New Surface 3 Tablet Abandons Windows RT, Rocks Intel Cherry Trail Chip

[RedJaron]

That article you're citing is on a Canadian site and is mixing both US and Canadian pricing. The article for this thread was quite clear in the US pricing: $499 for the base model ( 64GB storage, 2GB RAM, ) and $599 for upgraded model ( 128GB/4GB. ) Did you even read it before commenting? I'm not sure why you are responding to that article in this thread.

You still haven't answered my question as to why you consider the Atom slow. Slow compared to what?

And on the W700, it was in development the same time as the SP1, so I don't know how you consider that to be "long before" the SP1 came out. Aside from the Iconia, how many good Windows tablets came before the SP1? Now compare that to how many good Windows tablets have come after the SP1.

 

[stevejnb]

Redjaron,

Seeing as I'm in Canada, I didn't see the need to respond to US pricing when it really doesn't affect me?

True, I didn't answer directly, but I did reference it with my comment concerning Ultrabook hardware. You ask "Slow compared to what?" - well, in Canada I can get a variety of i5 ultrabooks for around $700... Which is less than the price of a Surface 3 with the keyboard cover, if the article I'm referencing is accurate. So, slow compared to that. Very slow.

It was in development around the same time, yes, but roughly 5 months - that's a bloody long time in modern technology terms. I got my Iconia W700 in October of 2012, and we couldn't get my wife's Surface before February 2013. The issue isn't "how many miserable Windows tablets came before it?" but rather "The Surface was the model for what a Windows tablet could be"... Well, the Iconia W700 was an *excellent* model for that - roughly 5 months before. If that's the role you suggest the Surface filled, it's only because people ignored an already excellent Windows tablet out there. Were there others? I honestly can't recall - the Iconia grabbed my eye and I never looked back.

 

[canadianvice]

Since I have nowhere better to put it, I figured out why there's no Windows 9.
It's a massive joke.

Because 7 8 9.

 

[RedJaron]

Seeing as I'm in Canada, I didn't see the need to respond to US pricing when it really doesn't affect me?

Ok, but you can't expect someone to instantly know every forum member's location. Again, this article was specifically talking US pricing, so if you're going to talk about something else, it's best to explicitly start off your comments that way,

well, in Canada I can get a variety of i5 ultrabooks for around $700... Which is less than the price of a Surface 3 with the keyboard cover, if the article I'm referencing is accurate. So, slow compared to that. Very slow.

What i5 ultrabooks can you get up there for $700 CAD? That's about $550 USD, and I'd look to buy something like that right now. Seriously.

The issue isn't "how many miserable Windows tablets came before it?" but rather "The Surface was the model for what a Windows tablet could be"... Well, the Iconia W700 was an *excellent* model for that - roughly 5 months before. If that's the role you suggest the Surface filled, it's only because people ignored an already excellent Windows tablet out there. Were there others? I honestly can't recall - the Iconia grabbed my eye and I never looked back.

You can call five months whatever you want, but you can't say that MS made the Surface in reaction to the W700. They were both being developed at the same time. Is it so hard to believe that both MS and Acer had the same idea of making a quality Windows tablet by not skimping on materials or components? Have you considered that the W700 wasn't actively ignored as just not marketed as well as the Surface so that relatively few people heard of it? To use a TVTRopes reference, this is the difference between the Ur Example, the Trope Maker, and the Trope Codifier. The Mac surely wasn't the first computer with a GUI OS and Doom wasn't the first first-person action game. However they were some of the most popular early examples of those types of products, and so others subsequent products emulated them. And just because Acer had a great product, it doesn't mean MS didn't or couldn't make the first Surface to say, "Ok all you other people who are doing it wrong, this is how you do it."

And to answer your earlier question, Acer's current Switch 11 is probably the closest thing to a modern W700. 11" 1080p IPS display, i3, 4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, 2-in-1 detachable. I helped my sister get one at Christmas for $500 USD, but that was on sale. They're usually around $650. This is a good competitor to the Surface 3 as it has more horsepower, but it is a plastic chassis which may turn off some folks.

 

[Krisna Murti]

I simply can't imagine why I would want or need a $630 (499 + 130 keyboard) Windows machine? Now that Office or Google Docs are online and basically free, the days of needing a $500+ laptop seem crazy.

Windows laptop have a niche and its more of an enterprise thing at this point. I have to imagine the future of the consumer market for Windows is basically going into the grave unless you are a die hard PC gamer.

Well now you also can find windows laptop for less than 200$: http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/28/hp-stream-11-review/ So why settle for a chromebook when you can buy 200$ windows laptop? It can do a whole lot more than chromebook obviously.

 

[stevejnb]

Ok, but you can't expect someone to instantly know every forum member's location. Again, this article was specifically talking US pricing, so if you're going to talk about something else, it's best to explicitly start off your comments that way,

Fair enough.

What i5 ultrabooks can you get up there for $700 CAD? That's about $550 USD, and I'd look to buy something like that right now. Seriously.,

Curious, have you ever actually looked for an Ultrabook in the $700 price range before? Literally, I just looked up "Ultrabook" on amazon.ca and found this on the very first page:

http://www.amazon.ca/HP-Envy-4-1030us-14-Inch-Ultrabook/dp/B0085RZPP0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1427898732&sr=8-5&keywords=ultrabook

Then I looked in the Ultrabook section of tigerdirect.ca and this was staring right at me:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8528631&CatId=927

Watching tech sales, I see $700'ish ultrabooks with i5's show up all the time in Canada where things tend to cost more, so... If this is something you are interested in, you don't really have to look all that hard. Heck, the second one I listed there costs less than $20 more than the Surface 3 without the keyboard. As I said before, MS is getting into the Apple Premium type pricing with this $630 pricing.

You can call five months whatever you want, but you can't say that MS made the Surface in reaction to the W700. They were both being developed at the same time. Is it so hard to believe that both MS and Acer had the same idea of making a quality Windows tablet by not skimping on materials or components? Have you considered that the W700 wasn't actively ignored as just not marketed as well as the Surface so that relatively few people heard of it? To use a TVTRopes reference, this is the difference between the Ur Example, the Trope Maker, and the Trope Codifier. The Mac surely wasn't the first computer with a GUI OS and Doom wasn't the first first-person action game. However they were some of the most popular early examples of those types of products, and so others subsequent products emulated them. And just because Acer had a great product, it doesn't mean MS didn't or couldn't make the first Surface to say, "Ok all you other people who are doing it wrong, this is how you do it.",

Well, then I'll continue to call it what it is - a bloody long time in hardware dev cycles. People expect new phones to roll off the assembly line every six months, graphic card updates about that fast, CPU updates in a nearly constant stream - are you seriously going to try and downplay the Surface Pro 1 being roughly five months behind a competitive, and arguably even superior, Windows tablet package? Doesn't matter now, but it does matter a *lot* if the Surface was supposed to be a template to show people how to build Windows tablets. The claim is a bit silly if someone already had a viable Surface Pro competitor out five months before the Pro.

And, the irony of the whole "show people how to make a windows tablet" thing is that the Surface Pro 1 really didn't do that. Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but there's a reason why MS lost $900 million on the first round of Surfaces. It wasn't because they were bad - frankly, I think the Surface Pro 1 is still a great piece of hardware - but they were not successes like the other examples you gave (Doom, Apple computer GUI's, etc). Not only was the Surface Pro 1 not the first out the door as an awesome Windows tablet - it was also only a middling success. It wasn't some iPhone which showed people how to make a smartphone, even though it wasn't the first out the door - the Pro 1 was just pretty good and a commercial meh. Now, MS sticking with the project has lead to great things and definite success, but making the Surface Pro 1 out to be for Windows tablets what Doom was to FPS's is... Questionable at best.

And to answer your earlier question, Acer's current Switch 11 is probably the closest thing to a modern W700. 11" 1080p IPS display, i3, 4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, 2-in-1 detachable. I helped my sister get one at Christmas for $500 USD, but that was on sale. They're usually around $650. This is a good competitor to the Surface 3 as it has more horsepower, but it is a plastic chassis which may turn off some folks.

Well, if someone really values the very competitive weight of the Surface 3 and the longer battery life and the form factor - the kickstand really is the best thing to happen to the tablet form factor since the touchscreen- then it's worth the premium for them. I just find the hardware for the price very Apple-esque, ESPECIALLY in Canada. Basic Surface models should be getting cheaper, not more expensive...

 

[littleleo]

The schools in the district around my house are all going to chrome books so all those kids are learning to use chrome O/S and the Google office programs. When time comes for them to buy there own what do you think they will buy? The chrome units use ARM CPUs, so no Intel & no MS should they be worried? And out of the total mobile market how many use Intel chips and MS O/S? MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users. If Google can rework the code to eliminate that MS would be really hurting.

 

[canadianvice]

The schools in the district around my house are all going to chrome books so all those kids are learning to use chrome O/S and the Google office programs. When time comes for them to buy there own what do you think they will buy? The chrome units use ARM CPUs, so no Intel & no MS should they be worried? And out of the total mobile market how many use Intel chips and MS O/S? MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users. If Google can rework the code to eliminate that MS would be really hurting.

MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users? wut?

 

[Kadathan]

@littleleo

Chromebooks work so well in schools because students don't actually do anything productive with tech, so cheap tech is ideal. When everything you're doing is achievable with a browser(websearch, mediocre word processing), why would a school spend cash on a lab of $600 machines when they can get away with $250 machines that do that job better?
But make no mistake - When you get into the real world, and have to actually do things, a chromebook is almost never the answer. They're lightweight and convenient, but very restrictive. In fact, that extends to the entire line of ARM products. They cannot take over because they cannot do the tasks that most real computers are actually used for. Niche convenience product.

 

[RedJaron]

http://www.amazon.ca/HP-Envy-4-1030us-14-Inch-Ultrabook/dp/B0085RZPP0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1427898732&sr=8-5&keywords=ultrabook

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8528631&CatId=927

Yeah, because who wants a brand new 2-in-1 when you can get a two generation old, refurbished laptop for the same money, right? I never said you can't find nice deals on EoL tech that's getting cleared out ( that Toshiba isn't too bad, if a bit old. ) Why don't you try to compare this against current competing models, particularly with a FHD touchscreen? I can find a few decent i3 models around $550, and those are compelling, but it's not until you get over $650 that you start seeing i5 models like you're talking about ( and they won't be as small as the Surface 3. )

And, the irony of the whole "show people how to make a windows tablet" thing is that the Surface Pro 1 really didn't do that. Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but there's a reason why MS lost $900 million on the first round of Surfaces.

Yeah, that reason was the Surface RT. The Surface Pro sold out. Be honest.

It wasn't because they were bad - frankly, I think the Surface Pro 1 is still a great piece of hardware - but they were not successes like the other examples you gave (Doom, Apple computer GUI's, etc). Not only was the Surface Pro 1 not the first out the door as an awesome Windows tablet - it was also only a middling success.

So you consider critical praise and constant demand such that the Pros were consistently sold out to only be a "middling success." Got it.

Basic Surface models should be getting cheaper, not more expensive...

The basic Surface just got a huge boost in performance ( x86 CPU and RAM, ) looks ( higher res screen, ) and usability ( full Win 8.1, ) and you expect it to be cheaper than the original?

 

[stevejnb]

Yeah, because who wants a brand new 2-in-1 when you can get a two generation old, refurbished laptop for the same money, right? I never said you can't find nice deals on EoL tech that's getting cleared out ( that Toshiba isn't too bad, if a bit old. ) Why don't you try to compare this against current competing models, particularly with a FHD touchscreen? I can find a few decent i3 models around $550, and those are compelling, but it's not until you get over $650 that you start seeing i5 models like you're talking about ( and they won't be as small as the Surface 3.

Wait, refurbished? One of those ones is, yes, but the second one isn't - and it's the cheaper one. Perhaps you should work on your honesty, or reading comprehension? One of the two, but one of them is quite deficient.

Actually, the metric in question was speed, and that i5 - very similar to what is in my Iconia W700 - is going to blow the new Surface 3 out of the water for performance. You wanted an i5 Ultrabook for under $700? There it is. It'll cost less than a Surface 3, has more storage, more RAM (than the $639 model of Surface), a far beefier processor, and comes with the keyboard. Be honest yourself - with previous gen tablets ATOM tablets like the T100 coming in at $350 WITH a keyboard, the $639 pricing for the new Surface 3 pretty much comes off as brand name tax. This is MS's very own Apple mark up at work and little else.

Yeah, that reason was the Surface RT. The Surface Pro sold out. Be honest.

Are you kidding me? I spent months looking at Surface Pros for my wife from virtually every vendor under the sun trying to get a deal ended up getting her one for Christmas (bought October 2013 from a Best Buy in Calgary). You know why I finally made the leap? Because they were axing prices. You know what's funny about that? I got her Surface Pro 1 for under $600 - because they were ditching excess stock they couldn't get rid of at regular prices. The REALLY funny thing is, I kept checking up on that Best Buy's stock after that and they had 128gb models left for two weeks after that, with about $300 knocked off its regular price. THIS is that product you're telling me was constantly sold out?

Outside of the very initial shipment of Surface Pro's, I never saw any evidence of it selling out. Be honest yourself... The thing sold respectably, but it wasn't some world breaking seller. If you want me to believe that, show proof of the Surface Pro being constantly off shelves after its initial rush.

So you consider critical praise and constant demand such that the Pros were consistently sold out to only be a "middling success." Got it.

Actually, it got *plenty* of critical reviews as well. Didn't work well on your lap, expensive extra keyboard, poor heat management, terrible battery life... Something tells me you're the type who just sort of glosses over those types of reviews though...

And I don't know how else you would describe it. It was certainly a success - but anything more than middling? Not really. It took three generations for it to really pick up and become a "must have" type item.

The basic Surface just got a huge boost in performance ( x86 CPU and RAM, ) looks ( higher res screen, ) and usability ( full Win 8.1, ) and you expect it to be cheaper than the original?

Once again, if products like the T100 are any indicator, HELL YES. Last gen ATOM tablets with keyboards were going for $350... Now we're to believe that they warrant a $639 price tag BEFORE the added $130 for the keyboard? Please - this is the type of rampant hardware cost inflation that drives me away from products I would otherwise like. May be good for snotty college kids who moms are paying for their toys, or business types who have very specific needs, but I don't need that kind of crap mark up. Or, are you convinced that the magnesium chassis and the kickstand is what's jacking the price up that much?

Oh, and seeing as you mentioned RAM in there, I hate to break it to you, but that $500 USD/$639 CDN Surface is still kicking around at 2gb of RAM. Sadly, you can get phones with more RAM than that - and for less money than this tablet costs.

At this point, you are defending MS charging a premium price for you having the privilege of owning a Surface - in other words, basically what Apple does. Now of course, this is expected, if they can get away with it. Personally, I won't applaud them for it... And frankly, you doing so and defending them charging a Surface tax on the hardware makes you come off as a rather raging MS fanb...

I'll leave it at that.

 

[JPNpower]

If we remember that the Surface is a template... I guess MS is satisfied with the low end products that are running windows now, and want to tell the makers how to do midrange right.

 

[RedJaron]

Perhaps you should work on your honesty, or reading comprehension?

Perhaps you should dispense with your petty insults and work on your own. I specifically said the Toshiba model wasn't too bad.

Actually, the metric in question was speed, and that i5 - very similar to what is in my Iconia W700 - is going to blow the new Surface 3 out of the water for performance.

So a device that originally retailed for $1000+ can outperform one that originally retailed for $500? Blow me down . . .

Be honest yourself - with previous gen tablets ATOM tablets like the T100 coming in at $350 WITH a keyboard, the $639 pricing for the new Surface 3 pretty much comes off as brand name tax.

Key term there is "previous generation." I've already addressed this above.

Are you kidding me? I spent months looking at Surface Pros for my wife from virtually every vendor under the sun trying to get a deal ended up getting her one for Christmas (bought October 2013 from a Best Buy in Calgary).

I can only talk about MS' online store and the stores local to me. Around here it sold pretty well.

The thing sold respectably, but it wasn't some world breaking seller.

I never claimed that it was, only that it was more than "middlingly" successful.

Actually, it got *plenty* of critical reviews as well. Didn't work well on your lap, expensive extra keyboard, poor heat management, terrible battery life...

I'm well aware of those critiques against it, and I agree with some of them. Nowhere did I say it was a perfect product.

Something tells me you're the type who just sort of glosses over those types of reviews though...

Something tells me you're the type that makes baseless accusations and assumptions.

It took three generations for it to really pick up and become a "must have" type item.

So about the same as Apple's "must have" items? That's not too bad.

Once again, if products like the T100 are any indicator, HELL YES. Last gen ATOM tablets with keyboards were going for $350 ... Or, are you convinced that the magnesium chassis and the kickstand is what's jacking the price up that much?

Chassis alone? No. The chassis, higher res display, better wireless, faster RAM, and better CPU? Possibly.

At this point, you are defending MS charging a premium price for you having the privilege of owning a Surface

If you would bother reading everything I've written, I have said that I think this should be priced about $450 USD alone, or $550 with keyboard.

But what I'm actually defending is a decent product that people want to irrationally attack by making faulty comparisons. Yes, you can get a Windows Atom tablet for $300 or less. That alone doesn't mean anything. If ultimate performance / price is your concern, then why ever get a laptop or mobile device? Why not spend that $350 - $500 on a desktop that has more than twice the performance of a tablet or notebook?

And frankly, you doing so and defending them charging a Surface tax on the hardware makes you come off as a rather raging MS fanb...

Like I said, you can hurl your insults if you want. I'm not the one they make look stupid.

I've tried having a decent discussion and debate with you, but that's impossible when you continually move the goalposts and throw out strawmen arguments and ridiculous assumptions and comparisons.

 

[alextheblue]

As I've said numerous times: Chromebooks have a strong market potential. If you want the basics and you want them to work well, either buy a mac or buy a chromebook.

I think the choice is obvious given the price differential - and more software is becoming cloud based as well, so it's less of a loss that way too.

What price differential? Why are people bringing up Chromebooks? There's no Chromebook that competes with this TABLET. Compare Chromebooks to HP Stream laptops instead and watch the price difference vanish. Unbelieveable.

"Why buy that car? You can get this scooter cheaper! It gets you from A to B, clearly there's no reason to buy a car."

 

[canadianvice]

As I've said numerous times: Chromebooks have a strong market potential. If you want the basics and you want them to work well, either buy a mac or buy a chromebook.

I think the choice is obvious given the price differential - and more software is becoming cloud based as well, so it's less of a loss that way too.

What price differential? Why are people bringing up Chromebooks? There's no Chromebook that competes with this TABLET. Compare Chromebooks to HP Stream laptops instead and watch the price difference vanish. Unbelieveable.

"Why buy that car? You can get this scooter cheaper! It gets you from A to B, clearly there's no reason to buy a car."

Someone else brought up chromebooks, not me.
Regardless, in the context of an easy system that covers the basics for most people, they're sort of relevant.

Most people don't want a car, if you look at it in relative terms. They're terrified enough of the scooter.

 

[Rapajez]

Really? I think you're ignoring that this has a 1920 x 1280 display. Please show me another tablet that sports the exact same specs as the Surface 3 and only costs $300. Closest I can find is Asus' upcoming Chi for $450. But the Chi doesn't have AC wireless, an LTE option, or a full-size USB port and it has an older CPU. The base Surface 3 alone is easily worth $400 - $450. The $500 MSRP is a little steep. If they could include the type cover for $575 or less, it would be incredible.

How about the NVIDIA Shield Tablet: 1920 x 1200, 2 GB RAM, Quad-Core Tegra K1, GameStream wireless from your PC, and get the quality level of a desktop, or stream over a half-decent internet connection with their GRID Cloud-Based service and get console-quality graphics. $299.

That thing doesn't get enough credit.

 

[RedJaron]

How about the NVIDIA Shield Tablet: 1920 x 1200, 2 GB RAM, Quad-Core Tegra K1, GameStream wireless from your PC, and get the quality level of a desktop, or stream over a half-decent internet connection with their GRID Cloud-Based service and get console-quality graphics. $299.

That thing doesn't get enough credit.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm willing to bet that people looking for a full Windows tablet or 2-in-1 aren't even considering an 8", 16GB Android tablet.

 

[Rapajez]

How about the NVIDIA Shield Tablet: 1920 x 1200, 2 GB RAM, Quad-Core Tegra K1, GameStream wireless from your PC, and get the quality level of a desktop, or stream over a half-decent internet connection with their GRID Cloud-Based service and get console-quality graphics. $299.

That thing doesn't get enough credit.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm willing to bet that people looking for a full Windows tablet or 2-in-1 aren't even considering an 8", 16GB Android tablet.

True, but it depends on their purpose. If it's gaming, the Shield is a pretty good prospect at $299. Especially if they already have a good router and/or gaming rig. You can also add up to a 128GB MicroSD card if you need more space. Finally, you throw in the native HDMI out, and dedicated gaming controller, and it doubles as a budget console.

Not for the average office or Adobe-product user, I'll give you that. I was just responding to the OP's challenge.

 

[RedJaron]

True, but it depends on their purpose. If it's gaming, the Shield is a pretty good prospect at $299. Especially if they already have a good router and/or gaming rig. You can also add up to a 128GB MicroSD card if you need more space. Finally, you throw in the native HDMI out, and dedicated gaming controller, and it doubles as a budget console.

Not for the average office or Adobe-product user, I'll give you that. I was just responding to the OP's challenge.

That "OP's challenge" was my own. I asked for a tablet that matched the Surface 3 specs, or at least were very close, for $300. This has Android instead of Windows, ARM instead of x86, a 3" smaller display, a quarter of the storage, USB 2.0 instead of 3.0, and no full-size USB port. About the only thing the Shield has in common with the Surface 3 is the display resolution and RAM quantity.

You're absolutely right about the purpose, and the Shield is nowhere near the same purpose as the Surface, or the many good full Windows tablets and convertibles that are now available around $300, so I'm not sure why you brought it up. It's like someone buying a car and you telling them to get a motorcycle instead.

 

[JPNpower]

Seems that Microsoft's blueprint strategy will continue for many years yet.

 

[littleleo]

The schools in the district around my house are all going to chrome books so all those kids are learning to use chrome O/S and the Google office programs. When time comes for them to buy there own what do you think they will buy? The chrome units use ARM CPUs, so no Intel & no MS should they be worried? And out of the total mobile market how many use Intel chips and MS O/S? MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users. If Google can rework the code to eliminate that MS would be really hurting.

MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users? wut?

For every android device sold MS gets paid. You don't think they made all that money selling Windows 8.x or Office 2013, or Surface Tablets? Lol, those are the worst selling versions in the history of the company, and their tablet still has the big problem of using Windows 8.x.

 

[canadianvice]

The schools in the district around my house are all going to chrome books so all those kids are learning to use chrome O/S and the Google office programs. When time comes for them to buy there own what do you think they will buy? The chrome units use ARM CPUs, so no Intel & no MS should they be worried? And out of the total mobile market how many use Intel chips and MS O/S? MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users. If Google can rework the code to eliminate that MS would be really hurting.

MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users? wut?

For every android device sold MS gets paid. You don't think they made all that money selling Windows 8.x or Office 2013, or Surface Tablets? Lol, those are the worst selling versions in the history of the company, and their tablet still has the big problem of using Windows 8.x.

That was for a patent violation, no?

As for the "tablet still has a problem using Windows 8.x" have you ever actually used one? That's been my daily mobile driver for over 3 years now and I have no complaints about Win8 whatsoever.

 

[littleleo]

The schools in the district around my house are all going to chrome books so all those kids are learning to use chrome O/S and the Google office programs. When time comes for them to buy there own what do you think they will buy? The chrome units use ARM CPUs, so no Intel & no MS should they be worried? And out of the total mobile market how many use Intel chips and MS O/S? MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users. If Google can rework the code to eliminate that MS would be really hurting.

MS is surviving by being a parasite to Android users? wut?

For every android device sold MS gets paid. You don't think they made all that money selling Windows 8.x or Office 2013, or Surface Tablets? Lol, those are the worst selling versions in the history of the company, and their tablet still has the big problem of using Windows 8.x.

That was for a patent violation, no?

As for the "tablet still has a problem using Windows 8.x" have you ever actually used one? That's been my daily mobile driver for over 3 years now and I have no complaints about Win8 whatsoever.

It is for patent royalties that many decided not to bother to challenge they felt it was faster and easier to pay.

I sell Severs, PC, notebooks and tablets to resellers and the one thing I still see is an over all disdain for Windows 8.x. Do I use windows 8.x no I've tried it and didn't care for it. If I was forced to use it I'd load classic shell. I have two tablets one is an apple one is an android. I have 2 notebooks neither uses Windows 8. I have 2 desktops and neither of those use Windows 8.x either. At my company the 400 plus computers we have only 1 has Windows 8.x and the guy hates it. Out of all the customers that have ordered notebooks, tablets, PCs, severs, and OEM O/Ss I can't assure you I've sold less then 40 since it's been released. I sell more then that in a week of Windows 7. So when I say it's not a popular seller I'm not giving you my opinion but what I'm seeing in the market. Personally I don't care what they buy as long as they buy,lol.

 

[JPNpower]

Well... let's see what Win10 would bring us shallwe?

 

[d_kuhn]

Win8.1 with Classic Shell is very usable... not perfect but usable. On the Surface Pro it works very well... the touchscreen giving you the ability to do some things faster, and with kb/mouse for most normal tasks. The only serious gripe I have is that for the first time in a long time Task Manager is no longer able to close all apps regardless of what the app wants. It's not like in Windows 7 where you had some apps that would relaunch tasks you force closed, I've come across some apps that simply will not kill on Win8.1... not a step in the right direction.