BeyRevRa

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<A HREF="http://www.starcraftdream.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152" target="_new">click here</A>

Ok, so I still play Starcraft... I know its old but its the best RTS ever IMO. Thats beside the point. This guy asks for the best system he can build for 800 bucks so I priced out the system that you can see in that topic. He then MSN's me and reems me for recommending a 64 over a Pentium 4. So I asked him what the purpose of the system was and he said "Gaming". I then showed him the AMD64 vrs Pentium 4 graphs on Anandtech.com for Doom 3 and told him that was the newest, most system intensive game out right now, and the 3000+ performed almost comparable to the $1,000 Pentium 4 EE. He then told me that AMD processors were glitchy and unreliable and that the charts were fudged cuz Anandtech "Favors AMD".

What I need because I haven't bookmarked any charts is anything you guys have that I could show that AMD64s are better than the P4s. I know theres lots of stuff out there I just don't have it off hand. Also, if you have anything that shows the stability of the two processors that would be helpful too.

BTW he wants to get a Pentium 4 2.4C instead because he believes it has a "Way better price/performance ratio".

AMD 64 3400+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum
1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
ATI AIW 9600XT
WD Raptor 74GB
 

darko21

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BTW he wants to get a Pentium 4 2.4C instead because he believes it has a "Way better price/performance ratio".


He's prolly right, If overclocking the p4C @ 2.4 might be the way to go. They overclock well and are not expensive. A64's are not known as great over clockers.

See crash I can choke out the facts too.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

BeyRevRa

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You think he could overclock it to outperform a 3000+ Athlon 64?

AMD 64 3400+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum
1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
ATI AIW 9600XT
WD Raptor 74GB
 

darko21

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You think he could overclock it to outperform a 3000+ Athlon 64?

Maybe not in doom3 but that is just 1 game. I think the p4c @ 3.0 Ghz is almost as cheap as the a643000+ so a P4C @ 2.4 should be much cheaper if you can find it and should overclock well with good memory to at least a p4C @ 3.0 Ghz which preforms around par overall with an a643000+.

So if overclocking I'd say the p4C @ 2.4 Ghz is the better value running todays software.

You could use other arguments like sempeon 3100+ that might be priced closer to the p4C @ 2.4 Ghz. No matter how you look at it though the p4C @ 2.4Ghz is good value for the overclocker.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

BeyRevRa

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P4C 2.4 = $150
P4C 3.0 = $218
AMD64 3000+ = $170

All taken from Newegg.com. 20 bucks more gets you the 3000+ or for the exact same money he could get the 2800+.

AMD 64 3400+
MSI K8N Neo Platinum
1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
ATI AIW 9600XT
WD Raptor 74GB
 

darko21

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The prices here in canada are not quite as far apart as at newwegg. So he saves 20 on the cpu but has to spend more on fancy memory. 3000+ should have the overall advantage in gaming and a few other things like nx cool&quite 64bit potential. So I'd prolly go a643000+ but clearly overclocking a 2.4C to 3.0 Ghz aint a bad option.

Graphics card is by far the biggest issue and if he prefers intel let him buy it. With good cooling he might get that p4C to 3.2 or even 3.4 Ghz offcourse needs expensive memory.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

trooper11

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seriously, i doubt youll convince him with benchmarks form any site at all. if he is such a conspiracy theorist that he thinks anandtech, one of the most complete review sites ive seen, is biased towards amd, he is unconvincable. the fact taht he belives amd chips today are elss reliable then intel chips says it all. he is uninformed and yet he isnt open to any other numbers then those that favor his blind position. ppl like that are hard to ever convince otherwise. i cna name many review sites, but i bet you money he will come back wiht the same things, saying they are biased and 'fudged' results. let him live in fantasy land if he wants lol.

but if you want to try, here are a few sites, some older reviews, some newer:

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTI0" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTI0</A>

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-3000.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-3000.html</A>

<A HREF="http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q1/athlon64-3000/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://tech-report.com/reviews/2004q1/athlon64-3000/index.x?pg=1</A>
 

trooper11

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what do you mean by fancy memory? what fancy memory does the athlon 64 require? It will use most any types of ram just like the p4 setup, there have been many articles pointing to such tests.
 

darko21

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Fancy memory for the p4C to overclock it.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

trooper11

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ah i thought you meant the other way around lol.

i guess you do have to account for that and also the cost of better cooling and possibly better mobo or power supply. thats just one of my pet peeves about system recommendations, i rarely will offer someone a system becuase it can overclock better. i take stock versus stock. overclocking shouldnt be a plus or a minus for a cpu, and it should only be a deal breaker for those enthusiasts that do it. its not like its a failure on one company or another to provide it.
 

Cybercraig

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I don't care which one he gets, if he doesn't pay attention to his Vid card Doom3 will eat his lunch! I'm not sure a P4 2.4C OC'd to 3.2ghz could beat an A64-3000+ OC'd to 2.3ghz in any game environment.

Abit IS7 - 2.8C @ 3.4ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
 

endyen

Splendid
For OCing, the xp-m are the best deal. Not only is the multi unlocked, but you can put it on the nforce 2 ultra boards. Anyone who thinks the intel chipsets are more stable, or in any way better than the nforce 2 ultra, is completely separated from reality. The soundstorm adds a whole new dimension also.
Personally, I would go A64 now. Who needs outdated stuff like the XP chips or the P4s.
 

darko21

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yup xpm and nforce2 ultra. good combo that is what i use. but if buying today i would not go that route. To each their own but if i was buying today I'd prolly get 939 nforce3 with a a64 3000, 3200 or 3400 depending how much money I had to blow. That being said I don't see any need for me to upgrade for a while yet.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

Johanthegnarler

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The computer i'm on right now is using mushkin basic pc3200 ram 512x2 sticks.
75 dollars per stick of ram. Can't beat that. 150 dollars for a gig, and it isn't slowing the cpu down either.

I really don't want to give this to my friend :( that i built it for.

AMD64 3200+
Chaintech VNF3-250
2x512 Mushkin basic ram
Antec performance case with 350W ps(believe it or not the voltages are rock solid even on the mobo)
OEM saphire 9800pro(with samsung ram and xtable bios)
17" samsung syncmaster 793df monitor
all for 980bucks. Ordered late monday night recieved it Thursday morning.
www.newegg.com NO RMA's as of yet.

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623</A>
46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
I believe the 2.8C is the cheapest "C" Intel produces. 2.4C has been out of production since last year, I think the 2.6C ended production a couple months ago.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
The only way the 2.4C should be cheaper than the 2.8C is if it's being discounted as an "old" product. It's certainly been out of production a long time.

Choking? I've been recommending A64 systems for around 2 months, if ever I choked it would have been long ago!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 

darko21

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It might be discontinued but I'd bet it's easyier to get in a store over the 3.6 Ghz we keep hearing intel talk about. Thats the 3.6 Ghz they just slashed prices on.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
It's all just money to me, I'll buy my next CPU from...what am I saying, I write reviews and get hardware free.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 

darko21

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Somewhat off topic are we not?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
Discussion ment to go towards value of processors (originally) and perspective (on that value, last post).

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 

darko21

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Sorry you lost me once again. what does you writing an article have to do with anything?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
 

phial

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your friends a dumbass, seriosly



he said Anandtech is biased? does he think he is neutral? haha. hes just recommending Intel beacuse of its name, he obviously doesnt know a thing about the actual performance..

for GAMING, a 3000+ is faster than a 3.0c , let alone a 2.6 or a 2.4 like he said

-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A>
Brand name whores are stupid!
 

Crashman

Polypheme
Former Staff
The processor with the best value to me is the one that supports the most review samples. The processor that yields the greatest value to anyone else will likely be the one with the greatest performance at a given price, or the lowest price at a given performance level. So what I'd buy or get free is irrelavent to value, hence I'd tell him what I'd buy but I can't. Q. What should I buy? A1. I'd buy this if I were you. A2. But I'm not in your position so make up your own mind.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 

trooper11

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surely you cna make an educated suggestions based on knwon prices and experience wiht the hardware. being in a position to get free hardware should give you an even more educated look at the pieces since you havent been restricted as to what you can try.

i know thats been the way for me since i get a few review samples now and then.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Tell him to buy a Celeron... =Þ
Seiously dont loose your time you know your right and you know hes dumb!

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0