Question New PC died after 4 weeks

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Hi all,

So I previously made a post in the GPU sub-forum trying to get some help with my dead new-build PC. The thread is linked here: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/desperately-need-help-with-new-pc-thats-died.3612804/

The PC would crash and instantly reboot itself every few days. I originally thought this was a CPU overheating error but I bought a new fan and still experienced the crashes every few days. On Thursday of last week the PC crashed, turn on, crashed, turn on, and got stuck in a boot loop. From then onwards I wasn't able to get past the motherboard loading screen (B450 Tomahawk Max Arsenal Gaming logo).

After troubleshooting for the last 4 days, doing loads of different things (more comprehensive explanation in the linked thread), after some advice from a user on here I removed my HDD. Removing the HDD has allowed me to boot into my desktop and bypass the boot loop. For the first time in 5 days I could actually get to my desktop.

After trying to boot up so many times, my GPU was very hot to touch. It's fans spun on boot-up, then stopped when I was idle on my desktop despite the GPU feeling very hot to touch on the plastic (Gigabyte 5700 XT). After trying to run CPU-Z to see if everything was up and running, the PC yet again crashed. It booted straight back into windows and allowed me to get into the desktop again. After sitting on the desktop, I tried running CPU-Z again and it worked for a few seconds before I shut it down out of caution.

I then booted down the PC in fear of the GPU overheating.

Can anyone advise what the issue could be? I'm worried it could be a MOBO issue that's causing the MOBO to short circuit or something. I've tried moving RAM slots, 1 stick, 2 sticks, unplugging all PCI-e cables, etc etc (more comprehensive explanation of what I tried in linked thread)

Known errors during build:

(bare in mind the PC worked, playing high graphics games such as GTA on max settings, only crashing 1 time whilst playing. It crashed every 2-3 days during all kinds of strain from games to google)

• Potential scratches to back of MOBO when trying to align with I/O shield.
• Tiny bit of thermal paste (wiped off with a cloth) on the MOBO when fitting new fan
• MSI drivers installed on a Gigabyte GPU (accident)
• Potentially plugged keyboard into BIOS Flash USB slot (though I don't think this matters)

Any help would be massively appreciated. I can't tell if it's the CPU failing, the MOBO is failing, the Power supply could not be providing enough power, the GPU could be faulty, the GPU drivers could be faulty etc...
I don't have any extra parts to swap out and test, and I'm running a 3600 CPU so don't have integrated graphics.
I tried calling a local PC specialist who said he couldn't diagnose the issue over the phone, but taking it into his shop could cost hundreds in hourly rates to fix.

Again, I would be eternally grateful if anyone could help.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

I understand, been there done that, it is just confusing for everyone though.

Yes, move the GPU to the lower slot just to try.

Ive seen numerous threads where people had issues with aftifactimg and blue screens with newer gpu's in the top slot with a ryzen gen 3 cpu - especially on MSI B450 max boards - it's a stab in the dark but worth trying

Awesome, I'll give it a go. Might be a stab in the dark but worth a try - you never know what might end up working!

Thanks a lot for letting me know this, I'll let you know if it works!

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Alright so from your other post it seems like you have Corsair Vengeance LPX memory. That's not very ideal to pair with a Ryzen and might be why your system is failing. Have you ran memtest86?

Another user said you unplugged one of your drives and still had a Windows boot corruption screen pop up which might indicate that Windows is installed across multiple drives, which is bad.

I understand, been there done that, it is just confusing for everyone though.

Yes, move the GPU to the lower slot just to try.

Ive seen numerous threads where people had issues with aftifactimg and blue screens with newer gpu's in the top slot with a ryzen gen 3 cpu - especially on MSI B450 max boards - it's a stab in the dark but worth trying

https://imgur.com/a/bVeyNBL

View: https://imgur.com/gallery/bVeyNBL


Does this mean my CPU is failing? I was getting this earlier today whilst trying to boot up, so I tried to reseat my CPU, reapply thermal paste, reseat my heat sink. Same lights showing up...

Edit: I checked my CPU for bent pins, everything looked fine, no issues. I applied a small amount of thermal paste, making sure both the CPU and heat sink were clean before reapplying.

 

[madmatt30]

Is it definitely the CPU one that's stayimg lit?

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Is it definitely the CPU one that's stayimg lit?

Yep.

It turns on, checks VGA, clears, checks BOOT, clears. PC loads up with windows loading circle, PC crashes, CPU light on and stays on for longer than VGA/BOOT light, PC dies and restarts, CPU light goes out (when PC completely dies), repeat.

I tried using a different, single DDR4 RAM stick from a friend, didn't work.

I tried using a different GPU, didn't work, exactly the same issues.

I've RMA'd my CPU and a new one is coming tomorrow. Fortunately Amazon are fantastic with replacements. After purchasing the CPU 35 days ago, Amazon have sent me a new CPU next-day delivery and given me 30 days to return the old CPU. Much better than the 45 WORKING DAY repair offered by CCLOnline for the graphics card...

Hopefully replacing the CPU tomorrow will fix it... if it doesn't the only remaining issues can be MOBO and PSU...both of which I ordered from CCLOnline... so I'm PRAYING the CPU fixes it so I don't have to go through CCLOnline's awful repair process...pls PC gods be with me

 

[beers]

If you continue to have issues after all of the troubleshooting steps, do you get the same behavior by yoinking one of your RAM sticks and then testing? If it's still exhibiting issues, swap them and run again on the other stick, but still one at a time.

The PC would crash and instantly reboot itself every few days. I originally thought this was a CPU overheating error

Usually heat related shutdowns (specific to values from the thermal sensor) are a hard down and won't reboot gracefully.

 

[madmatt30]

People keep buying the msi max boards for straight out compatibility with ryzen gen 3 cpu's but honestly in opinion there seem to be loads of issues with them with certain cou/gpu/ram configurations.

I know amazon are amazing on returns, I tend to buy virtually everything I can from them but sometimes certain items just aren't available.

Fingers crossed on the CPU mate though seriously.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

If you continue to have issues after all of the troubleshooting steps, do you get the same behavior by yoinking one of your RAM sticks and then testing? If it's still exhibiting issues, swap them and run again on the other stick, but still one at a time.

Usually heat related shutdowns (specific to values from the thermal sensor) are a hard down and won't reboot gracefully.

Unfortunately I've given this a go, didn't get any results.

Even tried a friends 4GB RAM just to see if it worked. Nothing.
Tried a friends old GPU too and also didn't work.

Seems like the only remaining options are CPU, MOBO or PSU. Reallllllllllly hoping it's the CPU as I bought it from Amazon and their returns are FAR better than CCLOnline (who I got MOBO/PSU from). Checked the CPU today and it had no bent pins, so I'm hoping the CPU is faulty and it's not the socket, I really don't want to have to return to CCLOnline

 

[Karadjgne]

Pull out all but 1 stick of ram. Disconnect everything plugged into the rear ports, disconnect all drives (pull out M.2), pull the gpu, case fans, front panel wiring, everything.

Only thing left will be 1 stick of ram in A2 slot, the cpu, cpu cooler and the 2x power leads from the psu. Then boot, use a flathead screwdriver to short the power-on pins. It should go through post and get stuck on VGA. Pull the plug/flip switch to shutdown. Add the gpu / monitor. Boot again. It should go all the way through and get stuck showing a no drive found error. Go eat lunch, take a nap. When you get back, that same screen should still be showing. Shutdown. Add keyboard. Shutdown. Add mouse. Shutdown. Plug in case fan. Shutdown. Start plugging everything in one piece at a time, saving the ssd for absolute last.

If you pop a failure to get to that no drive error, whatever you plugged in is suspect, repeat without that plugged in.

This is probably going to get time consuming, sorry for that, but many items use the usb/pcie buss and can cause hiccups, everything from the keyboard to external storage to headphones.

If everything works, then either the ssd is bad or something on the ssd is causing massive conflicts.

If nothing changes and you still get hung on the cpu light, chances are it's a bad mobo.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Pull out all but 1 stick of ram. Disconnect everything plugged into the rear ports, disconnect all drives (pull out M.2), pull the gpu, case fans, front panel wiring, everything.

Only thing left will be 1 stick of ram in A2 slot, the cpu, cpu cooler and the 2x power leads from the psu. Then boot, use a flathead screwdriver to short the power-on pins. It should go through post and get stuck on VGA. Pull the plug/flip switch to shutdown. Add the gpu / monitor. Boot again. It should go all the way through and get stuck showing a no drive found error. Go eat lunch, take a nap. When you get back, that same screen should still be showing. Shutdown. Add keyboard. Shutdown. Add mouse. Shutdown. Plug in case fan. Shutdown. Start plugging everything in one piece at a time, saving the ssd for absolute last.

If you pop a failure to get to that no drive error, whatever you plugged in is suspect, repeat without that plugged in.

This is probably going to get time consuming, sorry for that, but many items use the usb/pcie buss and can cause hiccups, everything from the keyboard to external storage to headphones.

If everything works, then either the ssd is bad or something on the ssd is causing massive conflicts.

If nothing changes and you still get hung on the cpu light, chances are it's a bad mobo.

Wow thanks for the comprehensive advice! I'll give this a go.

Tomorrow I'll try and replace the CPU with the new one Amazon has sent. If it doesn't work, I'll give this a try.

Thanks again for the long reply, I really appreciate you taking the time out to help me

 

[Karadjgne]

No worries. It's basically what's known as breadboarding, you start with the absolute minimum needed just to get the pc turned on. After that you go hunting for the error, you want it to show up. If you get the same error right off the bat, swap the ram sticks (still A2 cuz it's Ryzen), but you've narrowed it down to those 4 items. Mobo, cpu, ram, psu. It's a hardware issue because there is no software or drivers or anything else. Even just plugging in the front connectors can be the issue if there's a pinched wire shorting out.

If the longest the pc survived was 10 minutes, give it 20 between additions.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

People keep buying the msi max boards for straight out compatibility with ryzen gen 3 cpu's but honestly in opinion there seem to be loads of issues with them with certain cou/gpu/ram configurations.

I know amazon are amazing on returns, I tend to buy virtually everything I can from them but sometimes certain items just aren't available.

Fingers crossed on the CPU mate though seriously.

No worries. It's basically what's known as breadboarding, you start with the absolute minimum needed just to get the pc turned on. After that you go hunting for the error, you want it to show up. If you get the same error right off the bat, swap the ram sticks (still A2 cuz it's Ryzen), but you've narrowed it down to those 4 items. Mobo, cpu, ram, psu. It's a hardware issue because there is no software or drivers or anything else. Even just plugging in the front connectors can be the issue if there's a pinched wire shorting out.

If the longest the pc survived was 10 minutes, give it 20 between additions.

Just to update both of you...

So as I said yesterday, I tried to completely wipe the PC. I managed to get into Windows set up before it just died on me again...

I tried to reseat CPU and heat sink. Didn’t work.

I tried to reseat GPU, didn’t work. Tried to test a friends GPU, didn’t work.

tried to reseat RAM, didn’t work, tried to test a friends RAM, didn’t work.

So I just left it at that, ended the day.

Today a new CPU is coming so I thought I’d try and boot the PC up a few times to soften the thermal paste so I could get the CPU out easier.

And voila, the computer boots first time, into Windows, no boot loop, straight in no problems. No EZDEBUG lights, no crashes (yet).

I honestly can’t get my head around this. It doesn’t make sense that some days I’ll try and boot it multiple times and it will boot loop, but today I turn it on and boom it works instantly no issues.

Surely this only points to a MOBO short, or a failing PSU?
If the CPU was failing, wouldn’t it just always fail? Instead of working flawlessly some times and others refusing to boot?

It’s really getting a pain in the ass, it’s so hard to pinpoint the issue!

 

[Karadjgne]

Cpus have no wires or internal solder joints as such, but they do have circuitry traces that can get blown like a fuse. Basically they either work or don't. Never seen a cpu only work some of the time.

But a motherboard does have solder joints, and they can seperate from a trace under heat, or ball solder under chipsets that finally gets hot enough to seperate or restick.

It's far more likely to be a motherboard power delivery issue or even data issue than cpu, but even that's not guaranteed.

Could simply be a bad/seperated bios chip you pushed on by accident and is holding good for now.

Or a short in a USB cable that got moved so its now not backfeeding the cpu with voltage.

Which is why most will suggest breadboarding. As famously quoted "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the solution".

Hopefully it's fixed, by whatever accident of the cosmos, good luck though. 🍀

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

https://imgur.com/a/RwUd2hV

View: https://imgur.com/gallery/RwUd2hV

https://imgur.com/a/RwUd2hV

View: https://imgur.com/gallery/RwUd2hV


Here are my BIOS settings.

I’m running a B450 Tomahawk Max, with a Ryzen 3600 CPU.

The BIOS version is pretty outdated, 11 months outdated to be exact. Could this be causing the issue?

I’m scared to flash the BIOS because I know that if your PC crashes whilst flashing it, you’ll basically destroy the MOBO. With all the crashes/boot loops I’ve been having, it seems risky to try and flash the MOBO and risk it shutting down mid-update.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Cpus have no wires or internal solder joints as such, but they do have circuitry traces that can get blown like a fuse. Basically they either work or don't. Never seen a cpu only work some of the time.

But a motherboard does have solder joints, and they can seperate from a trace under heat, or ball solder under chipsets that finally gets hot enough to seperate or restick.

It's far more likely to be a motherboard power delivery issue or even data issue than cpu, but even that's not guaranteed.

Could simply be a bad/seperated bios chip you pushed on by accident and is holding good for now.

Or a short in a USB cable that got moved so its now not backfeeding the cpu with voltage.

Which is why most will suggest breadboarding. As famously quoted "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the solution".

Hopefully it's fixed, by whatever accident of the cosmos, good luck though. 🍀

Do you think this could be a BIOS issue? The MOBO I bought has a BIOS version from 11/07/19. I’m scared to flash the BIOS incase it crashes half way through and completely dies

 

[rocktalkrock]

Do you think this could be a BIOS issue? The MOBO I bought has a BIOS version from 11/07/19. I’m scared to flash the BIOS incase it crashes half way through and completely dies

Did you buy this motherboard retail or was it pulled from another computer?

 

[Karadjgne]

It's a MAX, I'd consider it new.

And absolutely agree, as long as there are power fluctuations, do not attempt to update the bios as that is a MAX board, so has a fully functional 3000 series bios to start with. Almost any bios update newer is about ram compatibility and voltage microcode changes for better streamlining usage temps, Msi would have sent recall notice if there was actual physical power issues that would prevent a normal bios update.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Did you buy this motherboard retail or was it pulled from another computer?

Bought directly from CCLOnline as new.

 

[madmatt30]

The bios is dated November 2011, not July.

The max boards were made to run gen 3 chips off the bat.
Shouldn't be a bios issue, may well have been the CPU, I've never had a faulty one in maybe 60 builds but anything is possible.

Run it a few days, see what happens.

Can't really kill a MAX board either, extra control chip on there solely for the usb flashback function.

It will always get you out of a bad flash situation.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Did you buy this motherboard retail or was it pulled from another computer?

The bios is dated November 2011, not July.

The max boards were made to run gen 3 chips off the bat.
Shouldn't be a bios issue, may well have been the CPU, I've never had a faulty one in maybe 60 builds but anything is possible.

Run it a few days, see what happens.

Can't really kill a MAX board either, extra control chip on there solely for the usb flashback function.

It will always get you out of a bad flash situation.

After uninstalling Windows, and reinstalling it, I've been able to get into the computer once more. I updated all my drivers etc.

I've tried downloading some games, went upstairs, came back down and the computer had restarted.

My event viewer shows a critical Kernel-Power 41 error:

-

System

- Provider [ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power [ Guid] {331c3b3a-2005-44c2-ac5e-77220c37d6b4}

EventID 41

Version 6

Level 1

Task 63

Opcode 0

Keywords 0x8000400000000002

- TimeCreated [ SystemTime] 2020-06-10T15:25:28.871217600Z

EventRecordID 1082

Correlation

- Execution [ ProcessID] 4 [ ThreadID] 8

Channel System

Computer DESKTOP-VSG23BO

- Security [ UserID] S-1-5-18

-

EventData

BugcheckCode

0

BugcheckParameter1

0x0

BugcheckParameter2

0x0

BugcheckParameter3

0x0

BugcheckParameter4

0x0

SleepInProgress

0

PowerButtonTimestamp

0

BootAppStatus

0

Checkpoint

41

ConnectedStandbyInProgress

false

SystemSleepTransitionsToOn

3

CsEntryScenarioInstanceId

0

BugcheckInfoFromEFI

false

CheckpointStatus

0

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

After uninstalling Windows, and reinstalling it, I've been able to get into the computer once more. I updated all my drivers etc.

I've tied downloading some games, went upstairs, came back down and the computer had restarted.

My event viewer shows:

-

System

- Provider [ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power [ Guid] {331c3b3a-2005-44c2-ac5e-77220c37d6b4}

EventID 41

Version 6

Level 1

Task 63

Opcode 0

Keywords 0x8000400000000002

- TimeCreated [ SystemTime] 2020-06-10T15:25:28.871217600Z

EventRecordID 1082

Correlation

- Execution [ ProcessID] 4 [ ThreadID] 8

Channel System

Computer DESKTOP-VSG23BO

- Security [ UserID] S-1-5-18

-

EventData

BugcheckCode

0

BugcheckParameter1

0x0

BugcheckParameter2

0x0

BugcheckParameter3

0x0

BugcheckParameter4

0x0

SleepInProgress

0

PowerButtonTimestamp

0

BootAppStatus

0

Checkpoint

41

ConnectedStandbyInProgress

false

SystemSleepTransitionsToOn

3

CsEntryScenarioInstanceId

0

BugcheckInfoFromEFI

false

CheckpointStatus

0

Followed by the following 'Information' line:

-

System

- Provider [ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power [ Guid] {331c3b3a-2005-44c2-ac5e-77220c37d6b4}

EventID 172

Version 0

Level 4

Task 203

Opcode 0

Keywords 0x8000000000000404

- TimeCreated [ SystemTime] 2020-06-10T15:25:28.872965600Z

EventRecordID 1083

Correlation

- Execution [ ProcessID] 4 [ ThreadID] 356

Channel System

Computer DESKTOP-VSG23BO

- Security [ UserID] S-1-5-18

-

EventData

State

2

Reason

6

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

I wondered if it may be beneficial to OVERVOLT my CPU? Maybe try increase my voltage by like 0.1V?

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Did you buy this motherboard retail or was it pulled from another computer?

It's a MAX, I'd consider it new.

And absolutely agree, as long as there are power fluctuations, do not attempt to update the bios as that is a MAX board, so has a fully functional 3000 series bios to start with. Almost any bios update newer is about ram compatibility and voltage microcode changes for better streamlining usage temps, Msi would have sent recall notice if there was actual physical power issues that would prevent a normal bios update.

The bios is dated November 2011, not July.

The max boards were made to run gen 3 chips off the bat.
Shouldn't be a bios issue, may well have been the CPU, I've never had a faulty one in maybe 60 builds but anything is possible.

Run it a few days, see what happens.

Can't really kill a MAX board either, extra control chip on there solely for the usb flashback function.

It will always get you out of a bad flash situation.

Update:

I completely rebuilt the PC from scratch. I put a new CPU into it, rescrewed the MOBO into the standoffs, plugged EVERYTHING back in. I changed the PCIe cable from the PSU to the spare one incase it wasn't delivering enough power.

I wiped the entire PC and downloaded EVERYTHING from scratch again.

I used the PC for about 10 hours yesterday, all gaming, no issues at all. Today, I turned it on, used it for about 1hr and boom. Crashed with Kernal Power error 41 (63) again...

At this point, what can I do? I tried calling another PC repair person who quoted £150 to try and fix it, but said the likelihood is he won't be able to fix it.

What else can I try at this point..?

Edit:

The 3 events preceding the Kernel Power shutdown in the event viewer are:

FilterManager
FilterManager
Ntfs (Microsoft-Windows-Ntfs)

Edit2:

In my BIOS, my CPU Core Voltage is on [AUTO] running at 1.482V. This seems very high? Can anyone confirm?

 

[rocktalkrock]

If you can try downloading and running a program called "Hard Disk Sentinel" to test the health of your drives.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Update:

I completely rebuilt the PC from scratch. I put a new CPU into it, rescrewed the MOBO into the standoffs, plugged EVERYTHING back in. I changed the PCIe cable from the PSU to the spare one incase it wasn't delivering enough power.

I wiped the entire PC and downloaded EVERYTHING from scratch again.

I used the PC for about 10 hours yesterday, all gaming, no issues at all. Today, I turned it on, used it for about 1hr and boom. Crashed with Kernal Power error 41 (63) again...

At this point, what can I do? I tried calling another PC repair person who quoted £150 to try and fix it, but said the likelihood is he won't be able to fix it.

What else can I try at this point..?

If you can try downloading and running a program called "Hard Disk Sentinel" to test the health of your drives.

It says 100%, perfect. No problems at all

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

If you can try downloading and running a program called "Hard Disk Sentinel" to test the health of your drives.

My CPU is running at 1.482V in the BIOS though. It's causing me to get like 60 degrees on the desktop when just downloading things.

In games it goes no higher than 75 degrees, however. Might it be worth undervolting the CPU? Or is this just going to cause more Kernel Power issues?