Question New PC died after 4 weeks

[TheRealMacDaddy]

Hi all,

So I previously made a post in the GPU sub-forum trying to get some help with my dead new-build PC. The thread is linked here: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/desperately-need-help-with-new-pc-thats-died.3612804/

The PC would crash and instantly reboot itself every few days. I originally thought this was a CPU overheating error but I bought a new fan and still experienced the crashes every few days. On Thursday of last week the PC crashed, turn on, crashed, turn on, and got stuck in a boot loop. From then onwards I wasn't able to get past the motherboard loading screen (B450 Tomahawk Max Arsenal Gaming logo).

After troubleshooting for the last 4 days, doing loads of different things (more comprehensive explanation in the linked thread), after some advice from a user on here I removed my HDD. Removing the HDD has allowed me to boot into my desktop and bypass the boot loop. For the first time in 5 days I could actually get to my desktop.

After trying to boot up so many times, my GPU was very hot to touch. It's fans spun on boot-up, then stopped when I was idle on my desktop despite the GPU feeling very hot to touch on the plastic (Gigabyte 5700 XT). After trying to run CPU-Z to see if everything was up and running, the PC yet again crashed. It booted straight back into windows and allowed me to get into the desktop again. After sitting on the desktop, I tried running CPU-Z again and it worked for a few seconds before I shut it down out of caution.

I then booted down the PC in fear of the GPU overheating.

Can anyone advise what the issue could be? I'm worried it could be a MOBO issue that's causing the MOBO to short circuit or something. I've tried moving RAM slots, 1 stick, 2 sticks, unplugging all PCI-e cables, etc etc (more comprehensive explanation of what I tried in linked thread)

Known errors during build:

(bare in mind the PC worked, playing high graphics games such as GTA on max settings, only crashing 1 time whilst playing. It crashed every 2-3 days during all kinds of strain from games to google)

• Potential scratches to back of MOBO when trying to align with I/O shield.
• Tiny bit of thermal paste (wiped off with a cloth) on the MOBO when fitting new fan
• MSI drivers installed on a Gigabyte GPU (accident)
• Potentially plugged keyboard into BIOS Flash USB slot (though I don't think this matters)

Any help would be massively appreciated. I can't tell if it's the CPU failing, the MOBO is failing, the Power supply could not be providing enough power, the GPU could be faulty, the GPU drivers could be faulty etc...
I don't have any extra parts to swap out and test, and I'm running a 3600 CPU so don't have integrated graphics.
I tried calling a local PC specialist who said he couldn't diagnose the issue over the phone, but taking it into his shop could cost hundreds in hourly rates to fix.

Again, I would be eternally grateful if anyone could help.

 

[rocktalkrock]

Have you tried running GPU-Z to check your graphics card temperatures?

 

[rocktalkrock]

Hi!

Thanks so much for replying - very much appreciated.

What temperature would be considered too high? I previously tried to launch CPU-Z and encountered a crash yesterday - is continuously trying to boot the PC for it to crash potentially damaging anything? Or is it my only method of troubleshooting?

Also - I don't actually have GPU-Z downloaded, only CPU-Z. If I can't get GPU-Z to download because of crashes, what's my next option?

I'll have a look ASAP and feed back the GPU temperature!

https://www.techradar.com/news/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-gets-hot-but-its-supposed-to

 

[rocktalkrock]

You can use DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) to remove the old drivers.
I don't think RAM should be causing your problems but you could try lowering your memory speed to 2667Mhz while you are troubleshooting these problems.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn8z39tiEL0

 

[rocktalkrock]

Hi again,

I tried lowering my DRAM frequency from AUTO to 2666Mhz. PC still fails to boot and gets stuck in a boot loop...

This is getting unbelievably draining - I've spent almost every day since last Thursday trying to fix this and I just can't get it to work!

Are you sure the CPU cooler is mounted properly on the CPU?

 

[rocktalkrock]

After starting to boot, I just got BSoD with error:

Win32 base.sys

This is just one of many different types of blue screens I seem to encounter, but it's the first time I've seen this specific one.

When you first put this build together did you do a clean install of Windows or just transfer the Windows boot drive from another PC?

 

[rocktalkrock]

I edited the above post with a bit of extra information.

Also - I used Windows Installation Media from a different PC on a USB, and installed it onto this PC. When I installed it, both an SSD and HDD were installed, and windows was installed onto the SSD.

I've now removed the HDD which (after removing it) allowed me to access my desktop a few times.

Now, after removing my keyboard and mouse, it again allowed me to boot into Windows again. I've plugged the keyboard back in and I'm in safe mode at the moment and it hasn't crashed (yet).

What are the best tests I can use from safe mode to help try and diagnose an issue?

I'm not sure what you can do in safe mode since i have rarely ever used it. That main purpose of safe mode is to prevent Windows from loading any unnecessary software that may be causing problems.

 

[rocktalkrock]

I rebooted into normal mode, used it for about 5 minutes (trying to download DDU), and it crashed again.

Turned off and back on, typed my password in, crashed. I honestly can't get my head around this

I can't understand why sometimes I can't even boot past the first windows spinning circle, and sometimes I can boot all the way into windows and use it for 5 minutes.

sigh

At this point i think you should remove the motherboard from the case. Perhaps there is a short somewhere in your build.

 

[rocktalkrock]

I've managed to get the PC back on, download DDU, and remove the old drivers. Before removing the motherboard, could you direct me to the correct place to download Gigabyte 5700 XT OC 8GB drivers please?

I think I previously installed them from the incorrect place. Could you please show me how to find the act correct drivers that I need for this specific GPU?

I'll remove the MOBO and CPU tomorrow and try and start fresh.

Would this: https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Graphics-Card/GV-R57XTGAMING-OC-8GD/support#support-dl-driver

Be the correct driver to install?

https://www.gigabyte.com/ca/Graphics-Card/GV-R57XTGAMING-OC-8GD/support#support-dl-driver

Make sure the chipset drivers for your motherboard are up to date as well.

 

[madmatt30]

You're confusing things by making more than 1 post on the forums.

I replied to another one and then this one pops up.

Humour me here though, switch the GPU to the other full length slot, you'll have to reinstall drivers again.

Just I'm seeing issues with ryzen gen 3 chips on the tomahawk B450 boards and most are down to pci express problems on later bios revisions.

 

[madmatt30]

So just try moving my GPU from it's current slot, to the slot below it, and replug everything in, and see if that works?

Sorry for confusing you with the multiple posts, I'm just in very dire need of some help. No ill intentions, just really in need of help.

I understand, been there done that, it is just confusing for everyone though.

Yes, move the GPU to the lower slot just to try.

Ive seen numerous threads where people had issues with aftifactimg and blue screens with newer gpu's in the top slot with a ryzen gen 3 cpu - especially on MSI B450 max boards - it's a stab in the dark but worth trying

 

[madmatt30]

Is it definitely the CPU one that's stayimg lit?

 

[beers]

If you continue to have issues after all of the troubleshooting steps, do you get the same behavior by yoinking one of your RAM sticks and then testing? If it's still exhibiting issues, swap them and run again on the other stick, but still one at a time.

The PC would crash and instantly reboot itself every few days. I originally thought this was a CPU overheating error

Usually heat related shutdowns (specific to values from the thermal sensor) are a hard down and won't reboot gracefully.

 

[madmatt30]

People keep buying the msi max boards for straight out compatibility with ryzen gen 3 cpu's but honestly in opinion there seem to be loads of issues with them with certain cou/gpu/ram configurations.

I know amazon are amazing on returns, I tend to buy virtually everything I can from them but sometimes certain items just aren't available.

Fingers crossed on the CPU mate though seriously.

 

[Karadjgne]

Pull out all but 1 stick of ram. Disconnect everything plugged into the rear ports, disconnect all drives (pull out M.2), pull the gpu, case fans, front panel wiring, everything.

Only thing left will be 1 stick of ram in A2 slot, the cpu, cpu cooler and the 2x power leads from the psu. Then boot, use a flathead screwdriver to short the power-on pins. It should go through post and get stuck on VGA. Pull the plug/flip switch to shutdown. Add the gpu / monitor. Boot again. It should go all the way through and get stuck showing a no drive found error. Go eat lunch, take a nap. When you get back, that same screen should still be showing. Shutdown. Add keyboard. Shutdown. Add mouse. Shutdown. Plug in case fan. Shutdown. Start plugging everything in one piece at a time, saving the ssd for absolute last.

If you pop a failure to get to that no drive error, whatever you plugged in is suspect, repeat without that plugged in.

This is probably going to get time consuming, sorry for that, but many items use the usb/pcie buss and can cause hiccups, everything from the keyboard to external storage to headphones.

If everything works, then either the ssd is bad or something on the ssd is causing massive conflicts.

If nothing changes and you still get hung on the cpu light, chances are it's a bad mobo.

 

[Karadjgne]

Cpus have no wires or internal solder joints as such, but they do have circuitry traces that can get blown like a fuse. Basically they either work or don't. Never seen a cpu only work some of the time.

But a motherboard does have solder joints, and they can seperate from a trace under heat, or ball solder under chipsets that finally gets hot enough to seperate or restick.

It's far more likely to be a motherboard power delivery issue or even data issue than cpu, but even that's not guaranteed.

Could simply be a bad/seperated bios chip you pushed on by accident and is holding good for now.

Or a short in a USB cable that got moved so its now not backfeeding the cpu with voltage.

Which is why most will suggest breadboarding. As famously quoted "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the solution".

Hopefully it's fixed, by whatever accident of the cosmos, good luck though. 🍀

 

[rocktalkrock]

Do you think this could be a BIOS issue? The MOBO I bought has a BIOS version from 11/07/19. I’m scared to flash the BIOS incase it crashes half way through and completely dies

Did you buy this motherboard retail or was it pulled from another computer?

 

[Karadjgne]

It's a MAX, I'd consider it new.

And absolutely agree, as long as there are power fluctuations, do not attempt to update the bios as that is a MAX board, so has a fully functional 3000 series bios to start with. Almost any bios update newer is about ram compatibility and voltage microcode changes for better streamlining usage temps, Msi would have sent recall notice if there was actual physical power issues that would prevent a normal bios update.

 

[madmatt30]

The bios is dated November 2011, not July.

The max boards were made to run gen 3 chips off the bat.
Shouldn't be a bios issue, may well have been the CPU, I've never had a faulty one in maybe 60 builds but anything is possible.

Run it a few days, see what happens.

Can't really kill a MAX board either, extra control chip on there solely for the usb flashback function.

It will always get you out of a bad flash situation.

 

[rocktalkrock]

If you can try downloading and running a program called "Hard Disk Sentinel" to test the health of your drives.

 

[rocktalkrock]

My CPU is running at 1.482V in the BIOS though. It's causing me to get like 60 degrees on the desktop when just downloading things.

In games it goes no higher than 75 degrees, however. Might it be worth undervolting the CPU? Or is this just going to cause more Kernel Power issues?

75 degrees is not running hot. The maximum safe temperature for the 3600 is 95°C, that is listed on the AMD product page.

I don't think undervolting the CPU would cause any problems, but i don't think it's necessary. Like the temperatures, 1.482 volts in the BIOS is also not high. The voltage varies depending on how many cores are running. In the BIOS only 1 core is running so the voltage goes up. In Windows as more cores are being used the voltage will go down accordingly, based on the number of active cores.

 

[rocktalkrock]

Thanks! Unfortunately I tried these and it hadn’t made a difference. I’ve been using these settings for a couple days since rebuilding the PC and it still crashed today

Have you tried all the other tips listed in the 2nd link?

 

[madmatt30]

Update:

After rebuilding the computer last Friday, it ran fine all of Friday/Saturday. Sunday it crashed again when browsing the internet, but not during games.

Throughout this week (Sunday - Friday) I've been gaming for long sessions with no issues whatsoever. Not one crash.

Today, I stopped gaming and did some browsing online and yet again, the PC crashed. Kernel Power 41 error again.

It works completely fine when gaming, but dies in minutes when not gaming/browsing the web. Does this help anyone understand what the issue could be?

Thanks in advance!

I've not been following properly mate as I'm back at work this week and it's all gone a bit mental.

All I can think is its downclocking/undervolting too much at low loads.

Tried forcing the high performance power plan and setting it so that the processor is running max clocks even at low loads?

It'll push slightly higher temps at low load but nothing extreme.

 

[madmatt30]

While it seems bizarre that is absolutely normal voltage wise for ryzen cpu's.

Did I not read a while back you were waiting for a replacement cpu from amazon??

 

[rocktalkrock]

I was. I put the new CPU in and rebuilt the PC last Friday but it hasn’t seemed to fix the problem.

Nowadays the PC doesn’t boot loop anymore, and seems to work completely fine when gaming. For a whole week I’ve had 0 crashes when gaming, and crashed 2x when browsing the internet (after the first crash when browsing I have purposefully been avoiding using the PC when not gaming as I thought it was crashing when not gaming).

Just as a test, try using a different web browser to see if that makes any difference.

 

[rocktalkrock]

Updated chipset and LAN drivers for your motherboard were just released on June 16th. Have you updated these latest drivers?