Question Multiple BSOD's (after installing 21H2 or changing RAM ??)

Oct 22, 2022
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Hi,

Today i've experienced three BSOD's which seem to have different causes while running Windows 10 Pro. The computer was running fine until yesterday. Since yesterday i did two things i changed RAM sticks from 2x16GB to 2x32GB to 2x8GB (all Corsair LPX pairs) and i installed the 21H2 update for Windows. I now wonder what the problem is the RAM or the Win update or something else?

Hardware:
Intel 9900K
ASUS Z390-F Gaming (BIOS 2004 is up to date)
iGPU UHD 630
Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 (runs at 2133)
PSU BeQuiet (can't remember/see what model exactly because of the case)

What i tested so far (currently 2x8GB RAM installed)
  1. memTest86 (ran a full pass)
  2. sfc /scannow
  3. checkdisk
  4. disabled fast startup
  5. disabled XMP in BIOS
Everything looks good so far. Drivers look up to date too. No idea what other things i could test.

Any ideas?
 
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Oct 22, 2022
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Should i attach the mini dumps? Is this possible here?

Here a shortened version of the dumps (please note that i've no idea how to use/interpret WindDbg)

Dump #1

DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION (133)
MODULE_NAME: USBXHCI

Dump #2

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50)
Invalid system memory was referenced.
MODULE_NAME: win32kfull

Dump #3

SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION (3b)
An exception happened while executing a system service routine.
MODULE_NAME: nt
 
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DavidM012

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Shut down, power off mains and clean the dimms contacts with acetone or 90% isopropyl alcohol & a cotton wool pad rather than a fluffy cotton wool ball that might shed fragments.

Also lightly swab the dimm sockets & ensure all solvent has evaporated before powering on.

I had the same problem when I tried to install a couple of dimms and it took 2 or 3 tries to eliminate the bsod.

Also was getting a slightly weird problem with flash games - the pc was booting normally and working for everything apart from flash games where I couldn't click on anything in the flash window.

So I shut down, powered off mains and cleaned & reseated my dimms again. and it went back to normal.

Microsoft: Page Fault in non paged area

Cause
Bug check 0x50 can be caused by the installation of a faulty system service or faulty driver code. Antivirus software can also trigger this error, as can a corrupted NTFS volume.

It could also occur after the installation of faulty hardware or in the event of failure of installed hardware (usually related to defective RAM, be it main memory, L2 RAM cache, or video RAM).

That could mean - Dimms, CPU or GPU. Disk or AV software.


Try cleaning the dimms and sockets (carefully - don't ruffle the contacts in the sockets). Stress: With the mains switched off but plugged in so it's grounded to prevent esd (static discharge).

The possibility it might be a device driver - well kind of tough to figure that out. It was fine 'til you touched the dimms well switching hardware can cause windows to brain fart sometimes but the principle way to troubleshoot that is a clean installation.

If it's your dimms & sockets... windows setup will probably crash too. So clean them first and see if it clears up.

I just updated me winders 10 to 22h2 and downloaded the setup to usb and iso. Didn't have a problem with a clean install of 21h2 or 22h2.

Memory looks compliant to the support list. (page 7).
 
Oct 22, 2022
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@DavidM012 Thanks for the tips. The RAM contacts were already cleaned with isopropanol before i inserted them. Also take into account that i ran a full pass of memTest86 successfully. I also ran Windows Memory Diagnostic. What i now did was to run CheckDisk again and this time it repaired something. I'm currently looking for the logs to see what it did.
 

DavidM012

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And the sockets? 2 or 3 times?

Otherwise you might have to do a clean install of windows. I couldn't run 22h2 media creation tool on 21h2 so I had to download the iso from another site (twice because the first one downloaded the wrong size so I had to use internet download accelerator 6.26 to download the iso again) and then update from 21h2 to 22h2 using windows update and download the 22h2 iso from the media creation tool. (for offline storage in case I need to make another setup usb with rufus if meh usb drive kaks out.).
 

DavidM012

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2x16GB to 2x32GB to 2x8GB no, he switched up to 64gb.

CORSAIR CMR64GX4M4C3000C15(Ver3.32)(XMP) 4x 16GB DS Micron - 15-17-17-35 1.35 ● ● ●

However he is using 2x32gb modules rather than 4 x 16gb modules - which isn't on the list.

Difference of 1 model number - is compliance to the memory support list really that strict? So many times I've been told 'not tested doesn't mean it doesn't work'.
 
Oct 22, 2022
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Didn't find a log file, it's just not there, tried two different methods. Strange is that i have CheckDisk currently running again it seems to repair something again in Phase 4. What does that mean?

Edit: Found the log file. It didn't repair anything. It just took a few minutes at Phase 4 which looked like repairing to me.
 
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DavidM012

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Some sort of data corruption. Windows is struggling with something. I had this a couple a days ago. Couldn't do anything, setup repair wouldn't work so I cloned my partition to another disk to save some data and ran a clean install.

When you run a clean install of windows - try it with your new dimms installed & see if windows setup likes it or not. I mean if it completes it should be ok.
 
Oct 22, 2022
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I wonder whether the RAM change from 2x16GB to 2x32Gb down to 2x8GB has something to do with it. Maybe Windows still "thinks" more than 16GB total is available!?

I checked Virtual Memory, it's controlled by Windows itself, no manual settings.
 
Oct 22, 2022
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And the sockets? 2 or 3 times?

Otherwise you might have to do a clean install of windows. I couldn't run 22h2 media creation tool on 21h2 so I had to download the iso from another site (twice because the first one downloaded the wrong size so I had to use internet download accelerator 6.26 to download the iso again) and then update from 21h2 to 22h2 using windows update and download the 22h2 iso from the media creation tool. (for offline storage in case I need to make another setup usb with rufus if meh usb drive kaks out.).
What do you mean be sockets 2 or 3 times?
 

DavidM012

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Clean the dimm sockets on the mobo and the dimms contacts 2 or 3 times.

It should simply plug and play. There isn't a way to access windows system files. You can't copy over a windows directory with a new one and save your registry or merge windows installations or anything like that. Windows setup just creates a windows.old directory and installs a fresh copy.

If you run windows setup from within windows (since you can access it) you get a 'reset this pc' option which will keep your programs & user data.

If windows quits booting up properly and you can't access it you can't access 'the reset this pc' option from the setup usb. At least I couldn't. It just created a windows.old folder and installed a fresh copy.

Suppose you could look at the page file settings. Article on virtual memory. Maybe you don't have enough free disk space on your C: drive to accommodate a 64gb or more page file. Only you can see that.
 
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Oct 22, 2022
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Colif

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Windows doesn't remember ram settings. it just uses what the BIOS shows is there.. BIOS should be training itself to use ram. you could try to turn pc on with no ram. Obviously it won't work but would make it retrain itself to whatever is put in next start

if you didn't have errors before the ram upgrade, its more likely to be the ram compared to just upgrading win 10.
 

DavidM012

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CORSAIR CMK32GX4M2B3000C15(Ver4.31)(XMP) 2x 16GB DS - - 15-15-15-36 1.35 ● ●

Your original 32gb kit is compliant with the memory support list.

This is a list of the 3200mhz frequency 64gb kits from the memory support list:

CORSAIR CMD64GX4M4B3200C16 ver4.31 64GB(16GB*4) DS Samsung - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMD64GX4M4C3200C16 ver5.39 64GB(16GB*4) DS SK Hynix - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMK64GX4M4B3200C16 ver4.31 64GB(16GB*4) DS Samsung - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMK64GX4M4B3200C16 ver5.39 64GB(16GB*4) DS SK Hynix - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMU64GX4M4B3200C16 ver4.31 64GB(16GB*4) DS Samsung - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMU64GX4M4B3200C16 ver5.39 64GB(16GB*4) DS SK Hynix - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMR64GX4M4C3200C16 ver4.31 64GB(16GB*4) DS Samsung - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMR64GX4M4C3200C16 ver5.39 64GB(16GB*4) DS SK Hynix - 16-18-18-36 1.35V ● ● ●
CORSAIR CMR64GX4M4D3200C16 ver3.31 64GB(16GB*4) DS Micron 16-19-19-36 1.35V ● ● ●

So the full story is?

You started with 16gb (2x8).

Then upgraded to 32gb with qvl compliant memory. 2x16gb

Then upgraded to 64gb: 2x32gb

'The 64Gb kit is a CMK64GX4M2E3200C16 - not compliant with the support list by 2 model numbers: M2 E, rather than M4 whatever. B,C, or D.

So you did not mix 2 kits? The memory is not compliant to the support list. Some say it should work regardless of compliance to the list.
 
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Oct 22, 2022
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@DavidM012

The kits were not mixed, BIOS reported them correctly.

The BSOD's started after putting the 2x8GB kit in, which pass a full memTest86 pass though. One can't say for sure the RAM is the culprit IMO. When the 2x32GB kit were in i didn't do any stress tests or internet browsing. The problem could have been already there when 64GB were in. That's why i started to wonder if the 21H2 update may be the bad guy here. Kinda tricky situation.
 

DavidM012

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I ran windows 21h2 for quite a while but it did crap out on me eventually but when I did a fresh install of it everything was running smoothly again. First MS Edge stopped working and no reinstall of that would fix it. The media creation tool wouldn't work on 21h2 - maybe because the new media creation tool on MS Site is 22h2.

Then I simply updated the firmware of an ssd which wasn't even the primary drive at the time and after that the whole thing caved in, windows wouldn't boot, windows setup repair wouldn't fix anything, so I had to reinstall. I could copy my windows partition to another disk to save the data because I had prepared a disk genius bootable usb. Could not reinstall it with all my user a/c settings and apps. Windows wouldn't load so I couldn't run setup from within Windows.

After the clean install, I just updated to 22h2 using windows update - no probs at all. Edge is working, media creation tool is working, dunno what it was.
 
Oct 22, 2022
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I really haven't any ideas left other than to install the 2x32GB kit again. If there are BSOD's too then the RAM is probably not the problem. Then i maybe do a fresh Windows install on a separate drive.
 
Oct 22, 2022
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I changed the RAM back to 2x32GB, which didn't prevent freezes. I think the freezes and the BSOD's share the same cause. The BSOD's were when i didn't do much other then having notepad or a browser open. Since i didn't wanted to wait for random BSOD's i thought running YT videos would trigger them faster, which seems to be case. I also ran a Prime95 stress test which didn't cause any freezes. My conclusion is that there isn't a general system instability, but something specific.

What i then did was looking for newer drivers again. I could find a slightly newer iGPU driver (was 31.0.101.2111 now is 31.0.101.2114 ). Don't ask me why Intel has two different driver versions at different places on their website. I also reinstalled Intel Management Engine. So far no new crashes. Now looking for USB drivers.

Edit: i can't find any USB drivers. It looks like there is just an Intel USB controller on board. Is the driver installed when chipset is installed?
 
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DavidM012

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Don't know. Looks like they rely on Windows to install the usb driver. The only way to find out is to look in device manager at the driver version and then again after running the chipset driver install to see if it's changed.

Driver updating software like driver booster 4 from Steam isn't recommended because sometimes they install the wrong driver. I had that problem it always installs the wrong usb driver and my mouse stopped working but somehow I used the keyboard to tab over to reinstall the original usb driver.

You can't delete the page file though you can recreate it if you manually set it to 0 in advanced system settings and restart. Apps will crash without a page file though - you could possibly crash your windows install if you do that too. Since you have to restart and then set it back to auto or resize it or share it across several disks.

You seem to be avoiding a clean install of Windows. What is your C: drive and how much free space do you have on it?

More about Page file: How to determine appropriate size for page file

Minimum page file sizeMaximum page file size
Varies based on page file usage history, amount of RAM (RAM ÷ 8, max 32 GB) and crash dump settings.3 × RAM or 4 GB, whichever is larger. This size is then limited to the volume size ÷ 8. However, it can grow to within 1 GB of free space on the volume if necessary for crash dump settings.

3x 64 is 192gb or Volume size (disk size) + 8.

So basically the size of the page file depends on how many apps and what tasks you're running in windows - if you're running memory intensive apps you might want the larger size. The page file is dynamic on auto and can shrink and grow. If you set it to run across multiple disks it will hit the fastest drive anyway.

So with a 256gb volume (they are talking about the partition rather than the drive since you could have several partitions on a single drive) the max page file size would be 32gb.

So you'd need a 2 Terabyte drive for 256gb page file (which would actually be 192gb (x3 mem) in practice, while a 1 Terabyte drive could host a 128gb page file - less than the 3x Ram maximum.

So you could manually set the page file to 62.5gb if you have a 500gb drive, 128gb if you have a 1 Tb drive or auto if you have a 2tb drive and let windows use what it wants.

So it depends on the size of your disks and how many partitions you have installed on them, how much free space you have, and which disks are the fastest.

Only 'volatile' data may be written to the page file:

Multiple page files and disk considerations

If a system is configured to have more than one page files, the page file that responds first is the one that is used. This customized configuration means that page files that are on faster disks are used more frequently. Also, whether you put a page file on a “fast” or “slow” disk is important only if the page file is frequently accessed and if the disk that is hosting the respective page file is overwhelmed. Actual page file usage depends greatly on the amount of modified memory that the system is managing. This dependency means that files that already exist on disk (such as .txt, .doc, .dll, and .exe) aren't written to a page file. Only modified data that doesn't already exist on disk (for example, unsaved text in Notepad) is memory that could potentially be backed by a page file. After the unsaved data is saved to disk as a file, it's backed by the disk and not by a page file.

So any unsaved work in any open apps. that's stored in memory could be paged out to disk from memory if 64gb is used. If you never or hardly use the full 64gb of memory then windows will page less anyway.
 
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