[SOLVED] my PC won't send out any signal

[huynhat]

Hello Tom's HARDWARE community,
I'm a new user and would like to get some much needed help here.

Suddenly my pc give no signal to the monitor, both the external gpu and the integrated gpu

I have tried

• stripping it all, removing almost all components to the bare minimum and it still not work
• check if my monitor or cable is working properly (I'm using the same monitor and HDMI cable hook to laptop to write this post)

Please help me!

Spec: (after removing)

• MAIN: MSI B360 MORTAR
• CPU: I7 8700
• RAM: 8GB PARIOT
• PSU: COOLERMASTER 550W

Spec: (before removing)

• MAIN: MSI B360 MORTAR
• CPU: I7 8700
• RAM: 2 x 8GB PARIOT
• External GPU: MSI 1060 6GB
• PSU: COOLERMASTER 550W

 

[jojesa]

When you press the power button, does the system shows any signs of life (light, fans spinning, etc.)?
Any of the Debug LEDs stay on (CPU, RAM, VGA, BOOT)?
If it does power on, make sure the monitor is set to the right input.
If it does power on but there is not signal, power off, switch PSU to off and remove the power cord.
Press the power button for 15-20 seconds.
Remove the CMOS battery...wait 10 minutes and re-insert the CMOS battery back.
Remove GPU.
Connect the HDMI cable to the motherboard HDMI port.
Connect power cord, switch PSU to ON and power the PC.

 

[huynhat]

When you press the power button, does the system shows any signs of life (light, fans spinning, etc.)?

Yes It did power on, lights on, fans spinning.

Any of the Debug LEDs stay on (CPU, RAM, VGA, BOOT)?

the MSI mainboard has the EZ Debug LED and nothing light up

If it does power on, make sure the monitor is set to the right input.

already checked

If it does power on but there is not signal, power off, switch PSU to off and remove the power cord.
Press the power button for 15-20 seconds.
Remove the CMOS battery...wait 10 minutes and re-insert the CMOS battery back.

I can try but it will take some time

Remove GPU.
Connect the HDMI cable to the motherboard HDMI port.
Connect power cord, switch PSU to ON and power the PC.

without the step above,
already tried removing the external gpu and power on with mainboard HDMI,
does NOT work

 

[huynhat]

If it does power on but there is not signal, power off, switch PSU to off and remove the power cord.
Press the power button for 15-20 seconds.
Remove the CMOS battery...wait 10 minutes and re-insert the CMOS battery back.
Remove GPU.
Connect the HDMI cable to the motherboard HDMI port.
Connect power cord, switch PSU to ON and power the PC.

I follow closely all the steps, does NOT work.
It still the same as before.
What's happening jojesa?

 

[huynhat]

If it does power on but there is not signal, power off, switch PSU to off and remove the power cord.
Press the power button for 15-20 seconds.
Remove the CMOS battery...wait 10 minutes and re-insert the CMOS battery back.
Remove GPU.
Connect the HDMI cable to the motherboard HDMI port.
Connect power cord, switch PSU to ON and power the PC.

Okay new info, after the 3rd times trying this. It works.
It shows "Setting reset" something
and window 10 restarts.
@jojesa why is this happening? can you please explain to me?

 

[jojesa]

The motherboard BIOS appeared to be stuck somehow., since it was not even showing the EZ Debug LED. There are many things that could cause that to happen.
BIOS setting corrupted by power loss, faulty PSU (dirty power delivery), etc.. or Boot configuration or RAM or GPU or even Windows 10 fast startup.
Resetting the BIOS, by removing the CMOS battery could bring back the default settings, which works most of the times.
Removing the CMOS battery and placing it right back might not reset the BIOS, in some scenarios when there is still some residual power in the motherboard capacitors.
Pressing the power button when the PSU power cord is unplug could help with the residual power from capacitors.

 

[huynhat]

@jojesa, how do I prevent this from happening again?
There has been

• no power loss recently
• no signs of faulty psu, albeit this needs more testing to be sure of psu quality
• window 10 fast startup has been disabled already
• I don't see how can boot config and cpu/ram affecting bios setting?

 

[jojesa]

@jojesa, how do I prevent this from happening again?
Very hard to prevent it, since it can happen to anyone

no signs of faulty psu, ...

It is very hard to detect PSU power delivery issues, since testing equipment is required.
Just because A PSU powers on and powers a PC it doesn't automatically means is working as it should.

I don't see how do boot config and cpu/ram can affect bios setting?

A RAM hiccup where 1 becomes a 0 could cause the BIOS to halt.

 

[huynhat]

@jojesa please helppp
I cannot manage to boot when
- install the other ram stick,
EZ Debug LED keep flashing lights between CPU and DRAM
nothing is shown on the screen
I tried using others ram slots but no prevail

- install the gpu
it straight up doesn't show anything, no debug led, no monitor signal

 

[jojesa]

Is that an 8GB RAM kit? What's the model?
The RAM modules should be installed on slots A2 & B2 (2nd & 4th from the CPU)

To see if the issue is with a RAM module.
Boot the PC with one stick, installed on slot A2.
Power off and place the other RAM stick on slot A2.
Does it boot without issues each time?

 

[huynhat]

Is that an 8GB RAM kit? What's the model?
The RAM modules should be installed on slots A2 & B2 (2nd & 4th from the CPU)

Yes it is 8GB 2666 stick.
Model:
https://viper.patriotmemory.com/pro...nce-memory-ram-viper-gaming-by-patriot-memory

Specs:
https://assets.website-files.com/5cdb2ee0b102f96c3906500f/5dd6bed2d6128e4f88f96782_PVE48G266C6GY SKU Sheet_Copyable_062819.pdf

To see if the issue is with a RAM module.
Boot the PC with one stick, installed on slot A2.
Power off and place the other RAM stick on slot A2.
Does it boot without issues each time?

Okay I just tried it, with A2 slot:

• first stick/kit: works fine, normal boot, yes I can actually get into Windows 10
• the other: make pc flash CPU and DRAM led, then immediately reboot. Then it just keep reboot, flash led, reboot, ...

=> so the second RAM kit is faulty?

but what about the gpu?
It won't show up anything when inserting the external gpu.

 

[jojesa]

Yes it is 8GB 2666 stick.
Model:
https://viper.patriotmemory.com/pro...nce-memory-ram-viper-gaming-by-patriot-memory

Please pay attention to what I ask, so we can be in the same page.
You have two a 8GB RAM modules. Right?
If so, are the RAM modules from a RAM kit or they came separate?
RAM kits are pair of RAM modules, tested and packed together to work in multi-channel mode.

Okay I just tried it, with A2 slot:

• first stick/kit: works fine, normal boot, yes I can actually get into Windows 10
• the other: make pc flash CPU and DRAM led, then immediately reboot. Then it just keep reboot, flash led, reboot, ...

=> so the second RAM kit is faulty?

but what about the gpu?
It won't show up anything when inserting the external gpu.

Did you place the 2nd 8GB RAM module by itself on RAM slot A2 and the PC won't boot?

If the RAM is faulty then the system won't boot...consequently nothing will be shown on the monitor.

 

[huynhat]

Please pay attention to what I ask, so we can be in the same page.

My apology, my limited experience give me misunderstanding of the question.

You have two a 8GB RAM modules. Right?

Yes that is correct.

If so, are the RAM modules from a RAM kit or they came separate?
RAM kits are pair of RAM modules, tested and packed together to work in multi-channel mode.

er .. when I purchased them, they were in 2 boxes,
so .. I guess they are separate.

Did you place the 2nd 8GB RAM module by itself on RAM slot A2 and the PC won't boot?

Yes,
I removed the 1st module and inserted the 2nd module on slot A2 (2nd from left to right)
PC won't boot,
and debug led flashing "CPU" and "DRAM"

If the RAM is faulty then the system won't boot...consequently nothing will be shown on the monitor.

so .. do my answers above clarify the problem?
and the second ram module is at fault then?

 

[jojesa]

It could be that second RAM module is faulty or the BIOS is set with the first RAM module settings (timings) and it get stuck when the second RAM module with different internal timings is inserted.

To know for sure, you will have to test one RAM module, reset the BIOS, then install the other RAM module.

As per your motherboard, it is recommended to install RAM modules from a RAM kit.
RAM modules from a kit are tested to work together.

It is hard to predict the outcome when you mix and match modules that were not tested to work together.
Even though you are buying two of the "exact same" modules, there is no guarantee that they will work together. Manufacturers don’t guarantee when mixing or adding one RAM module to another, even when they appear to be the "exact same" model.

Mixing RAM with different internal timings could caused the motherboard to refuse to work even when the RAM modules appear to have similar specs.
I have purchased RAM modules that appear to be similar and the IC chips came from different manufactures.

To be sure that RAM will work together you will have to buy a RAM kit.

Just so you have an idea how this could happen, there are many memory companies like Patriot on the market but only 3 DRAM chips manufacturers (Micron, Samsung, and Hynix).
When you buy RAM modules separate, Patriot could have place DRAM chips from any of 3 DRAM chips manufacturers.
When you buy RAM kits, the RAM modules are selected to work together and they usually have DRAM chips from the same manufacturer.

 

[huynhat]

It could be that second RAM module is faulty or the BIOS is set with the first RAM module settings (timings) and it get stuck when the second RAM module with different internal timings is inserted.

To know for sure, you will have to test one RAM module, reset the BIOS, then install the other RAM module.

Okay new info:
I just pull out an old ddr4 8gb 2133 or 2400 something RAM
Result: boot normally, plug in and Windows 10 recognize both RAM modules (the 1st and the old) as 16gb in total, run in 2133hz.

I took both out, reset BIOS, inserted and boot only the 2nd module.
Result: still can't boot, debug led flash "CPU" and "DRAM"

just to be sure, I removed the 2nd module, inserted and boot only the old 2133/2400.
Result: boot normally, BIOS and Windows 10 recognize 8gb run in 2400hz whack

so .. how this result looks like?

As per your motherboard, it is recommended to install RAM modules from a RAM kit.
RAM modules from a kit are tested to work together.

Wait, how do you know which motherboard should go with which RAM?

It is hard to predict the outcome when you mix and match modules that were not tested to work together.
Even though you are buying two of the "exact same" modules, there is no guarantee that they will work together. Manufacturers don’t guarantee when mixing or adding one RAM module to another, even when they appear to be the "exact same" model.

Mixing RAM with different internal timings could caused the motherboard to refuse to work even when the RAM modules appear to have similar specs.
I have purchased RAM modules that appear to be similar and the IC chips came from different manufactures.

To be sure that RAM will work together you will have to buy a RAM kit.

Just so you have an idea how this could happen, there are many memory companies like Patriot on the market but only 3 DRAM chips manufacturers (Micron, Samsung, and Hynix).
When you buy RAM modules separate, Patriot could have place DRAM chips from any of 3 DRAM chips manufacturers.
When you buy RAM kits, the RAM modules are selected to work together and they usually have DRAM chips from the same manufacturer.

WHOAAAAAAAAAAA
How do you even know all of this?
wow man you are amazing!!!

 

[jojesa]

Okay new info:
I just pull out an old ddr4 8gb 2133 or 2400 something RAM
Result: boot normally, plug in and Windows 10 recognize both RAM modules (the 1st and the old) as 16gb in total, run in 2133hz.

I took both out, reset BIOS, inserted and boot only the 2nd module.
Result: still can't boot, debug led flash "CPU" and "DRAM"

just to be sure, I removed the 2nd module, inserted and boot only the old 2133/2400.
Result: boot normally, BIOS and Windows 10 recognize 8gb run in 2400hz whack

so .. how this result looks like?

So it looks like the old 2133/2400MHz RAM module might work together with the 8GB Patriot stick.
It could be that both have similar timings when running at 2400MHz.
I would keep those two and to make sure they are really working together 100%, I would test the with Memtest86 from a USB flash drive.
A computer could boot fine, that does not automatically implies that the RAM modules are working together...you could get errors when performing day to days tasks.

Wait, how do you know which motherboard should go with which RAM?

The motherboard manufacturer lists tested RAM on their website and RAM configuration on the manual.
MSI B360 Mortar tested RAM list

WHOAAAAAAAAAAA
How do you even know all of this?
wow man you are amazing!!!

Thanks, I have been building and troubleshooting computers for a while now...so you learn a thing or two thru the years.

 

[huynhat]

So it looks like the old 2133/2400MHz RAM module might work together with the 8GB Patriot stick.
It could be that both have similar timings when running at 2400MHz.
I would keep those two and to make sure they are really working together 100%, I would test the with Memtest86 from a USB flash drive.
A computer could boot fine, that does not automatically implies that the RAM modules are working together...you could get errors when performing day to days tasks.

I think Im gonna use the 1st with the old at A2 and B1 (2nd and 3rd slot) for now.
Im gonna take that 2nd module to service/warranty, there's still over a year left, my local dealership warranty including making sure it works with the mainboard.

===================================================

Back to the 2 modules, apart from Memtest86, is/are there other(s) way to tell if those 2 work together? What you mean by

get errors when performing day to days tasks.

Let's take these study cases:

• main use case I draw some sketches, images on Adobe Illustrator/Figma, make multiple version, refine details, ...
• I load an audio clip into Adobe Audition, edit it, tune it.
• I load a video clip into Adobe Premier/Blender, cut it, make a new movie out of the actual content, apply effect, ...

so .. what is the definition or example of errors in these cases?
cuz obviously I don't care if those errors nuke some break-time Youtube tabs.

===================================================

The motherboard manufacturer lists tested RAM on their website and RAM configuration on the manual.
MSI B360 Mortar tested RAM list

I swear this is the first time I open that "Compability" tab on the msi manual site 😗
And also the first time I hear the term "tested RAM list" for mainboard.
Wooosh, I guess I learn some/lots of thing new today 😀

===================================================

Thanks, I have been building and troubleshooting computers for a while now...so you learn a thing or two thru the years.

Removed by moderator

And err .. I guess you have or own or partially own a computer shop irl?
And use the forum as a source of learning materials? 😉

 

[jojesa]

I think Im gonna use the 1st with the old at A2 and B1 (2nd and 3rd slot) for now.
Im gonna take that 2nd module to service/warranty, there's still over a year left, my local dealership warranty including making sure it works with the mainboard.

No one can guaranteed that RAM modules will work together 100% if they are not from a RAM kit ...that have been tested by RAM manufacturer.
If you get that RAM module exchanged, you could get another one that might not work with RAM module you already have.

Back to the 2 modules, apart from Memtest86, is/are there other(s) way to tell if those 2 work together? What you mean by

Let's take these study cases:

• main use case I draw some sketches, images on Adobe Illustrator/Figma, make multiple version, refine details, ...
• I load an audio clip into Adobe Audition, edit it, tune it.
• I load a video clip into Adobe Premier/Blender, cut it, make a new movie out of the actual content, apply effect, ...

so .. what is the definition or example of errors in these cases?
cuz obviously I don't care if those errors nuke some break-time Youtube tabs.

It doesn't have to be a specific program or app, even Windows could crash when RAM modules are not working in tandem.
Example:
You open a Word document and type "hello", the CPU sends this to RAM: "01001000 01100101 01101100 01101100 01101111 00100001".
All those ones and zeros for just the word "hello". Just imaging how many of those ones and zeros the RAM handles in an hour.
What do you think it will happen if the RAM timings are not in tandem or one module sends a zero instead of one? The computer could have a micro freeze that you might not even notice, or it could crash with a BSOD.

I swear this is the first time I open that "Compability" tab on the msi manual site 😗
And also the first time I hear the term "tested RAM list" for mainboard.
Wooosh, I guess I learn some/lots of thing new today 😀

Not surprised

And err .. I guess you have or own or partially own a computer shop irl?
And use the forum as a source of learning materials? 😉

I do not own a computer shop.
When it comes to technology, I like to share my knowledge and help others.

 

[huynhat]

No one can guaranteed that RAM modules will work together 100% if they are not from a RAM kit ...that have been tested by RAM manufacturer.
If you get that RAM module exchanged, you could get another one that might not work with RAM module you already have.

cries in poor-ness

It doesn't have to be a specific program or app, even Windows could crash when RAM modules are not working in tandem.
Example:
You open a Word document and type "hello", the CPU sends this to RAM: "01001000 01100101 01101100 01101100 01101111 00100001".
All those ones and zeros for just the word "hello". Just imaging how many of those ones and zeros the RAM handles in an hour.
What do you think it will happen if the RAM timings are not in tandem or one module sends a zero instead of one? The computer could have a micro freeze that you might not even notice, or it could crash with a BSOD.

so as long as nothing crash? my module is good to go?
anyway, what about my 1060 gpu?
the board won't boot when I insert the gpu

Not surprised

.__.

I do not own a computer shop.
When it comes to technology, I like to share my knowledge and help others.

a lot of folks in my country choose not to share.
especially expertise, which is always used for making money.

 

[jojesa]

anyway, what about my 1060 gpu?
the board won't boot when I insert the gpu

Have you tried installing the GPU on the second PCIe slot.
Make sure the GPU is seated properly in the PCIe slot.
Depending on the GPU version you need either a 6-pin or 8-pin power connector from the PSU.
Make sure the power connector is properly connected.

What's the model of the PSU?

 

[huynhat]

Make sure the GPU is seated properly in the PCIe slot.
Depending on the GPU version you need either a 6-pin or 8-pin power connector from the PSU.
Make sure the power connector is properly connected.

yeah I did make sure of those
- seated: check
- 6-pin power: check

Have you tried installing the GPU on the second PCIe slot.

I don't think I am capable of mounting it on the second slot ._.

What's the model of the PSU?

This one: Cooler Master MWE-500 500W
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/power-supplies/mwe-series/mwe-500/#specifications

 

[jojesa]

I don't think I am capable of mounting it on the second slot ._.

Why is that?
Which PC case do you have?

This one: Cooler Master MWE-500 500W
https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/power-supplies/mwe-series/mwe-500/#specifications

The Cooler Master MWE-500 White Series is ok for systems with integrated graphics (iGPU) but I would not use it with a dedicated GPU.
That PSU might is not very reliable and at times is not even capable to deliver the power it says it does.

 

[huynhat]

Why is that?

well, in short, the metal cover the back of 2nd pcie slot,
appear to have to be .. snap open .. in a open-door-with-crowbar style
the metal is hard and sharp.
the joint is also very hard and solid.

ah heck just look at the picture (this is the best quality my potato phone can get)

those thing have to be opened; otherwise, the card won't fit in.

Which PC case do you have?

This one: SAMA Combat (basically a China made metal frame)
https://www.globalsources.com/Computer-rack/Trendy-Tempered-glass-1169966954p.htm#1169966954

err ... I don't think specs is available in English though.

The Cooler Master MWE-500 White Series is ok for systems with integrated graphics (iGPU) but I would not use it with a dedicated GPU.
That PSU might is not very reliable and at times is not even capable to deliver the power it says it does.

wait, hold on there,
500W is only enough for integrated GPU??!
What?
the CPU i7 8700 needs 65W (tdp)
and the GPU 1060 has a recommended PSU of 400W
which means the GPU tdp must be lower than 400W right? much lower?
combine both, shouldn't a degraded 500W PSU still have plenty of power?

 

[jojesa]

well, in short, the metal cover the back of 2nd pcie slot,
appear to have to be .. snap open .. in a open-door-with-crowbar style
the metal is hard and sharp.
the joint is also very hard and solid.

ah heck just look at the picture (this is the best quality my potato phone can get)

those thing have to be opened; otherwise, the card won't fit in.

Usually, cases come with brackets that have a screw, so you could cover the opening when not in use.
That case, you will have to snap open the metal bracket with pliers or a flat screwdriver and you won't be able to install it back.

wait, hold on there,
500W is only enough for integrated GPU??!

What?
the CPU i7 8700 needs 65W (tdp)
and the GPU 1060 has a recommended PSU of 400W
which means the GPU tdp must be lower than 400W right? much lower?
combine both, shouldn't a degraded 500W PSU still have plenty of power?

Yes, a reliable 500W PSU is enough to deliver power to the components on that system.
The GTX 1060 uses less than 130W
Just because a PSU has a 500W on the label, it does not mean it can constantly deliver that wattage or even close.
When the PC is powered on (especially with a dedicated GPU), there is a surge in wattage draw as you boot up a computer, it lasts for only a fraction of a second and that's enough to prevent a cheap PSU from working properly.

 

[huynhat]

Usually, cases come with brackets that have a screw, so you could cover the opening when not in use.
That case, you will have to snap open the metal bracket with pliers or a flat screwdriver and you won't be able to install it back.

Well, that's to be expected of a 20$ case.
I don't think I have a plier or a flat screwdriver.
So .. let's not try it then?
Albeit, nothing duct tape can't handle. sticking it back with duct tape for the win.

Yes, a reliable 500W PSU is enough to deliver power to the components on that system.
The GTX 1060 uses less than 130W
Just because a PSU has a 500W on the label, it does not mean it can constantly deliver that wattage or even close.
When the PC is powered on (especially with a dedicated GPU), there is a surge in wattage draw as you boot up a computer, it lasts for only a fraction of a second and that's enough to prevent a cheap PSU from working properly.

err ... so what decide a PSU is reliable?
continuous wattage?
mine psu don't even list its continuous wattage

and that PSU isn't cheap though, at least for me budget, at least for the price when the psu was purchased.
so are you saying that the psu is not reliable or fit for the job?