New Nvidia GeForce 8800GT Surprises

[EricVPI]

stranger wins, lol

 

[TSIMonster]

Really, DOES Anyone want a week old XFX 8800GTS 320? Has a lifetime warranty...

 

[Kamrooz]

I skipped almost 90% of the replies. But honestly though..I don't see the 8800 GT as the long awaited midrange solution. It does perform EXTREMELY well. It can almost top the 8800 GTX...Which is actually can do in a few benchies...

The 8800 GT, IMO, is a card that just through the entire order out of whack. We needed a new high end. But nvidia just delivered a product that completely destroyed their range of products in terms of price/performance. These cards will sell like hot cakes but it's going to provide a negative impact on their other cards. At the 200-250 range, a card that can deliver near the performance of it's 500 dollar bigger brother?....WTH were they thinking. They are just going to have excess stock of 8800 GTS/GTX 80/90 nm parts floating around.

Overall they will sell this quickly and rake in some cash. But they are throwing their folder completely out of whack. Honestly though, I was really expecting a new high end. Followed by a family of suitable mid ranges. At least a refresh of the 8800 GTX on a smaller process, with some improvements to bring out the x900/x950 variants...which we've seen in the past. But this move just does not make sense...I expect to see these cards sell like hotcakes. The bang per back value is just ludicrous. But the overall effect it will have on it's higher priced variants will be pretty massive.

Overall, confusing situation. Fantastic card that deserves praise. But a possible idiotic move imo. They did need to deliver a great mid range card. They succeeded...but pretty much demolished any reason to fork over 300-500 for the more expensive counterparts. For those who will run under the wrong impression and try to bash me for any reason...Try to think of it from a business stand point. This card is a fantastic buy....But it just threw all their other cards out of whack. Unless they plan to reveal a new high end during november (If Nvidia has been secretive). As every new generation is released...the new mid range counter parts offer the performance of their previous gens flagship in most cases. The pricing for this card, lines up well with that in mind. But who knows...Might be a new high end coming around november if they've kept everything under wraps.

But yea...The current state of things just doesn't make sense. Of course I doubt anyone would care considering the price performance ratio. But for those who like to look at the entire picture...It really...does not make sense.

 

[prodystopian]

Really, DOES Anyone want a week old XFX 8800GTS 320? Has a lifetime warranty...

Sure. How's ten bucks sound to you?

 

[gpippas]

justinmcg67

Stranger is right. The performance will not change with a PCIE 2.0 mobo because their is no bottleneck on PCIE1.1.

As for the card its very impressive. Especially for a midrange card. Makes you think what will the high end cards do.

I would love to buy one of these right now but having been waiting for what feels like forever it would be ridiculous not to wait two more weeks to see ATI's offering.

 

[aadamszc]

Gawrsh, it would be terrible for me if it turned out to be like the 2900PRO.

 

[TSIMonster]

Sure. How's ten bucks sound to you?

lowballer!

 

[silverhw]

I'm gonna hold off on the 8800 gt cause I get the feeling Nvidia is going to release an upper range card after Ati releases the 3800.

 

[Kamrooz]

the 2900 pro isn't a real solution. It's just a way for AMD/ATI to release their stock of r600 chips. It's a brilliant strategy. Release a under clocked 2900XT under the 2900 pro name. For a measely 250 you get a 400 dollar product. You just have to OC it to XT levels..Which many people have done and even surpassed the XT clocks. The 2900 pro in my eyes wasn't a failure. A success on giving a good value to customers as well removing their excess chips in preparation for the new r670 core.

But when it comes to this new 8800 GT...it just doesn't make sense..It's a great card..Theres no point to buy a GTS 640 or 8800 GTX now...Which is a bad thing for Nvidia. They've already reaped the rewards with these cards so it won't hurt them THAT much anymore. But, they just completely blew the price/performance ratio/portfolio into oblivion...The only sense I can make out of this...Is there might be a possible surprise release of a new high end refresh during november. If not....This release just doesn't make much sense at all. Unless they plan to literally sweep the entire mid range. Meanwhile sacrificing their high end income in order to stomp on AMD/ATI till nvidia releases a new high end. There could be some point behind that...But overall it's a confusing ordeal. Curious to see how the 3800 series will perform. Obviously, most the problems with the r600 series should be resolved...So we might have another great performer coming in the next few weeks. Especially considering they changed the name to the 3800 series...There would be no point to do so unless the performance gap between the 2xxx and 3xxx series is large enough.

 

[justinmcg67]

what potential?

The potential of having double the transfer rate. That's what PCI-Express 2.0 is.

if there is no bottleck, then why do you need a faster bus, more power yes but more bandwidth?

Why do you need a faster bus? You don't, it's just new technology and fun to experiment with. That's the whole point I've been trying to make. Is seeing the potential of the PCI-Express 2.0 bus.

then you are saying that there is a bottleneck with x16 pci-e

No, I'm saying there's performance gains to be had with a new interface.

you never answered a single one of my points nor backed up anything you have said, you say a new card and yet what is actually new about this that gives it more potential than the gtx?

How did I not answer any of your points? I just told you to look up the MaximumPC Holiday 2007 issue. Shoot I'll grab my digital camera for you and take some shots of the article and show you what they discuss about it if you'd like. What's new about the 8800GT that gives it POTENTIAL to beat it is the double transfer rate of PCI-Express 2.0. Looking at Anandtech's article is comes fairly close in performance with it. Doubling the transfer rate might help surpass it.

The whole point was to wonder and think about new technology and get great performance for a much smaller amount of cash.

I'm sorry that you aren't as thrilled about new technology as I am. This could've been a great discussion on the potential of PCI-Express 2.0 and this card specifically.

 

[DiamondWraith]

I'm gonna hold off on the 8800 gt cause I get the feeling Nvidia is going to release an upper range card after Ati releases the 3800.

or get an EVGA now and step up when the time comes like I'm planning too.

 

[rhaezor]

Anyone else annoyed by this? 3 weeks ago I bought an XFX 8800 GTS 320 MB for $299 (not counting rebate).. now they release the 8800 GT and it costs less money and performs better? Damnit. I hate that crap. I knew it would happen EVENTUALLY but 3 f**kin weeks later is quite annoying. It's not like I can return my card and buy this one. sigh

 

[wirelessfender]

Kamrooz, I totaly agree with you! I am sorta frustrated with the release of this 8800GT because I was too looking for something that could run crysis better but not something that runs almost as good as something that is better but for a price that would make you foolish to not to get....if...that..makes any sense. However, I thought that Nvidia was upgrading the existing GTS's to 112shaders too? Did I hear that wrong or is thats what is going on? Anyone?

 

[wirelessfender]

AND Does anyone know if you can step up with EVGA having the GTS 640 to the GT 512? Isnt it less money though, do they send YOU a check for the difference???

 

[Kamrooz]

I doubt you can step up to a lower card. You might be able to do it without getting the difference back. But I really doubt EVGA would even do this. With the performance of this card.....I really doubt they would though. They'd want to sell as many as possible compared to stepping up many people to a lower priced card.

Honestly though...This is just my opinion though. But don't expect a swift step up. I expect this card will sell out rather quickly....So they'll tend to sell more of them compared to stepping up everybody. I expect this card to be a massive hit even though it is confusing for its price.

Hopefully the 3800 series can fight back...Which I believe it will ^.^.

 

[ghostwalker]

or get an EVGA now and step up when the time comes like I'm planning too.

Is EVGA the only company that does a stepup program?

 

[Kamrooz]

Yes...But I find the step up program to be overrated. With XFX you can sell the product while transferring that lifetime warranty as well. This way you can nab a high end card and down the road...let's say a month before the release of a new high end...pop it on ebay and sell it for 50-100 under the current retail price. Then slap on 1-3 bills and buy the new high end. Overall the XFX programs has much more longevity compared to EVGA 3 month step up program. For the long run XFX is better. Plus you can swap out the heatsink for an after market heatsink if you wish. You're also covered on overclocking within the warranty. So it's a much safer/better choice imo. EVGA's lifetime warranty is nice..But it's not as thorough as XFX...Plus he step up program is indeed nice but the duration and transferable warranty makes XFX better in my book. Especially how a 2nd hand buyer will have the warranty as well. It makes it more desirable for a 2nd hand purchase.

 

[rodney_ws]

stranger wins, lol

I knew that the moment I realized he was replying. After actually reading his reply, well... I still agree.

 

[justinmcg67]

ah i see where the confusions lies. you do not understand how a computer works, the bus is a communication interface between components, it has nothing to do with performance. Are you maybe conusing the memory interface of the gfx cards themselves?

No, not at all. I was, and still am stating that POTENTIAL is to be had within PCI-Express 2.0. Why si that so hard to get across to you?

no, there would only be performacen gains fromthe new interface if the current one was not a bottleneck. if the cpu was sending more information and the gpu was requesting more information than the pci-e bus could handle then it would help performance but there is very little indicators that that is so and i have never seen a satisfactory test of it in a real life test.

That's like stating "Well because there wasn't a bottleneck in x technology than no other new technology needs to be researched and developed." To think that PCI-Express 2.0 would offer no gains is complete rubbish.

perhaps i am being too harsh with you, perhaps you are not a fan boy but merely don't understand how things work and are just ove-enthusiastic about the advances that you misunderstand.

I have no idea why you personally feel the need to "bash" my replies, so to speak. Maybe you just don't understand what the word potential means? As for being over-enthused, not really. I like new technologies; in fact I think most techies do. If it's new and offers something, than try it out. That's all I'm saying here.

many have gotten confused about this subject for as long as i remember. Sorry if i seem patronising and i am sure someone far more knowledable will shoot me down in flames but do not confuse component interconnects with components internal speed.

What's so confusing about having double the transfer rate? It's rather straight forward...16GB per second > 8GB per second. It doesn't get any more clear than that.

 

[systemlord]

Wait a minute here, we haven't seen DX10 performance yet from the 8800GT 512MB.

 

[Hatman]

16>8 doesnt always mean in performance 16>8. It usually means 16=8.

In this case anyway. PCI-E2 is nothing but hyped, not going to magically double your FPS or anything.

Youd be lucky to get a 1% boost.

 

[justinmcg67]

16>8 doesnt always mean in performance 16>8. It usually means 16=8.

In this case anyway. PCI-E2 is nothing but hyped, not going to magically double your FPS or anything.

Youd be lucky to get a 1% boost.

Well of course it won't double performance. It's just something to look at and see how much potential (which is the word I've been basing...EVERYTHING off of... ) the new 8800GT has. If it does this well with current gen hardware, imagine what it'd be like with next gen? That's what I've been trying to say...

 

[aadamszc]

Wait a minute here, we haven't seen DX10 performance yet from the 8800GT 512MB.

The Inquirer did a whole article on the 8800 GT 512MB and DX10.

 

[SinisterBeing]

After reading this article on the 8800GT, I was wondering if I should get this card or the GTS 640Mb still? as I planned to build a computer around late november early december. if anybody could give me some input would be great

 

[Kamrooz]

Justin: There would be no difference in performance if it was running on a PCI-E 2.0 interface. Even with Penryn and high speed DDR3 memory...The performance would improve obviously..But it would be due to the newer processor and faster ram. Not the PCI-E 2.0 interface. you would get the same performance popping that new processor, ram, and 8800 gt on a PCI-E 1.1 board.

Went back and read most the posts I skipped....Regarding PCI-E 2.0

There will be no difference what so ever placing a 8800 GT in a PCi-E 2.0 compatible board. You will see likely the same exact performance. The advantage of PCI-E 2.0 which most of us know, but I'll state for those who don't, is the doubling in bandwidth and watts supplied from the slot. PCI-E 1.1 has 2.5 GT (Gigatransfer, 2.5 GT = 8 gb) of bandwidth with 75 watts of power running through the slot. With PCI-E 2.0, bandwidth has been doubled to 5 GT (16gb) with a 150 watt rating. Therefore eliminating the need to add a power connector for certain cards.

In terms of performance...There will be no difference ATM. The sole reason for PCI-E 2.0 is obviously for future use. Once cards can exceed the 2.5 gt barrier it will be needed. ATM it's more a matter of adopting the specification to current technology to prepare to break that 2.5 gt limit. There are currently no graphics cards capable of surpassing the 2.5 gt barrier. So therefore you won't see any difference. Just cause the bandwidth has been doubled from 2.5 to 5 gt..Doesn't mean you'll get a performance boost. It's up to the actual hardware being capable to output that much bandwidth....which current graphics cards can not do. Therefore, It's a false statement to think you'll obtain a performance boost from going to PCI-E 2.0 from 1.1...Just cause you have the ability to transfer more bandwidth means nothing if the cards we have aren't capable yet to do so.

As I stated before, it's just adopting the technology to help when the barrier is met. This way, we won't have to dish out more money in order to get a motherboard to support these new cards when they are released. Having a faster processor, faster ddr3 modules...It doesn't do anything for the bandwidth transfer via the PCI-E 1.1/2.0 spec. (It only does if your processor is bottlenecking your system. You obviously need a decent processor).

No rig atm will benefit from PCI-E 2.0....The only way I can see a benefit is in terms of power since you can eliminate the molex connector on certain cards for PCI-E 2.0 spec. So overalll, Just cause your board has the ability to transfer 16 GB via the PCI-E 2.0 slots compared to PCI-E 1.1's 8 gb...Means nothing if the hardware isn't capable of utilizing that extra bandwidth....Current graphisc cards can't break the PCI-E 1.1 barrier...But I expect that to change within the next 2 years....hopefully with the new high ends...But we'll have to wait and see.