware. Even the 2700x was already going to be overkill for my usage. Maybe I should cancel the sale and pretend 3700x won't exist?

Note: If I do build with 3700x, I'd almost surely be out close to $200 extra, as well. So deal with the hassle and pay $200 just to know I got the better hardware or keep what I have, save the money, still have more than I need.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

If 8 core results didn't thrill you then the six core 3600 should... it pretty well trounced the i7-9700k and even gave the 8 core/16 thread i9-9900k a good run. And keep in mind this is the low-end, 6-core/12 thread cheap-o processor embarrasing Intel's best at a fraction of the installed cost.

But if your useage demands execution threads, nothing beats cores: so naturally 12 cores will do it better.

And again, some leaked geek bench numbers so we don't know all the testing conditions of course. You can make up any number of possible test conditions (like memory speed/overclocked??) to no avail. I'll just wait for independent reviews to come out in a few days time, now.

yes, but even if someone needs the extra threads, it's very rare for hat to be ALL they need. So sacrificing single core, such as web browsing performance, isn't good, still. And like I said, it can't be the same TDP and not be slower somewhere. So either they're misleading on the clocks, misleading on the boost, or misleading on the TDP.

 

[drea.drechsler]

yes, but even if someone needs the extra threads, it's very rare for hat to be ALL they need. So sacrificing single core, such as web browsing performance, isn't good, still. And like I said, it can't be the same TDP and not be slower somewhere. So either they're misleading on the clocks, misleading on the boost, or misleading on the TDP.

We'll know in just a few more days when the embargos lift on independent reviews.

One got posted a bit early though:

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/another-amd-ryzen-5-3600-reviewbenchmarks-leaks.html

What's really neat for me is they did it both for X470 and an X570 board with next to no difference in performance. Since we already knew there's next to no difference in performance between an X470 and B450, I think I'm gold with my Mortar.

Oh...and it's beating Intel's 'best' in single thread performance! No wonder Intel's worried.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7icS1QmVsY&t=1469s

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

We'll know in just a few more days when the embargos lift on independent reviews.

One got posted a bit early though:

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/another-amd-ryzen-5-3600-reviewbenchmarks-leaks.html

What's really neat for me is they did it both for X470 and an X570 board with next to no difference in performance. Since we already knew there's next to no difference in performance between an X470 and B450, I think I'm gold with my Mortar.

Oh...and it's beating Intel's 'best' in single thread performance! No wonder Intel's worried.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7icS1QmVsY&t=1469s

AMD and others had already said there'd be no performance difference between b450/x470/x570. That was some claim people should have assumed to be true because it does those companies no good for people to buy the cheaper tech.

Also that embargo is probably already lifted in some countries. Unless it was a specific global time that it's lifted, but either way it's July 1st (the date it's lifted and preorders go up) even on the US East coast in a few hours.

What sucks is I could probably get a good discount if I wait, but I don't buy that there will be plenty of stock, so may have to preorder.

 

[drea.drechsler]

AMD and others had already said there'd be no performance difference between b450/x470/x570. ....

AMD said it... but now we're seeing the numbers in some testing!

More tests... many reviews still to come. I'm not pre-ordering, gonna wait to get my 3600. Only yet to decide if it's to be the base or 'X' part. I'm very interested to know it it PBO overclocks like the 2600X and 2700X do (compared to the base, non-X parts) as that's my preference to all-core overclocking for day-to-day use.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

AMD said it... but now we're seeing the numbers in some testing!

More tests... many reviews still to come. I'm not pre-ordering, gonna wait to get my 3600. Only yet to decide if it's to be the base or 'X' part. I'm very interested to know it it PBO overclocks like the 2600X and 2700X do (compared to the base, non-X parts) as that's my preference to all-core overclocking for day-to-day use.

I about have to get an X because I don't want to OC.

I just wish we ahd a statement from AMD telling us flat out there will be plenty of stock. For intel to have put out so few 8th gen chips at release and price gouging like crazy going on, it worries me still here as well. Since amd decided to be like intel and charge more, they may have also decided to copy intel's low supply trick.

Otherwise I'd wait a week or two. I wonder if I should just go ahead and buy the b450, too, though, in case they stop being available. I'm almost sure I don't want an x570 as a YT video showed how loud the fan gets and the poster of the vid said it spins when idle, as well.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Apparently someone from AMD said there won't be preorders... So I guess we have tow ait another 6 days to buy one.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Apparently someone from AMD said there won't be preorders... So I guess we have tow ait another 6 days to buy one.

I'm literally not going to worry about shortages developing, at least not early on. Comparing to Intel's shortage problem just doesn't work here because Intel has the OEM market (the Dell's, HP's, Lenovo's, etc.) pipeline to keep filled which AMD doesn't have. It's an entirely different situation and Intel will keep them happy even if it means starving the DIY market of processors. Which they willing do, both keeping price up and adding to it's cachet.

I believe most of the early adopters will be AMD followers, or 'fan boys' if you will, as usual. It will take a few weeks or months before the independent reviews and actual experience of average users begin to tell the story. That's when the Intel die-hards start to abandon ship and the buying frenzy kicks in (assuming performance lives up to expectations built by leaks and hype). This will give me time to get my order in and shipped.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I'm literally not going to worry about shortages developing, at least not early on. Comparing to Intel's shortage problem just doesn't work here because Intel has the OEM market (the Dell's, HP's, Lenovo's, etc.) pipeline to keep filled which AMD doesn't have. It's an entirely different situation and Intel will keep them happy even if it means starving the DIY market of processors. Which they willing do, both keeping price up and adding to it's cachet.

I believe most of the early adopters will be AMD followers, or 'fan boys' if you will, as usual. It will take a few weeks or months before the independent reviews and actual experience of average users begin to tell the story. That's when the Intel die-hards start to abandon ship and the buying frenzy kicks in (assuming performance lives up to expectations built by leaks and hype). This will give me time to get my order in and shipped.

that may be "most" early adaptors, but as I said my pc is about to falla apart, so I ave no choice. I shouldn't have even waited this long, but did where I'd get the enw tech.

There are many others worried it will sell out quiockly, as well, so it's not just me worried that it would have to be a quick buy or wait a month or two, which I flat can't do.

Now if only I could figure out how to know if a b450 is already ready for it when purchasing... I'd get that asus back. Otherwise forced to get the msi.

I don't even see why people say they should wait. You know good and well it will be better than 2xxx, which already competed with intel's chips. I can see people who aren't sure about doing ANY upgrade waiting. But some of us, who know we have to upgrade to something, know it's going to be better than 2xxx so only point waiting would be if we aren't sure which of the 3xxx chips to get. Leaks would be about irrelevant as far as whether to get a 3xxx ata ll.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Told you things would get hectic... That mobo I wanted is going OOS most places now. I better vbery quickly decide whether to get it or not. Should I just get it and forget x570 since I am not wanting the stupid fan?

Would prefer the asus b450-i again if I could know if it's updated.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Told you things would get hectic... That mobo I wanted is going OOS most places now. I better vbery quickly decide whether to get it or not. Should I just get it and forget x570 since I am not wanting the stupid fan?

Would prefer the asus b450-i again if I could know if it's updated.

What motherboards are you considering? aside from the B450-i.

Getting any 400 or 300 series board that doesn't have flash-back is a pain if you want latest model CPU support out of the box since no on-line retailers seem to offer assurances it comes pre-loaded with supporting BIOS. None I know of at least. So if you're not prepared to deal with it (access to an early model CPU, for instance), maybe an x570 is best.

I personally believe fan worries are way overblown. And so do most of the impartial on-line reviewers, many of whom have doubtless been 'hands on' with an operating Zen2 rig. They just can't say anything until the embargo is lifted.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

What motherboards are you considering? aside from the B450-i.

Getting any 400 or 300 series board that doesn't have flash-back is a pain if you want latest model CPU support out of the box since no on-line retailers seem to offer assurances it comes pre-loaded with supporting BIOS. None I know of at least. So if you're not prepared to deal with it (access to an early model CPU, for instance), maybe an x570 is best. I personally believe fan worries are way overblown.

b450 pro carbon, which has flashback.

I also asked one store if they ahve a way to look and see if their b450-i ones have a sticker saying ryzen 3 compatible.... so we'll see if they answer.

 

[drea.drechsler]

b450 pro carbon, which has flashback.

I also asked one store if they ahve a way to look and see if their b450-i ones have a sticker saying ryzen 3 compatible.... so we'll see if they answer.

oh yeah...b450 pro carbon is one of the really good B450 boards MSI puts out. could be the same case as their b450m mortar which went out of stock in the US quite some time ago.

I suspect it's because they got caught up with tariffs as MSI built their boards in China. They're readily available in various overseas markets... Australia and UK in particular...but you have to pay high shipping and import fees to get one delivered into the US. So a $105 US board turns into $150 or $160.

Another option is wait it out and get a B550 board when they come out later this year. If it turns out it'll offer only PCIe gen 3 from the chipset (Gen 4 from CPU for GPU, NVME and FSB to the chipset) then it should be able to skip the fan altogether. One hopes, at least.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

oh yeah...b450 pro carbon is one of the really good B450 boards MSI puts out. could be the same case as their b450m mortar which went out of stock in the US quite some time ago.

I suspect it's because they got caught up with tariffs as MSI built their boards in China. They're readily available in various overseas markets... Australia and UK in particular...but you have to pay high shipping and import fees to get one delivered into the US. So a $105 US board turns into $150 or $160.

Another option is wait it out and get a B550 board when they come out later this year. If it turns out it'll offer only PCIe gen 3 from the chipset (Gen 4 from CPU for GPU, NVME and FSB to the chipset) then it should be able to skip the fan altogether. One hopes, at least.

eh well that's not good news that it as built in China to begin with. But I assumed most mobos probably are.

I'd have to pay $150 after all fees. SOme may say hey just pay a little more and get an x570, but I hate to do that because 1. it looks like some of them ar elisted as low tier, lower than b450 would be, and 2. that stupid fan.

 

[drea.drechsler]

eh well that's not good news that it as built in China to begin with. But I assumed most mobos probably are.
.....

Indeed, I do believe many if not most are built in China. Maybe it could be MSI never located a lot of inventory in the US before imposition of the tarriffs. I recall interviews with MSI's CEO at Computex (or whatever) where he indicated they're moving manufacture back to Taiwan. But I kind of doubt they'll start up a line for one-generation-old products.... even if still relevant, sadly.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Indeed, I do believe many if not most are built in China. Maybe it could be MSI never located a lot of inventory in the US before imposition of the tarriffs. I recall interviews with MSI's CEO at Computex (or whatever) where he indicated they're moving manufacture back to Taiwan. But I kind of doubt they'll start up a line for one-generation-old products.... even if still relevant, sadly.

well I ordered the msi from amazon, even though it won't ship for weeks... because I decided it would be best to do that and be able to still cancel if I change my mind before then, rather than buy from b&h or microcenter, who have worse return policies, but would have gotten it sooner, especially from b&h.

But it feels VERY weird ordering hat mobo, since the whole ;point was flashback, but it won't even need it because surely their new stock will already be updated. They're not going to get brand enw stock weeks from now and then it still need updating, surely...

By that time I probably could just assume all mobos would be updated and maybe should just get a different one.

or if I knew flat out I could get a x570 where the fan stays off all the time, I might as well do that.

 

[drea.drechsler]

well I ordered the msi from amazon, even though it won't ship for weeks... because I decided it would be best to do that and be able to still cancel if I change my mind before then, rather than buy from b&h or microcenter, who have worse return policies, but would have gotten it sooner, especially from b&h.

But it feels VERY weird ordering hat mobo, since the whole ;point was flashback, but it won't even need it because surely their new stock will already be updated. They're not going to get brand enw stock weeks from now and then it still need updating, surely...

By that time I probably could just assume all mobos would be updated and maybe should just get a different one.

or if I knew flat out I could get a x570 where the fan stays off all the time, I might as well do that.

It's curious because that board seems to be available at a number of vendors... from Newegg with free shipping, even. Did you intentionally pick a vendor that has no current stock? Perhaps expecting it to be a board with Ryzen 3000 BIOS included?

If so, I think that's a risky strategy. I think you should plan on using the flash-back function, personally.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

It's curious because that board seems to be available at a number of vendors... from Newegg with free shipping, even. Did you intentionally pick a vendor that has no current stock? Perhaps expecting it to be a board with Ryzen 3000 BIOS included?

If so, I think that's a risky strategy. I think you should plan on using the flash-back function, personally.

The price is $20 higher at newegg and they wouldn't price match. Also I have returned 2 mobos there recently, so hatetd to push my luck in case I need to return it. If I have to use flashback, I will. Just saying I bet it will not need it, which defeats the purpose of me even getting that model. I really "wanetd" the asus b450-i because my secondary ssd would run at full 3.0x4 on it and I could do an itx or matx case build.

Notice now the msi sold out at amazon AND microcenter, btw.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Also, the fact that they're selling out is a sign of why to buy the cpus right off. I will buy day 1 and can always return it if I need to. Notice now amazon is out of the tomahawk, too, along with the pro carbon.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Also, the fact that they're selling out is a sign of why to buy the cpus right off. I will buy day 1 and can always return it if I need to. Notice now amazon is out of the tomahawk, too, along with the pro carbon.

Plenty available if you're willing to pay full price:

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Performance-Motherboard-B450-PRO/dp/B07F85YKLJ

Tomahawk's available for $10 off right now:

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Crossfire-Motherboard-B450-Tomahawk/dp/B07F7W5KJS

and, as well, Newegg has stock on both. My Microcenter's never carried much MSI so I'm not surprised there though. I had to order my Mortars from Walmart and Newegg. (Gotta love Walmart's return policy... just take it back to nearest store for instant refund).

B450 Pro Carbon AC is a great board, well worth it even at full price and doubtless will (or should) be one of the most popular for value concious Ryzen 3000 applications looking for top-notch features (like WiFi). Getting it at a good price, $20 off, should make the wait easier.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Plenty available if you're willing to pay full price:

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Performance-Motherboard-B450-PRO/dp/B07F85YKLJ

Tomahawk's available for $10 off right now:

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Crossfire-Motherboard-B450-Tomahawk/dp/B07F7W5KJS

and, as well, Newegg has stock on both. My Microcenter's never carried much MSI so I'm not surprised there though. I had to order my Mortars from Walmart and Newegg. (Gotta love Walmart's return policy... just take it back to nearest store for instant refund).

B450 Pro Carbon AC is a great board, well worth it even at full price and doubtless will (or should) be one of the most popular for value concious Ryzen 3000 applications looking for top-notch features (like WiFi). Getting it at a good price, $20 off, should make the wait easier.

The amazon ones are all third party sellers now, though.

Waiting a couple weeks doesn't matter because I don't know what monitor to get yet and haven't got a case for it.

I am happy with the choice to get that mobo EXCEPT like qI said it gimps my second ssd whereas the asus b450-i would have gimped the gpu instead and the x570 ones won't gimp any of it.

So I am still cosnideirng the x570, but don't you think the $200 x570 oenes will be lower quality than the msi, even though the msi is technically a budget line b450? Just as it was better than many mid-range x470 mobos.

Also, I'd RATHER have a matx or itc mobo. So there are compromises if I keep the msi.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Speaking of stores, do you think many different chains will have the cpus right off? I wonder if I could get one at Walmart, best buy, etc... Raise has 5% off gift cards and I have another $5 off $75 code. But,a s usual, the Newegg ones are nowhere to be found during the sale... I could get Walmart or best buy ones or office depot I guess, but I bet all of those will get supply later than newegga nd amazon.

 

[drea.drechsler]

The amazon ones are all third party sellers now, though.
...

I don't really notice (or care) if it's third-party so long as I get it Amazon Prime... with free shipping and returns. It's the free returns that makes a difference if I'm doubtful, as so far I've had to pay for all my non-defective Newegg returns.

 

[drea.drechsler]

T..... but don't you think the $200 x570 oenes will be lower quality than the msi, ....

I do not have any reason to believe any of the launch 570 boards will be anything but of the highest quality... at least in terms of construction (high layer counts using high dielectric quality materials) and VRM's. The only thing that makes them cheaper is lack of features (WiFi, LN2 overclocking, PostCode Displays, etc.)

This is based on the PCB breakdowns Buildzoid's been doing on some of Asus', MSI's and Gigabyte boards combined with the stated standards which indicate you have to have such high quality to meet AMD's requirements for PCIE gen4. But this is based on component analysis, reviews with testing will of course substantiate that. Or show otherwise!

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I do not have any reason to believe any of the launch 570 boards will be anything but of the highest quality... at least in terms of construction (high layer counts using high dielectric quality materials) and VRM's. The only thing that makes them cheaper is lack of features (WiFi, LN2 overclocking, PostCode Displays, etc.)

This is based on the PCB breakdowns Buildzoid's been doing on some of Asus', MSI's and Gigabyte boards combined with the stated standards which indicate you have to have such high quality to meet AMD's requirements for PCIE gen4. But this is based on component analysis, reviews with testing will of course substantiate that. Or show otherwise!

well it's tough deciding what to do.

As I figured, Amazon reviews its ship date to much sooner, so if I start my amazon prime 1 week trial (have done enough 1 month ones to where they will only offer a $1.99 1 week one now) before it ships, where I can change shipping speed, I'll have it in about a week. But I have tow ait until a week before prime day where I won't lose it before prime day, so I can't use that 1 week trial for another 5 or 6 days.

So I don't know. I could get an x570, hope the fan won't come on and use my asus wifi adaptor I bought or I could just use the b450 with built in wifi. So I'd say for a half way decent x570 I'd be out around $100 extra or something, though.

As far as you not caring about third party sellers, you're in the minority there. Someone on here was going on and on about how nobody would buy my pc parts if I sell them on ebay, even if they aren't opened. (they did, by the way... I got $400 for my 2700x and x470 just a few weeks ago... but of corurse that is before fees, but yes they bought them).

 

[drea.drechsler]

well it's tough deciding what to do.

....As far as you not caring about third party sellers, ...

Let me clarify what I mean by 'third party seller'. I'm referring to another retailer selling their product through the Amazon store front, as opposed to Amazon filling the order from one of their fulfillment centers. It would be new product in unopened packaging, and when sold with 'Amazon Prime' it gets all of Amazon's buyer protections in addition to free shipping and returns. In other words: if the product/vendor doesn't give satisfaction Amazon makes it good.

I do admit I'm a bit more leery of third-party sales through Newegg but then they usually also have higher prices than the Newegg product so I've never had to resort to them and those third parties are pretty big retailers themself (like B&H). The only way to get Walmart's 'instant refund' in their stores is to buy from their stock.

E-Bay sells a lot of sketch stuff, I'll admit, so it's a bit of a gamble. I think the old adage "if (the price) is too good to be true, it probably isn't" applies there very well! And especially so on CraigsList.