Build Advice New build stuttering

[niftynd]

Hello,
Recently built this pc with the following specs:
GTX 1660, Ryzen 7 2700, 16GB ram, MSI B450M Mortar, Seasonic Psu 520w, SSD 240GB.

I noticed that I get a lot of stuttering while playing video games.

Temperatures while gaming are as follows: GPU - 80 degrees and CPU - 50 degrees.

the GPU usage used to only be around 40% but after I adjusted the 3D settings for max performance it now went up to 80%. It now feels more stable, but stuttering is still there.

In PUBG, I get around 120fps on 1920x1080p on all low settings, and when it stutters is drops to around 60fps.
In Fortnite, I usually get between 200-300fps on 1920x1080 all low settings, and when it stutters it drops to around 80fps.
I also experience some weird tearing, almost like the same couple of frames are being replayed 3 or 4 times if that makes any sense?
I tried re-plugging the DVI cable,
I also used to overclock the ram to 3200, I have now restored default values in bios but it didn't fix.
I was thinking about taking the CPU and GPU out and re-installing them in the PC but not sure if that would do anything?

Could you guys suggest any improvements I could make? I still have time to return the GPU if i have to.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, removing and reinstalling those components is unlikely to change anything, in THIS situation, with the type of symptoms you are experiencing.

I would recommend that you FIRST go through this list, and do anything you've not already done ESPECIALLY the clean install of the Nvidia drivers.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-MORTAR#down-driver&Win10 64

Then go to the AMD website and download/install the MOST recent chipset drivers for your motherboard.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory tab. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.


Fourth,

Make sure the problem is not just a bad cable or the wrong cable IF this is a no display issue. If it is NOT related to a lack of display signal, then skip to the next step.

This happens a lot. Try a different cable or a different TYPE of cable. Sometimes there can be issues with the monitor or card not supporting a specific specification such as HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0, or even an HDMI output stops working but the Displayport or DVI output still works fine on the graphics card. Always worth checking the cable and trying other cables because cables get run over, bent, bent pins or simply were cheap quality to begin with and something as simple as trying a different cable or different monitor might be all that is required to solve your issue.


The last thing we want to look at,

for now anyhow, is the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.

Clean install guide using the DDU



​

 

[niftynd]

I opened the PC and noticed that the CPU had a 4 pin connector instead of a 8 pin. Could that affect performance?
Also, I updated bios and it looks different now, not sure if I updated the right one? I attached pics of how the bios looks like.
The version I now have is AMI 1.8. The old version was AMI 1.3.
new bios menu - https://ibb.co/FnzkPff
old bios menu - https://ibb.co/bN9sGDx

I am going to re-install the drivers next.

/update
Ok so far I have:

• updated bios
• clean uninstalled nvidia drivers with the DDU program and re-installed them.
• installed amd software and all the drivers
• updated motherboard drivers

The memory I have is Corsair 2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16 but it is only running at 1066 each. I did overclock it to 3200mhz before but I restored default values as I thought the overclocking was causing the stuttering. The ram is placed in slot 2 and 4 away from the CPU.
As far as cable goes, I only have a DVI cable and a VGA cable, but the GPU doesn't have a VGA slot so I can't test it.

I will try to play some games for a bit to see if the driver and bios changed improved the situation. Will come back with an update later. Thank you for the help so far!

 

[Darkbreeze]

BIOS looking different is expected. Even more so this time than usually, at least on MSI boards.

https://www.techpowerup.com/257201/...ail-amds-zen2-backwards-compatibility-promise

Try putting the memory back to the XMP profile at 3200mhz. Then verify that the memory configuration is as expected by downloading CPU-Z and looking on the memory tab to see that it says "dual" next to "channels#" and verify that the DRAM frequency is showing ~1600mhz.

 

[niftynd]

Ok so I selected one of the XMP profiles which has 3200MHZ and 16-18-18-36 clock times.
I was gaming for a bit with the ram at 3200 and the bios and drivers updated and in some games like fortnite it does feel more stable, but stuttering is still there, especially in pubg.

If I benchmark my cpu and gpu and compare the results with other people's results would that help identify if there's a problem with one of my components?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Is that 240GB SSD the only storage drive on the system? How full is it?

Have you taken a look at your CPU or GPU temps while gaming to see if thermals are spiking when you are seeing these stutters? If not, I'd do that next. Download Ryzen master if you don't already have it installed, open it, and then see what your CPU temps are doing at the same time you are seeing stutters. Take a look at VRM temps as well. You might be better off to install HWinfo, (NOT HWmonitor, Speccy, Speedfan, or any other) and use that to take a look at all the system sensors including core temps, package temps, GPU temps, VRM and other motherboard temps, system voltages, etc.

 

[niftynd]

The 240GB SSD is the only storage drive I have. There's 50GB of free storage on it. It's like 3 years old as well, recycled it from old build, but the drive usage is always really low while gaming.

I will check the temp spikes tomorrow and come back with an update.

 

[niftynd]

Ok so I have been looking at temps while playing and they do fluctuate quite a bit, but it is hard to tell whether it happens when the stuttering happens. I only have 1 monitor so hard to game and look at real-time statistics. For example, I've noticed that when fps goes lower, temps go higher. Usually happens when I'm fighting in pubg or when there's a lot of people near me in the lobby. One thing I noticed is that EDC (CPU) in razer master is always 99%. Is that normal?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Temperature fluctuations are completely normal. What is NOT completely normal is if the CPU core or package temps exceed 80°C.

Your EDC reading is due to the fact that you are running that board on a model known to have problems with the VRMs on high core count CPUs. The Mortar and Tomahawk have this problem and many of us cannot find any other reason for it aside from it being a design flaw on these motherboards, specifically the MSI Mortar and Tomahawk models.

There are some things you can try though.

First, make sure you have the most recent motherboard BIOS version installed.

Second, make sure that in the control panel or Windows settings section you have the power plan set to Balanced.

Are you running Windows 10 and if so, what is the BUILD version you are on? You can type Winver into any run or search box, such as on the start menu, and the build version will be shown. Latest version is build 1903 released in May of this year.

Also, in the BIOS, you may need to make sure that Precision boost is not enabled.

Overall, this is a known problem, and IMO it results in VRM throttling because systems that don't have this problem tend to show much lower percentages for EDC which is directly related to VRM power delivery.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=316529.0

https://community.amd.com/thread/230768

 

[niftynd]

Bios is updated and windows version is 1903.
When I select Balanced mode (the default windows option not the Ryzen Balanced Plan) EDC fluctuates between 45-90%. I also tried High Performance but in the Minimum Processor State I changed from 100% to 5% and that also works, but even if my move my mouse it goes back to 99%. If it stays at 100% most of the time can it damage the components?

Also regarding the temps, not sure about each package, but the CPU temp in Ryzen Master while gaming usually stays around 50 degrees.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So then, CPU temp is fine. EDC fluctuating between 45-90% is acceptable. 99-100%, not so much. I'd leave it on balanced. Out of curiosity, when it is set to balanced, what does the default min and max processor power default TO? Historically I tend to like 8% and 100%, but that might affect the EDC value which would defeat the whole point of setting it to balanced. This seems to only be a problem on B450 boards because they are limited to 4 phase VRM configurations, I guess. I'd personally never own a motherboard without six or more power phases, at least. But I also tend to be an avid overclocker as well.

 

[niftynd]

When I leave it on balanced stuttering gets so much more frequent, and even on balance the moment I move my mouse EDC goes to 99%. The default min processor state on the Balanced option is 5% and maximum is 100%.
I monitored the CPU Core Current using HWinfo while under load and highest value was 50A. Not sure if CPU Core Current and EDC are the same thing tho.
I am curious tho, can high EDC damage my build?

 

[Darkbreeze]

That depends on whether or not your motherboard has VRMs that can handle the electrical design current (EDC).

I would personally recommend setting the Performance settings, with a min of 5-8% and a maximum of 100%. It will of course fluctuate and will jump very high when it is under a full load. That is normal so long as you are not staying there all the time or exceeding what your VRMs can handle.

Again, it's worth noting that "what your VRMs can handle" is not going to be the same on a 4 power phase B450 design as it is on a 6, 8, 10 or 12 phase X470 design.

This is why, IMO, B450 is a poor choice for any of the 8 core or higher Ryzen processors. More cores means higher power requirements. Higher power requirements without sufficiently designed power delivery is going to result in problems of one form or another in most cases, but it will probably show up more on some boards than on others due to the quality of the actual components that make up the voltage regulation module and power delivery system.

Not all power phases and VRMs are equal. Just because two systems are both 6 phase, doesn't necessarily mean that they are equally capable. Some boards incorporate better designs and components than others. This is what you pay for when you invest in a higher end board.

EDC - Electrical Design Current, maximum peak current the VRM can supply for short periods / transient conditions (100% is maximum)

You can find as much information on EDC as you care to read about here on any of these threads:

https://www.google.com/search?safe=...67j0j0i131j0i131i67j33i299j33i160.MLmIbMFI6Fg