Build Advice New build :D

[gekosauras]

HTTPS://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/93DfYN
Am trying to build a higher end hobby machine.
The computer will not be overclocked ever.
Wanted a 40 series card with a cpu that won’t bottleneck.
Height: 354 - 543mm (14.0 - 21.5")
Width: 170 - 300mm (6.7 - 11.8")
Weight: Up to 25kg (55lb)
I am not too sure on the gpu and cpu combo but am mostly afraid of the motherboard / case problem aswell as the ram slots and what I have chosen
I wanted a motherboard with 2 m.2 slots managed to find one with four and was happy with that. But is there any known problems or is it solid?
I checked the case and it should fit the space but I’m not too sure as am dumbo.
Cant find weight of pc but iv been told “good luck getting a pc to 25kg”
I know you can’t use different read/write rams slots so iv chosen 128gb worth of the same ram card is what I have chosen okay?
Is the cpu good for a 40 series iv just rechecked and think I should change it for something greater closer the gpu.
Is the gpu a good 40 series card or is there another mid-high price point gpu I should look at?

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Some AIOs have VRM fans as well. Tower air coolers cannot cool the VRMs.

Very true. I missed that one!

 

[geofelt]

Very true. I missed that one!

Normal orientation of a tower type cooler directs the airflow through the cooling fins, past the VRM's and out the back of the case.

 

[gekosauras]

You had said earlier that you want a somewhat quiet case. The Fractal Design North is not quiet under load. It is very nice looking and offers great thermal performance but it is noisy.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fractal-design-north

Thankyou so much!
I’ll have to look that over.
Almost at my last question
I’m still unsure as what I’m looking for to fill the driver bay.
I believe 4 4Tb m.2 and 1 500gb for operating systems should be over extensive for needless reason (I want this) but still want to fill the bay needlessly. just not sure of the whole”hard disk drive - solid state drive” stuff. i have done very little research on it but I have found or been told after a surface look that some people simply don’t put in the larger disks because they just use m.2s.
If I was to fill the bay what would or what am I looking for that could preform as close as possible to a m.2
And yes I will find a new case as I want it to be as silent as possible.

 

[Lafong]

Four 4 TB M.2 and 1 500 GB for OS.

That is 16.5 terabytes.

Why 16.5 rather than 6.5 or 66.5?

"Windows" can fit 10 times over on a 500 GB drive.

Any motherboard you might consider will support:

M.2 drives; likely 2 or more

2.5 inch SSDs; several

Standard spinning hard drives; several.

There's not much performance difference between the first 2 categories.

What is your best reason for NOT considering 2.5 inch SSDs?

I'm trying and failing to understand your thought process generally.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Normal orientation of a tower type cooler directs the airflow through the cooling fins, past the VRM's and out the

Okay, but wouldn't the air coming from said air cooler be warmer? Passing warm air over a device to cool it doesn't work to cool it. Not all motherboards have the VRMs in the same location.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Normal orientation of a tower type cooler directs the airflow through the cooling fins, past the VRM's and out the back of the case.

AIOs with VRM fans are able to cool the VRMs better than a tower cooler. Just look at the Arctic Freezer II. It is able to cool the VRMs like a HSF with a downward fan.

 

[geofelt]

Noise comes from fans running at high RPM.s.
The case comes with two 140mm front intake fans. That should be plenty for normal air cooled operation.
One 120mm rear exhaust fan is a good idea to direct the airflow over the components and out the rear of the case.

The case Comes with two dedicated 2.5" mounts and two 3.5"/2.5" mounts
2.5" can be used for 2.5" sata ssd devices or 2.5" spinning laptop drives(very slow)
3.5" is used only for 3.5" Hard drives.

m.2 devices are fast and easy to install initially. Adding one later is not as easy as adding a 2.5" drive.
But, any motherboard will have a limited number of m.2 slots, and not all will operate at the top speeds.
I would install windows on one 4tb drive for starters and add devices as needed.
Prices are constantly coming down.
Don't lock yourself into anything long term. Your needs may change.

 

[gekosauras]

Four 4 TB M.2 and 1 500 GB for OS.

That is 16.5 terabytes.

Why 16.5 rather than 6.5 or 66.5?

"Windows" can fit 10 times over on a 500 GB drive.

Any motherboard you might consider will support:

M.2 drives; likely 2 or more

2.5 inch SSDs; several

Standard spinning hard drives; several.

There's not much performance difference between the first 2 categories.

What is your best reason for NOT considering 2.5 inch SSDs?

I'm trying and failing to understand your thought process generally.

Why 16.5 tb
Because I can
Why operating systems on a 500gb m.2
Dono, didn’t think they made them smaller now days.
I’m not not considering any storage options
I currently use some drives of some description however I don’t know what’s good anymore.
I’m treating this as I know nothing and all new research for the build. I just know what I want for it to do, not what to put in it.
I’ll have to find a new case to know about the bay.
ssds with a high righting rate Is what I’m after and they will be sata connectors yes? Clears the earlier confusion
The most suitable storage for the build is fastest and largest storage.
After someone cleared by concerns about 4tbs being unsafe I am more then willing to use them

 

[geofelt]

Okay, but wouldn't the air coming from said air cooler be warmer? Passing warm air over a device to cool it doesn't work to cool it. Not all motherboards have the VRMs in the same location.

Fans do not cool. A pc does not sweat like we do.
Fans move air. The objective is to get heat from components out of the case asap.
With a front mounted aio radiator, the aio has fresh air to cool the cpu, but at the expense of sending the warm exhaust over the motherboard, vrm's and gpu.
OTOH, a top mounted aio radiator exhausting air will work with warmed case air and not cool the cpu as well.
Temperatures inside the case will be 50c. or so.
Both methods work well enough.
To move more air, one can run fans faster, but at the expense of more noise.

 

[gekosauras]

Noise comes from fans running at high RPM.s.
The case comes with two 140mm front intake fans. That should be plenty for normal air cooled operation.
One 120mm rear exhaust fan is a good idea to direct the airflow over the components and out the rear of the case.

The case Comes with two dedicated 2.5" mounts and two 3.5"/2.5" mounts
2.5" can be used for 2.5" sata ssd devices or 2.5" spinning laptop drives(very slow)
3.5" is used only for 3.5" Hard drives.

m.2 devices are fast and easy to install initially. Adding one later is not as easy as adding a 2.5" drive.
But, any motherboard will have a limited number of m.2 slots, and not all will operate at the top speeds.
I would install windows on one 4tb drive for starters and add devices as needed.
Prices are constantly coming down.
Don't lock yourself into anything long term. Your needs may change.

Okkkk thankyou, once I find a new case.
Check for 2.5” slots for later use.
Add sata ssds when needed
I understand parts will drop in price. That is something that I’m willing to eat. Thank you for your input thoe.
If a motherboard has two m.2 slots and one is nonfunctional u would say it’s a broken motherboard right? Like u say just because it has 5 slots they won’t run at the same speed, they will still work? And would slot 1 be “faster” then slot 5 assuming all m.2s are the same or?

 

[Lafong]

Some SSDs use SATA connections.

Some don't.

You need to put MORE THAN the OS on the M.2. You need to include applications.

It might be that all you need is 500 GB for the OS and applications combined. It might be that you need 4 TB for the OS drive and applications combined. We don't know.

You haven't given us anything to go on...other than that you apparently like capacity "because I can".

" I’m not not considering any storage options". I'm not sure what that means.

"I just know what I want for it to do". You do, but we don't. Can you describe that in any detail beyond "performance mammoth"?

"The most suitable storage for the build is fastest and largest storage." You can easily get a lot more storage than 16.5 terabytes. At your budget, there will be a conflict between "fastest" and "largest". Pick one.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Why 16.5 tb
Because I can
Why operating systems on a 500gb m.2
Dono, didn’t think they made them smaller now days.
I’m not not considering any storage options
I currently use some drives of some description however I don’t know what’s good anymore.
I’m treating this as I know nothing and all new research for the build. I just know what I want for it to do, not what to put in it.
I’ll have to find a new case to know about the bay.
ssds with a high righting rate Is what I’m after and they will be sata connectors yes? Clears the earlier confusion
The most suitable storage for the build is fastest and largest storage.
After someone cleared by concerns about 4tbs being unsafe I am more then willing to use them

Modern consumer SSDs have the fastest read/writes at 1TB+. There are also different types of flash storage being used and that affects R/W speeds as well. The Crucial P3s example use QLC (quad layer cells) flash which is great for capacity but lower on endurance (not an issue for consumers) and R/W speeds. Most high-end SSDs will have TCL (tri level cells) with DRAM write cache. The Western Digital Black SN850X is one of the cheaper versions of these. They have higher endurance and better R/W speeds.

SATA SSDs are at this point in time old tech. The SATA interface was developed for spinning HDDs back in the early 2000s. It is limited to 6Gbps interface so about 550MB/sec R/W speeds. Most M.2 SSD use the NVMe protocol which was designed for flash storage. This runs on the PCIe bus and the most current tech uses 4 lanes of PCIe 5.0 for 128Gbps for a theoretical 16GB/sec R/W speeds. Drives aren't hitting those speeds yet and PCIe 5 drives are very expensive right now. Most M.2 drives being sold are PCIe 4 drives for up to 8GB/sec R/W speeds. Most games cannot use the added bandwidth over PCIe 3. Video encoding can use the added bandwidth and games will start to use the added bandwidth in the future.

 

[geofelt]

Why 16.5 tb
Because I can
Why operating systems on a 500gb m.2
Dono, didn’t think they made them smaller now days.
I’m not not considering any storage options
I currently use some drives of some description however I don’t know what’s good anymore.
I’m treating this as I know nothing and all new research for the build. I just know what I want for it to do, not what to put in it.
I’ll have to find a new case to know about the bay.
ssds with a high righting rate Is what I’m after and they will be sata connectors yes? Clears the earlier confusion
The most suitable storage for the build is fastest and largest storage.
After someone cleared by concerns about 4tbs being unsafe I am more then willing to use them

You really don't want the C drive to be small.
The os does lots of random reads and writes. A large ssd will have plenty of empty nand blocks to do writes without having to read and update. A Large C drive will be more efficient.

As to reliability of different devices, I go to Newegg and look at the reviews of actual purchasers.
Look at the zero egg reviews to see what kinds of issues the device has.
Ignore user errors no delivery issues or coupon redemption....
For example the crucial 2tb p3plus:
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-2tb-p3-plus-nvme/p/N82E16820156301?Item=9SIA2W0K0R8877
A popular samsung 970 evo 2tb:
https://www.newegg.com/samsung-970-evo-plus-2tb/p/N82E16820147744?Item=9SIA12K9B91625

 

[jeremyj_83]

It might be that all you need is 500 GB for the OS and applications combined. It might be that you need 4 TB for the OS drive and applications combined. We don't know.

The actual applications are usually pretty small, Adobe Lightroom for example is only about 10GB in size. The data is the large part. Using a 500GB or 1TB (with SSD priving 1TB makes the most sense) for the OS and programs and another larger drive for data or games makes the most sense.

 

[jeremyj_83]

You really don't want the C drive to be small.
The os does lots of random reads and writes. A large ssd will have plenty of empty nand blocks to do writes without having to read and update. A Large C drive will be more efficient.

As to reliability of different devices, I go to Newegg and look at the reviews of actual purchasers.
Look at the zero egg reviews to see what kinds of issues the device has.
Ignore user errors no delivery issues or coupon redemption....
For example the crucial 2tb p3plus:
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-2tb-p3-plus-nvme/p/N82E16820156301?Item=9SIA2W0K0R8877
A popular samsung 970 evo 2tb:
https://www.newegg.com/samsung-970-evo-plus-2tb/p/N82E16820147744?Item=9SIA12K9B91625

I will say that if a drive crashes in the warrantied period you want to have a drive from a reputable company. Micron, while reputable, makes warranty replacements hard. I assume Crucial will be the same as that is Micron's consumer side. However, Western Digital makes warranty replacements VERY easy. I know this from experience doing warranty replacements for enterprise equipment at work. The WD replacement was easy and we are still having problems with Micron after 2 months.

 

[geofelt]

As a basic principle, I think it is unwise to try to "future proof" a build.
Your needs may change, and there will be newer/cheaper/better products o come.
Buy what you need for today, and for the next 2/3 years.

As to how many m.2 slots you need, that can be handled with a pcie add in card.
Here is one for 4 devices:
https://www.amazon.com/SABRENT-4-Dr...8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Fans do not cool. A pc does not sweat like we do.
Fans move air

I didn't suggest fans cool. I merely pointed out that as an air cooler passes cooler air in the from the front, that when it comes out of the rear of the cooler, it is warmer than before entering and so adds heat to any component behind the cooler (assuming the orientation you mentioned). Warm air passing over a device does not cool said device.

Anywho, slightly off topic now, so will leave it at that.

 

[gekosauras]

Modern consumer SSDs have the fastest read/writes at 1TB+. There are also different types of flash storage being used and that affects R/W speeds as well. The Crucial P3s example use QLC (quad layer cells) flash which is great for capacity but lower on endurance (not an issue for consumers) and R/W speeds. Most high-end SSDs will have TCL (tri level cells) with DRAM write cache. The Western Digital Black SN850X is one of the cheaper versions of these. They have higher endurance and better R/W speeds.

SATA SSDs are at this point in time old tech. The SATA interface was developed for spinning HDDs back in the early 2000s. It is limited to 6Gbps interface so about 550MB/sec R/W speeds. Most M.2 SSD use the NVMe protocol which was designed for flash storage. This runs on the PCIe bus and the most current tech uses 4 lanes of PCIe 5.0 for 128Gbps for a theoretical 16GB/sec R/W speeds. Drives aren't hitting those speeds yet and PCIe 5 drives are very expensive right now. Most M.2 drives being sold are PCIe 4 drives for up to 8GB/sec R/W speeds. Most games cannot use the added bandwidth over PCIe 3. Video encoding can use the added bandwidth and games will start to use the added bandwidth in the future.

sooo
Ssd Dram is basically a cache that has a limit that allows you to move folders/data quickly but will slow down if it’s larger than the cache?
Basically don’t worry about it and keep your data in the right place/get it if you need to move data around frequently?
I shouldn’t have to move large amounts of data between storage or anywhere for that matter.Not more then once every 6 months atleast. Even using my current setup I don’t really notice transfer times.
after a surface glance of research it seems I don’t need pci 4 and to stick with 3.
There was a post I think u sent about ssds on YouTube. After watching that I don’t think the write speed needs to be too crazy because it just becomes irrelevant. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I just go for something like I have chosen.

 

[Bob.B]

Thankyou so much!
I’ll have to look that over.
Almost at my last question
I’m still unsure as what I’m looking for to fill the driver bay.
I believe 4 4Tb m.2 and 1 500gb for operating systems should be over extensive for needless reason (I want this) but still want to fill the bay needlessly. just not sure of the whole”hard disk drive - solid state drive” stuff. i have done very little research on it but I have found or been told after a surface look that some people simply don’t put in the larger disks because they just use m.2s.
If I was to fill the bay what would or what am I looking for that could preform as close as possible to a m.2
And yes I will find a new case as I want it to be as silent as possible.

Let's say you install a 500GB for the os and apps and a 4TB disk for storage and this allows you to do everything you want.

Now you install multiple other disk which sit there and do nothing.

Suddenly one of these do nothing disk decides to go bad and creates wonky stuff to happen.

My choice is to just install the needed stuff and then add stuff as needed.

 

[gekosauras]

Let's say you install a 500GB for the os and apps and a 4TB disk for storage and this allows you to do everything you want.

Now you install multiple other disk which sit there and do nothing.

Suddenly one of these do nothing disk decides to go bad and creates wonky stuff to happen.

My choice is to just install the needed stuff and then add stuff as needed.

Would a disk not being used but installed cause problems?
Could that not just happen to any disk

 

[Lafong]

Here's an idea:

Get a PCIe 4.0 with DRAM for the OS drive, big enough to include ALL installed applications, with some space to spare for future growth.

For all other drives, get either 2.5 inch SSDs or PCIe 3.0 M.2 drives. That would probably save you some money that you could spend elsewhere.

There are some situations where it might make sense to use a traditional very high capacity spinning drive for storage only. Even up to 20 TB or so on a single drive. All depending on your specific use pattern.

 

[Bob.B]

Would a disk not being used but installed cause problems?
Could that not just happen to any disk

Yes.

 

[gekosauras]

Here's an idea:

Get a PCIe 4.0 with DRAM for the OS drive, big enough to include ALL installed applications, with some space to spare for future growth.

For all other drives, get either 2.5 inch SSDs or PCIe 3.0 M.2 drives. That would probably save you some money that you could spend elsewhere.

There are some situations where it might make sense to use a traditional very high capacity spinning drive for storage only. Even up to 20 TB or so on a single drive. All depending on your specific use pattern.

Nuf said, probably only use 8tb regularly. I’ll remake the build soonish.

 

[jeremyj_83]

For all other drives, get either 2.5 inch SSDs or PCIe 3.0 M.2 drives. That would probably save you some money that you could spend elsewhere.

There really isn't any difference in price between them. For example in 4TB drives the Crucial P3 (PCIe 3) is $230 whereas the Crucial P3 Plus (PCIe 4) is $233. The WD Blue SA510 (SATA) is $255.