Question Newly built PC fails to boot only at first startup of the day ?

[LabrieD]

So I recently rebuilt my PC with almost entirely new parts save for the storage (3 SSD's + 1 HDD) and OS and it's been failing to post only the first time of the day I start it up (VGA & BOOT lights). If I restart it, everything boots perfectly fine it runs everything excellent afterward even if I shut down and boot up again.

Specs:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D 4.7 GHz 8-core
Cooler: Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Mobo: ASRock B650 Steel Legend Wifi ATX AM
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2x16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850 1 TB M.2 (Hosting Windows 10 Home OS)
Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB
Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB
Seagate BarraCuda 4 TB Internal HDD 3.5 Inch
GPU: XFX RX-79GMERCB9 Radeon RX 7900 GRE 16GB
PSU: be quiet! Pure Power 12M 750W 80+ Gold Certified
Case: be quiet! Shadow Base 800 FX ATX Mid-Tower

I know the Mobo isn't natively compatible with the 9800X3D, so I did the bios update using the button on the IO panel via USB and confirmed it's properly running the latest Bios version now (3.16).
Regarding the VGA light I've tried re-seating the GPU twice now, power cables and all, and it's running the latest drivers, so I'm not sure what else to check. It runs like a champ even under high load (120-240 FPS in Helldivers 2, ZZZ & FFXIV on max settings) after the first restart following the initial failed post test.
As for the BOOT light, I've ensured all of the prior OS data & partitions were wiped from the older SSD's I'm using for storage now and reinstalled windows 10 on the main SSD. I've tried running the system file checker and it didn't find anything post-OS re-install.
I've discharged the CMOS battery, tried disabling fast boot in UEFI, changed out the monitor cables and recent did a full tear-down & re-installation minus the CPU & cooler. Still the same thing.

It's been super difficult to test because I can only replicate it by waiting until the next day so I'm a bit at a loss of what to look into next.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so I know you updated the BIOS, BUT, did you also do a hard reset of the BIOS to reset the hardware tables? It's not always required, but in some cases it absolutely is otherwise the BIOS refuses to "forget" some of the settings that were relevant only to the old hardware. This is the first thing I would try, EXACTLY as outlined.

BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for about three to five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes while the CMOS battery is out of the motherboard, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 15-30 seconds, in order to deplete any residual charge that might be present in the CMOS circuit. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

It is probably also worth mentioning that for anything that might require an attempt to DO a hard reset in the first place, IF the problem is related to a lack of video signal, it is a GOOD IDEA to try a different type of display as many systems will not work properly for some reason with displayport configurations. It is worth trying HDMI if you are having no display or lack of visual ability to enter the BIOS, or no signal messages.

Trying a different monitor as well, if possible, is also a good idea if there is a lack of display. It happens.

If that fails to correct the issue, what is the exact model of your memory kit and are you CERTAIN that it is running at it's profile configuration when in Windows and not reverting to it's default JEDEC baseline configuration after the first failed boot/training of the day?

Honestly it sounds like maybe it's a board issue where there is a tenuous solder or other connection on one of the relays or caps but after it's been on a few minutes it warms up enough to make an adequate contact. This could also be the issue but related to ANY other piece of hardware. Graphics card, PSU, memory, anything that uses electrical traces, solder points, etc. and might have to "warm up" before it will boot.

 

[LabrieD]

Ok, so I know you updated the BIOS, BUT, did you also do a hard reset of the BIOS to reset the hardware tables? It's not always required, but in some cases it absolutely is otherwise the BIOS refuses to "forget" some of the settings that were relevant only to the old hardware. This is the first thing I would try, EXACTLY as outlined.




If that fails to correct the issue, what is the exact model of your memory kit and are you CERTAIN that it is running at it's profile configuration when in Windows and not reverting to it's default JEDEC baseline configuration after the first failed boot/training of the day?

Honestly it sounds like maybe it's a board issue where there is a tenuous solder or other connection on one of the relays or caps but after it's been on a few minutes it warms up enough to make an adequate contact. This could also be the issue but related to ANY other piece of hardware. Graphics card, PSU, memory, anything that uses electrical traces, solder points, etc. and might have to "warm up" before it will boot.

I'm not 100% certain if I followed the full discharge procedure when I replaced the CMOS battery last week so I attempted it again a short while ago and no dice I'm afraid. Kept it powered off for the full 5 min, discharged through the power button twice for the full 30 seconds just to make sure and after reassembly it still does the same thing. Cycles through the post lights one by one, stays clear of all of them for 10-20 seconds and then the VGA & Boot options come back on. I didn't have the foresight to record a video of it happening so I'll be doing that tomorrow when I can reproduce the issue.

This is the full title of the memory kit I have:
CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 (PC5 51200) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2B6400Z32
I haven't touched the DRAM profile configuration but did notice the screen lists it as DDR5 4800 instead of DDR5 6400, but was hesitant to touch it. I grabbed a few pics of the UEFI settings once I performed a reboot.

If it is a board issue, is there any visible signs I can look for? I've had the good fortune of never having to send PC parts like this back for RMA so I'm dreading a scenario where I may require evidence of a broken part to get replacement covered.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would enable the Expo profile, save the settings and reboot. Go back into the BIOS and verify that it is working at the correct advertised speed of 6400MT/s and 1.4v DRAM voltage. If so, use as normal and see if you have the same problem next time you cold boot.

 

[LabrieD]

I would enable the Expo profile, save the settings and reboot. Go back into the BIOS and verify that it is working at the correct advertised speed of 6400MT/s and 1.4v DRAM voltage. If so, use as normal and see if you have the same problem next time you cold boot.

Changed to the profile you recommended and had no issues after gaming a bit last night and when I turned it on a few moments ago it made some minute progress I suppose.
It still fails to fully boot but made it maybe one second farther than it did previously. Before it wouldn't even get past a black screen with the white underscore for a command line and now it made it to the UEFI screen before completely freezing.
I did get a recording of what exactly it does minus what it shows on screen because it only goes from black screen to UEFI selection before it freezes completely.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so do this next. Pull the graphics card entirely at the end of the day. Connect your monitor to the motherboard video output for the integrated graphics. When it's cold, see if it still has the same behavior. We are trying to eliminate the possibility that the graphics card is the problem since you have a VGA light coming on.

 

[LabrieD]

Ok, so do this next. Pull the graphics card entirely at the end of the day. Connect your monitor to the motherboard video output for the integrated graphics. When it's cold, see if it still has the same behavior. We are trying to eliminate the possibility that the graphics card is the problem since you have a VGA light coming on.

Finally had a chance to do a test before work this morning and with AMD GPU removed & single monitor plugged into the integrated GPU and same thing. Hoping to God it's not the GPU as I don't have the box for that anymore.

I do have an RTX 2070 Super I could pull out of a PC I'm holding for a friend and test with that, but with today's test I'm not sure if that would be superfluous?
Hoping this couldn't be caused by the monitors either, which are 2 Samsung Odyssey G7 27" LED Curved QHD, Model:LC27G75TQSNXZA SKU:6404863

 

[geofelt]

Consider the possibility that the cmos battery is no longer able to hold a charge and retain your settings across a full power off. Test with a voltmeter to be certain or buy a new one, they are cheap.

Try sleep to ram instead. It puts all hardware in a very low power state akin to power off.
The benefit is that sleep/wake is only a handful of seconds.

 

[DRagor]

The question would be: what (if even anything) you do differently between shutting it down during day and for the night? For example do you turn off PSU for the night?