Question MSI B450M Mortar - Bricked, or is there still hope?

[invictus9407]

Hi folks,

This may be a long post so bear with me. I was out shopping the other day and had an impulse buy moment, so I purchased the Ryzen 5 5600x to upgrade from my Ryzen 5 3600. I had previously looked into this and knew this wasn't a massive upgrade, but I guess I was greedy and wanted to treat myself for new year since I had the budget. I will include my full specs further below.

When I got home, I proceeded to swap out my 3600 for the 5600x straight away. After swapping it out, the EZ Debug Light for the CPU came on, and that was the point when I realised I should have checked for my motherboard (MSI B450M Mortar) for compatibility and updated my BIOS and I felt like a complete idiot. After a bit of research, I found out on the MSI forums that the latest BIOS version of this board did indeed provide support for the 5600x, even though the BIOS was a beta version.

The B450M Mortar has a BIOS Flashback option, so I figured I can update the BIOS this way and everything would be fine. Initially, I tried this with all components installed, but I had issues updating the BIOS as I got three red flashes and nothing further, however after formatting and trying several USBs with MBR and FAT32 as recommended by a number of folks I eventually seemed to have the BIOS updated with flashing red lights for ~10 minutes, followed by the system restarting.

Despite this, the EZ Debug red light remained steady and indicated an issue with the CPU, and I could not get the system to POST whatsoever. So I tried several troubleshooting steps (which I will list below), however, I have nothing but a black screen and the EZ Debug light. What's even worse is that I have tried to pop back my 3600 which I had been using for 2+ years, and I encountered the same issue with that one. I was hoping I could post with the old CPU and try updating from within the BIOS, but nope. I highly doubt that I have damaged either of the CPUs, as I checked for bent/broken pins but everything looks good to me, and I was very careful in terms of preventing static discharge while working on the desktop.

At this stage, I am wondering if my motherboard is bricked and whether or not there is anything else I can try, or if I will need to get a new motherboard. The fact that neither CPU works as of now makes me think this is the case, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please let me know if anything isn't clear!

Specs

Mobo: MSI B450M Mortar
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 (as mentioned in the post, I got the Ryzen 5 5600x to upgrade to)
GPU: MSI RTX 2070 Super Ventus OC 8GB GDDR6
RAM: HyperX Predator DDR4 3200MHz CL16 16GB Kit (2x8GB) - XMP Profile 1
PSU: Corsair RM 850 W 80+ Gold Fully Modular ATX PSU
Storage: WD SN750 1TB NVMe SSD with Heatsink

What I've Tried So Far

• Updating BIOS using MSI BIOS Flashback+, both with and without all components installed
• Trying 4 different USB drives, both old and new
• Using BOOTICE to format/repartition USBs after each BIOS Update attempt
• Clearing CMOS both by shorting JBAT1 and by removing the CMOS Battery, both before and after BIOS updates
• Ensuring USBs used for BIOS Flashback were all formatted as FAT32, MBR partitions, with all BIOS files renamed to MSI.ROM (extension changed) as instructed on the motherboard manual
• Ensuring both the old and new CPUs were seated correctly
• Ensuring there are no loose cables
• Trying to roll back BIOS to the older, stable version that I was using with my R5 3600
• Trying to revert to older BIOS versions (seemingly successful, but still didn't POST)
• Trying to boot with only 1 RAM stick
• Allowing the system to stay up and running for a bit in case the BIOS/RAM needs training to recognise change in components etc
• Checked both old and new CPU for broken/bent pins etc, both look pretty good to me and I highly doubt I'd damage both CPUs to such a degree that I can't post on either, but could be wrong?

As mentioned above I feel like I've tried pretty much everything and I feel like there are no options left but to get a new motherboard and assume this one is bricked, but I may be missing something, and I really hope someone can help. At this stage I wish I hadn't gone for the greedy impulse buy, and I'd be happy if I can just use my 3600 as I was before...

Thanks so much if you've read all of this!

 

[drea.drechsler]

.... I was wondering if the B2 slot may be damaged or something....

Unfortunately that is a possibility. Two channels from the IMC, one can be defective with the other one working fine or with only specific memory types.

Probably answered before but I may have missed it but is all your memory on the QVL for the motherboard?

One thing to try is putting the other CPU back in and trying both channels with all memory.

Be sure to reset CMOS when changing memory and CPU's.

 

[invictus9407]

So looks like only one out of four slots is working, and not even with all sticks, though it did work with newer one few hours ago. And that all with 5600, right? The board has 1H BIOS version now? It is beta version after all, maybe that's the problem. Or it could be your shiny new 5600 has problem. Hate to ask for it after all that you have done before, but to know for sure you'll need to drop the 3600 back there again.

Yeah, the board is on the beta 1H BIOS. I guess that could be the culprit, but it's strange that with 2 different sets of RAM that previously worked, neither work with 2 sticks. I will do some more testing today, both with the 5600 and the 3600.

Unfortunately that is a possibility. Two channels from the IMC, one can be defective with the other one working fine or with only specific memory types.

Probably answered before but I may have missed it but is all your memory on the QVL for the motherboard?

One thing to try is putting the other CPU back in and trying both channels with all memory.

Be sure to reset CMOS when changing memory and CPU's.

Yeah, both sets of RAM are on the QVL list and have been used with this motherboard before with no issues. I heard that dust in a RAM socket might be an issue so I am going to just make sure that isn't the case, and try checking the B2 slot for damage. From there onwards I'll try clearing CMOS and changing CPU again to see if I can get to boot with 2 sticks. When replacing CPU and clearing CMOS, do you always recommend running with 1 stick of RAM first and then popping the 2nd one in, or is it OK to pop both sticks of RAM in straight away?

 

[drea.drechsler]

Yeah, the board is on the beta 1H BIOS. I guess that could be the culprit...

I don't think being beta is a factor, which is only done on BIOS that supports Ryzen 5000. I think that's because AMD wasn't officially releasing a Zen 3 AGESA for B450 even though it might be the same that's on many B550 and X570 boards. So with AGESA not officially released, MSI keeps the BIOS in BETA.

To my knowledge, MSI's not had one fully released BIOS supporting Ryzen 5000 on any B450 board, certainly not the B450m Mortar. They've even taken older Ryzen 5000 BIOS's off the list for downloading.

And no, I don't suggest trying one DRAM stick first then two normally. In your case it's pretty much troubleshooting as you need to know if there's a problem with one of your memory channels, and whether any such problem is in the motherboard or CPU...or for that matter, one of the memory sticks.

 

[invictus9407]

I don't think being beta is a factor. It seems this came up only with BIOS that supports Ryzen 5000. I think that's because AMD wasn't officially releasing the AGESA for B450 even though it might be the same that's on many B550 boards. So with AGESA not officially released, MSI keeps the BIOS in BETA. To my knowledge, MSI's not had one fully released BIOS supporting Ryzen 5000 on any B450 board, certainly not the B450m Mortar.

And no, I don't suggest trying one first then two normally. In your case it's pretty much troubleshooting as you need to know if there's a problem with one of your memory channels, and whether any such problem is in the motherboard or CPU...or for that matter, one of the memory sticks.

So I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but basically, with the older set of RAM that I have, I tried both sticks separately on slot A2 to confirm both sticks are fine. The issue is when I use both sticks together on slots A2 and B2. And the newer sticks don't work at all, even with 1 stick on A2. Very strange.

 

[drea.drechsler]

So I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but basically, with the older set of RAM that I have, I tried both sticks separately on slot A2 to confirm both sticks are fine. The issue is when I use both sticks together on slots A2 and B2. And the newer sticks don't work at all, even with 1 stick on A2. Very strange.

Have you ever tried A1 and B1; or 1st and 3rd DIMM sockets?

And have you tried the same things with the 3600?

And am I right to understand that A2 always works, with any single old-kit DIMM inserted?

When you say 'doesn't work' does it at least boot into BIOS even though it won't boot Windows?

Dirt or dust in the DIMM socket can be a problem, just be careful about how you go after cleaning it out. I'd suggest only using canned air as the contacts are very fragile and easily bent. If you can get some, CRC Electrical Contact cleaner (spray can) is also very effective.

 

[invictus9407]

Have you ever tried A1 and B1; or 1st and 3rd DIMM sockets?

And have you tried the same things with the 3600?

And am I right to understand that A2 always works, with any single old-kit DIMM inserted?

When you say 'doesn't work' does it at least boot into BIOS even though it won't boot Windows?

Dirt or dust in the DIMM socket can be a problem, just be careful about how you go after cleaning it out. I'd suggest only using canned air as the contacts are very fragile and easily bent. If you can get some, CRC Electrical Contact cleaner (spray can) is also very effective.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. So when I say "doesn't work", I mean I can't even boot into BIOS. There's a solid red light for VRAM EZ Debug light of my motherboard when I have 2 sticks on. I tried the old RAM kit with one stick on the 3600 and it successfully posted and booted, but I didn't try the 3600 with two sticks. I did try slots A1 and B1 on the 5600x with both the old kit and the new kit, and they did not post either (again I had the EZ Debug light for VRAM).

I've just cleaned the B2 RAM slot with compressed air, checked the slot for damage and checked all my RAM for signs of damage - everything seems fine. Clearing CMOS atm, will try some more combinations shortly. Do you think it's worth testing one stick only on the B2 slot, even though the MOBO says slot A2 should be used first?

 

[DRagor]

Do you think it's worth testing one stick only on the B2 slot, even though the MOBO says slot A2 should be used first?

I would go straight to all 4 sticks at once to save time. Only if that fails try other options.

 

[drea.drechsler]

.... Do you think it's worth testing one stick only on the B2 slot, even though the MOBO says slot A2 should be used first?

It might be a good idea since they are completely different channels.

If you're resetting CMOS between memory tries there certainly seems something wrong...whether motherboard or CPU is the issue. Having something else to swap parts around makes it easier to identify which.

 

[invictus9407]

I would go straight to all 4 sticks at once to save time. Only if that fails try other options.

So I have 2 separate kits of 2, one is a slightly older kit and the other one is newer (both HyperX kits). I've just tried again to POST with the newer kit after clearing CMOS, checking all slots and RAM sticks for damage and blowing out potential dust, popped both sticks at once in A2 and B2, but again no luck. Guess I will need to test with the 3600 as a last resort.

 

[drea.drechsler]

So I have 2 separate kits of 2, one is a slightly older kit and the other one is newer (both HyperX kits). I've just tried again to POST with the newer kit after clearing CMOS, checking all slots and RAM sticks for damage and blowing out potential dust, popped both sticks at once in A2 and B2, but again no luck. Guess I will need to test with the 3600 as a last resort.

If you pull the CPU...check pins and sockets really carefully. Use a bright light and sight down each row of pins in both directions for any that are missing or misaligned.

Same with the socket...it's hard to see the contacts but they should shine under the light. Look for any that are just a bit different.

 

[invictus9407]

If you pull the CPU...check pins and sockets really carefully. Use a bright light and sight down each row of pins in both directions for any that are missing or misaligned.

Same with the socket...it's hard to see the contacts but they should shine under the light. Look for any that are just a bit different.

Hmm OK, so am I right in thinking that it may be possible that both RAM sticks are not recognised because of potentially bent/broken pins or an issue with the CPU socket?

I did previously check both CPUs for this and as far as I could tell they were both all good, but it is quite hard to see if there are very small damages I am guessing.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hmm OK, so am I right in thinking that it may be possible that both RAM sticks are not recognised because of potentially bent/broken pins or an issue with the CPU socket?

I did previously check both CPUs for this and as far as I could tell they were both all good, but it is quite hard to see if there are very small damages I am guessing.

Damaged contacts can definitely affect memory since a huge portion of the 1,331 contacts are dedicated to memory address and data lines to the DIMM's. It should be easy to spot a misaligned pin on the CPU, more difficult a contact in the socket.

 

[invictus9407]

Damaged contacts can definitely affect memory since a huge portion of the 1,331 contacts are dedicated to memory address and data lines to the DIMM's. It should be easy to spot a misaligned pin on the CPU, more difficult a contact in the socket.

Thanks. I am going to look at that shortly. I did just manage to POST with one stick of the newer RAM in A2 which I wasn't able to do before. I recall you mentioning something about setting manual voltages, XMP etc. Do you have any tips, now that I am able to post with 1 of the newer sticks, maybe I can try saving some BIOS settings and popping in the second stick in B2 after to test?

 

[drea.drechsler]

... Do you have any tips, now that I am able to post with 1 of the newer sticks, maybe I can try saving some BIOS settings and popping in the second stick in B2 after to test?

Check the DIMM package for it's operating voltage and go into BIOS and set that...it's probably 1.35V. Reboot back into BIOS on that one DIMM and confirm the voltage setting is correct. Now shutdown and pop in the 2nd dimm in the A2 socket

DO NOT reset CMOS this time!

Now restart and see if it goes into BIOS. If it does, don't change anything. Try to restart into Windows...if it restarts into Windows go right to Cortana Search box and type in Memory Diagnostics. It will want to reboot to go into a diagnostic test, let it. Let it run through the test, it will take a while.

 

[invictus9407]

Check the DIMM package for it's operating voltage and go into BIOS and set that...it's probably 1.35V. Reboot back into BIOS on that one DIMM and confirm the voltage setting is correct. Now shutdown and pop in the 2nd dimm in the A2 socket

DO NOT reset CMOS this time!

Now restart and see if it goes into BIOS. If it does, don't change anything. Try to restart into Windows...if it restarts into Windows go right to Cortana Search box and type in Memory Diagnostics. It will want to reboot to go into a diagnostic test, let it. Let it run through the test, it will take a while.

Ok sorry for the spam, but false alarm lol. It seems like I got the RAM sticks mixed up. I posted again with the 1 stick of the older RAM. When I try the newer RAM with 1 stick on A2, the EZ Debug light goes off (so no indication of any problems on MOBO) but I do not POST, no picture on screen whatsoever. The behaviour seems strange overall. I guess the most likely answer is issues with some pins on the CPU, so I am going to test with the 3600 now as recommended.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Ok sorry for the spam, but false alarm lol. It seems like I got the RAM sticks mixed up. I posted again with the 1 stick of the older RAM. When I try the newer RAM with 1 stick on A2, the EZ Debug light goes off (so no indication of any problems on MOBO) but I do not POST, no picture on screen whatsoever. The behaviour seems strange overall. I guess the most likely answer is issues with some pins on the CPU, so I am going to test with the 3600 now as recommended.

What is the old RAM...I think the new RAM is the Hyper X Predator 3200 CL16?

Let's just stay trying to get the story with the old RAM for now since it works in one channel at least.

 

[invictus9407]

What is the old RAM...I think the new RAM is the Hyper X Predator 3200 CL16?

Let's just stay trying to get the story with the old RAM for now since it works in one channel at least.

So the older RAM is this Hyper X Predator 3200 CL16
The newer RAM is this Hyper X Predator 3600 CL17

I'm just clearing CMOS now and then will test with the R5 3600. Checked pins on both CPUs while swapping this out, and nothing bent or damaged as far as I can tell. This may be a stupid question, but can thermal paste on the sides of a CPU (nowhere near pins) also potentially cause issues? I can post a pic to show what I mean if that doesn't make sense.

 

[DRagor]

This may be a stupid question, but can thermal paste on the sides of a CPU (nowhere near pins) also potentially cause issues?

If it's not near the pins, no problem. Paste on the pins however might be big problem.

 

[invictus9407]

If it's not near the pins, no problem. Paste on the pins however might be big problem.

Yeah, nothing near the pins.

So, latest update after further testing with both CPUs:

-> 3600 CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on A2 - one stick only: posts
-> 3600 CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on both A2 & B2 with XMP P1 Enabled and voltage set manually to 1.35V - Posts. So B2 slot seems to be functioning.
-> 3600 CPU & 3600 CL17 (NEW) RAM on A2 - one stick only: does NOT post
-> 3600 CPU & 3600 CL17 (NEW) RAM on A2 & B2 - does NOT post
-> 5600x CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on A2 - posts.
-> 5600x CPU & 3200 CL16 RAM on A2 & B2 - does NOT post (I did not try this with XMP and manual voltage though which is my next test)
-> 5600x CPU & 3600 CL17 RAM on A2 - does NOT post
-> 5600xCPU & 3600 CL17 RAM on A2 &B2 - does NOT post

To summarise, the 3600 CL17 RAM which I've been using for 1.5 year up until this CPU upgrade attempt does not post at all (in some cases, the red light on EZ Debug disappeared but I still had a black screen and could not get into BIOS).

As mentioned above, I will now try to POST with the 3200 CL16 stick on the 5600x CPU, set XMP P1 and manual voltage and see if I can post with both sticks that way. If so, do you think it's safe to assume newer ram (3600 CL17) is dead?

Apologies if this is confusing with the old/new terminology lol

 

[DRagor]

I would not assume any RAM being dead until I could confirm that in another known-to-work machine. This one does not qualify for that name currently 😉
No new ideas or advice atm.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Yeah, nothing near the pins.

So, latest update after further testing with both CPUs:

-> 3600 CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on A2 - one stick only: posts
-> 3600 CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on both A2 & B2 with XMP P1 Enabled and voltage set manually to 1.35V - Posts. So B2 slot seems to be functioning.
-> 3600 CPU & 3600 CL17 (NEW) RAM on A2 - one stick only: does NOT post
-> 3600 CPU & 3600 CL17 (NEW) RAM on A2 & B2 - does NOT post
-> 5600x CPU & 3200 CL16 (OLD) RAM on A2 - posts.
-> 5600x CPU & 3200 CL16 RAM on A2 & B2 - does NOT post (I did not try this with XMP and manual voltage though which is my next test)
-> 5600x CPU & 3600 CL17 RAM on A2 - does NOT post
-> 5600xCPU & 3600 CL17 RAM on A2 &B2 - does NOT post

To summarise, the 3600 CL17 RAM which I've been using for 1.5 year up until this CPU upgrade attempt does not post at all (in some cases, the red light on EZ Debug disappeared but I still had a black screen and could not get into BIOS).

As mentioned above, I will now try to POST with the 3200 CL16 stick on the 5600x CPU, set XMP P1 and manual voltage and see if I can post with both sticks that way. If so, do you think it's safe to assume newer ram (3600 CL17) is dead?

Apologies if this is confusing with the old/new terminology lol

I'm not confident this motherboard's working right. Agree to test ram in another machine you might have.

The only advice I have is to re-flash BIOS to the latest but this time do it within BIOS using M-Flash utility. Obviously, you have to get it to boot reliably even on the single DIMM, whichever memory kit, whichever socket it works in.

The CPU wouldn't matter either as both the 3600 and 5600 works with the latest BIOS...if the board doesn't have some sort of glitch that prevents it working. But if there's a latent problem in the board that prevents a successful BIOS update even with the M-Flash utility it's not a board to trust anyway. I agree it's obviously a Hail Mary but worth trying if the option is getting a new board.

 

[invictus9407]

I would not assume any RAM being dead until I could confirm that in another known-to-work machine. This one does not qualify for that name currently 😉
No new ideas or advice atm.

Thanks DRagor for all the help so far. That makes sense, sadly I don't have any other machine to test the RAM on.

I'm not confident this motherboard's working right. Agree to test ram in another machine you might have.

The only advice I have is to re-flash BIOS to the latest but this time do it within BIOS using M-Flash utility. Obviously, you have to get it to boot reliably even on the single DIMM, whichever memory kit, whichever socket it works in.

The CPU wouldn't matter either as both the 3600 and 5600 works with the latest BIOS...if the board doesn't have some sort of glitch that prevents it working. But if there's a latent problem in the board that prevents a successful BIOS update even with the M-Flash utility it's not a board to trust anyway. I agree it's obviously a Hail Mary but worth trying if the option is getting a new board.

I will give the M-Flash a try later today or tomorrow, but I can confirm from within the BIOS that it already appears to be on the latest version (the Beta version that supports 5000 series CPUs, version 7B89v1H4). I have just tried the 3200 CL16 again (old RAM) with the 5600x.

Remember, I booted with one stick on the 3600 CPU and then set the XMP profile and voltage, and I was able to boot with 2 sticks with the 3600 CPU. I tried the same with the 5600x, clearing CMOS and then one stick boot, set XMP profile 1 and voltage to 1.35v, but I was not able to get 2 sticks to work with the 5600x. Very strange indeed. Both of the old sticks work and the A2 and B2 slots are both fine though, as confirmed from my tests so far.

I guess at this stage the issue seems to be either something to the with the beta BIOS and 5000 series Ryzen combined with my RAM choice, some pin issues with the 5600x that I am somehow not seeing, or something strange with the motherboard going on? It's just very strange to me how I'm not able to post even with 1 stick of the 3600 CL17 RAM all of a sudden, even on the old CPU, when I was using them perfectly fine for the last 1.5 year or so :/

 

[drea.drechsler]

Thanks DRagor for all the help so far. That makes sense, sadly I don't have any other machine to test the RAM on.


I will give the M-Flash a try later today or tomorrow, but I can confirm from within the BIOS that it already appears to be on the latest version (the Beta version that supports 5000 series CPUs, version 7B89v1H4). I have just tried the 3200 CL16 again (old RAM) with the 5600x.
...

I don't question it's on the latest. My concern is founded on all the problems you had getting a good flash-back. I can't say I know, it's pure guesswork that's why I'm calling this a hail mary, but I do know that the BIOS is updated in blocks and there are several blocks unloaded, the ROM address range cleared, and then the new block loaded. It progresses through until the whole BIOS gets loaded. The guess is: something went wrong even with the flash that finally got you a boot-able, but gimped, system. So just re-flashing the same BIOS might get all blocks cleared and reloaded, and doing it from the M-Flash utility is obviously the most robust way for you to do it.

I'd certainly try if it were my board. And if it sees it's the same BIOS rev and perversely refuses to over-flash it I'd put the 3600 in, along with whatever memory it will boot, and flash it back to the older BIOS. Check that memory works as it should. If it does then flash forward again and put in the 5600. Do this all using M-Flash.

 

[invictus9407]

I don't question it's on the latest. My concern is founded on all the problems you had getting a good flash-back. I can't say I know, it's pure guesswork that's why I'm calling this a hail mary, but I do know that the BIOS is updated in blocks and there are several blocks unloaded, the ROM address range cleared, and then the new block loaded. It progresses through until the whole BIOS gets loaded. The guess is: something went wrong even with the flash that finally got you a boot-able, but gimped, system. So just re-flashing the same BIOS might get all blocks cleared and reloaded, and doing it from the M-Flash utility is obviously the most robust way for you to do it.

I'd certainly try if it were my board. And if it sees it's the same BIOS rev and perversely refuses to over-flash it I'd put the 3600 in, along with whatever memory it will boot, and flash it back to the older BIOS. Check that memory works as it should. If it does then flash forward again and put in the 5600. Do this all using M-Flash.

Ok, I've tried updating the BIOS again this time using M-Flash but still no dice with the 2nd stick of RAM for the 3200 CL16. I also tried changing command rate to 2T as I read elsewhere that that may help, but still no dice. I am going to try the rest of the steps you've recommended tomorrow, as the last 2 days swapping things in and out has been quite tiring, and I can game for now with the 8GB of RAM that works somehow 😀

Thanks again for all the help so far

 

[drea.drechsler]

... as the last 2 days swapping things in and out has been quite tiring, and I can game for now with the 8GB of RAM that works somehow 😀

Thanks again for all the help so far

Can't blame ya for wanting some fun.

If the over-flash can't help things I have to think it's something else. If only it worked with two dimm's on the same channel (A1 and A2) we'd have a little more to go on...and at least you'd get 16Gb memory even if not dual channel.