Question Newly built PC fails to boot only at first startup of the day ?

[LabrieD]

So I recently rebuilt my PC with almost entirely new parts save for the storage (3 SSD's + 1 HDD) and OS and it's been failing to post only the first time of the day I start it up (VGA & BOOT lights). If I restart it, everything boots perfectly fine it runs everything excellent afterward even if I shut down and boot up again.

Specs:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D 4.7 GHz 8-core
Cooler: Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE
Mobo: ASRock B650 Steel Legend Wifi ATX AM
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2x16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850 1 TB M.2 (Hosting Windows 10 Home OS)
Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB
Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB
Seagate BarraCuda 4 TB Internal HDD 3.5 Inch
GPU: XFX RX-79GMERCB9 Radeon RX 7900 GRE 16GB
PSU: be quiet! Pure Power 12M 750W 80+ Gold Certified
Case: be quiet! Shadow Base 800 FX ATX Mid-Tower

I know the Mobo isn't natively compatible with the 9800X3D, so I did the bios update using the button on the IO panel via USB and confirmed it's properly running the latest Bios version now (3.16).
Regarding the VGA light I've tried re-seating the GPU twice now, power cables and all, and it's running the latest drivers, so I'm not sure what else to check. It runs like a champ even under high load (120-240 FPS in Helldivers 2, ZZZ & FFXIV on max settings) after the first restart following the initial failed post test.
As for the BOOT light, I've ensured all of the prior OS data & partitions were wiped from the older SSD's I'm using for storage now and reinstalled windows 10 on the main SSD. I've tried running the system file checker and it didn't find anything post-OS re-install.
I've discharged the CMOS battery, tried disabling fast boot in UEFI, changed out the monitor cables and recent did a full tear-down & re-installation minus the CPU & cooler. Still the same thing.

It's been super difficult to test because I can only replicate it by waiting until the next day so I'm a bit at a loss of what to look into next.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so I know you updated the BIOS, BUT, did you also do a hard reset of the BIOS to reset the hardware tables? It's not always required, but in some cases it absolutely is otherwise the BIOS refuses to "forget" some of the settings that were relevant only to the old hardware. This is the first thing I would try, EXACTLY as outlined.

BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for about three to five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes while the CMOS battery is out of the motherboard, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 15-30 seconds, in order to deplete any residual charge that might be present in the CMOS circuit. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

It is probably also worth mentioning that for anything that might require an attempt to DO a hard reset in the first place, IF the problem is related to a lack of video signal, it is a GOOD IDEA to try a different type of display as many systems will not work properly for some reason with displayport configurations. It is worth trying HDMI if you are having no display or lack of visual ability to enter the BIOS, or no signal messages.

Trying a different monitor as well, if possible, is also a good idea if there is a lack of display. It happens.

If that fails to correct the issue, what is the exact model of your memory kit and are you CERTAIN that it is running at it's profile configuration when in Windows and not reverting to it's default JEDEC baseline configuration after the first failed boot/training of the day?

Honestly it sounds like maybe it's a board issue where there is a tenuous solder or other connection on one of the relays or caps but after it's been on a few minutes it warms up enough to make an adequate contact. This could also be the issue but related to ANY other piece of hardware. Graphics card, PSU, memory, anything that uses electrical traces, solder points, etc. and might have to "warm up" before it will boot.

 

[LabrieD]

Ok, so I know you updated the BIOS, BUT, did you also do a hard reset of the BIOS to reset the hardware tables? It's not always required, but in some cases it absolutely is otherwise the BIOS refuses to "forget" some of the settings that were relevant only to the old hardware. This is the first thing I would try, EXACTLY as outlined.




If that fails to correct the issue, what is the exact model of your memory kit and are you CERTAIN that it is running at it's profile configuration when in Windows and not reverting to it's default JEDEC baseline configuration after the first failed boot/training of the day?

Honestly it sounds like maybe it's a board issue where there is a tenuous solder or other connection on one of the relays or caps but after it's been on a few minutes it warms up enough to make an adequate contact. This could also be the issue but related to ANY other piece of hardware. Graphics card, PSU, memory, anything that uses electrical traces, solder points, etc. and might have to "warm up" before it will boot.

I'm not 100% certain if I followed the full discharge procedure when I replaced the CMOS battery last week so I attempted it again a short while ago and no dice I'm afraid. Kept it powered off for the full 5 min, discharged through the power button twice for the full 30 seconds just to make sure and after reassembly it still does the same thing. Cycles through the post lights one by one, stays clear of all of them for 10-20 seconds and then the VGA & Boot options come back on. I didn't have the foresight to record a video of it happening so I'll be doing that tomorrow when I can reproduce the issue.

This is the full title of the memory kit I have:
CORSAIR Vengeance 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6400 (PC5 51200) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX5M2B6400Z32
I haven't touched the DRAM profile configuration but did notice the screen lists it as DDR5 4800 instead of DDR5 6400, but was hesitant to touch it. I grabbed a few pics of the UEFI settings once I performed a reboot.

If it is a board issue, is there any visible signs I can look for? I've had the good fortune of never having to send PC parts like this back for RMA so I'm dreading a scenario where I may require evidence of a broken part to get replacement covered.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would enable the Expo profile, save the settings and reboot. Go back into the BIOS and verify that it is working at the correct advertised speed of 6400MT/s and 1.4v DRAM voltage. If so, use as normal and see if you have the same problem next time you cold boot.

 

[LabrieD]

I would enable the Expo profile, save the settings and reboot. Go back into the BIOS and verify that it is working at the correct advertised speed of 6400MT/s and 1.4v DRAM voltage. If so, use as normal and see if you have the same problem next time you cold boot.

Changed to the profile you recommended and had no issues after gaming a bit last night and when I turned it on a few moments ago it made some minute progress I suppose.
It still fails to fully boot but made it maybe one second farther than it did previously. Before it wouldn't even get past a black screen with the white underscore for a command line and now it made it to the UEFI screen before completely freezing.
I did get a recording of what exactly it does minus what it shows on screen because it only goes from black screen to UEFI selection before it freezes completely.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so do this next. Pull the graphics card entirely at the end of the day. Connect your monitor to the motherboard video output for the integrated graphics. When it's cold, see if it still has the same behavior. We are trying to eliminate the possibility that the graphics card is the problem since you have a VGA light coming on.

 

[LabrieD]

Ok, so do this next. Pull the graphics card entirely at the end of the day. Connect your monitor to the motherboard video output for the integrated graphics. When it's cold, see if it still has the same behavior. We are trying to eliminate the possibility that the graphics card is the problem since you have a VGA light coming on.

Finally had a chance to do a test before work this morning and with AMD GPU removed & single monitor plugged into the integrated GPU and same thing. Hoping to God it's not the GPU as I don't have the box for that anymore.

I do have an RTX 2070 Super I could pull out of a PC I'm holding for a friend and test with that, but with today's test I'm not sure if that would be superfluous?
Hoping this couldn't be caused by the monitors either, which are 2 Samsung Odyssey G7 27" LED Curved QHD, Model:LC27G75TQSNXZA SKU:6404863

 

[geofelt]

Consider the possibility that the cmos battery is no longer able to hold a charge and retain your settings across a full power off. Test with a voltmeter to be certain or buy a new one, they are cheap.

Try sleep to ram instead. It puts all hardware in a very low power state akin to power off.
The benefit is that sleep/wake is only a handful of seconds.

 

[DRagor]

The question would be: what (if even anything) you do differently between shutting it down during day and for the night? For example do you turn off PSU for the night?

 

[LabrieD]

Consider the possibility that the cmos battery is no longer able to hold a charge and retain your settings across a full power off. Test with a voltmeter to be certain or buy a new one, they are cheap.

Try sleep to ram instead. It puts all hardware in a very low power state akin to power off.
The benefit is that sleep/wake is only a handful of seconds.

At this point this is the third battery I’ve tried. The one that came with the board, the spare I had in storage and the one I replaced a day or so ago was fresh from the store.
I’ll take a look into the sleep/wake thing if nothing thing else comes of this. I just really want to figure out the point of failure before looking into bypasses.

 

[LabrieD]

The question would be: what (if even anything) you do differently between shutting it down during day and for the night? For example do you turn off PSU for the night?

Power on is turning the wall surge protector it’s plugged into on, waiting for the case RGB to turn on and then pressing the power button on the case. Power off is using the shut-down from the taskbar start menu, waiting until the PC shuts down and the fans slow to a standstill and then turning the power strip off. I follow that consistently.

 

[DRagor]

Power on is turning the wall surge protector it’s plugged into on, waiting for the case RGB to turn on and then pressing the power button on the case. Power off is using the shut-down from the taskbar start menu, waiting until the PC shuts down and the fans slow to a standstill and then turning the power strip off. I follow that consistently.

Then I would suggest leaving power strip on for the night and see if that changes anything.

 

[geofelt]

When a psu is normally plugged into the wall, it still retains trickle power that lets the case power button start it up.
When totally unplugged from the wall, the psu must restart again.
I see no advantage to turning off the power strip,

 

[Darkbreeze]

Finally had a chance to do a test before work this morning and with AMD GPU removed & single monitor plugged into the integrated GPU and same thing.

Did you actually remove the graphics card, or did you just unplug it's power cable and move the display cable to the motherboard's video output?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Power on is turning the wall surge protector it’s plugged into on, waiting for the case RGB to turn on and then pressing the power button on the case. Power off is using the shut-down from the taskbar start menu, waiting until the PC shuts down and the fans slow to a standstill and then turning the power strip off. I follow that consistently.

This is not the way things should be done. Unplugging the PSU or cutting off it's supply with a power strip is bad for the PSU. Once in a while, when it's necessary, no problem. Every day or every time, not so much. Repeated inrush can have a cumulative damaging effect on the power supplies internal electronics. Simply powering off is sufficient, as geofelt expressed.

Also, IF you DO unplug or cut power going to the unit, you should FIRST flip the switch off on the PSU after the shut down procedure. You should not unplug the PSU or cut power to it without flipping the switch off ( 0 position) first. And when you reconnect power, you should never restore power by turning the power strip back on or plugging the PSU back in if the PSU switch is not in the 0 position.

The only time you should be flipping the switch off on the PSU, or unplugging it, or cutting it's power source, is if you plan to work on the machine or move it.

 

[LabrieD]

Did you actually remove the graphics card, or did you just unplug it's power cable and move the display cable to the motherboard's video output?

Fully removed. Been sitting in a sealed static bag since last night. I additionally left the power to the PSU turned on even after shutting the PC down at suggestion of some of the other posts, same problem starting it up a few hours later.
As for the power off procedure thing, I’ll be honest this is the first I’ve heard of that being a problem, even after my cert courses. I’ll keep it in mind though, I’ll just need to figure out how to turn off the rgb at night.

I did an additional test with a separate monitor using the HDMI port on the board instead of the DisplayPort I’ve been using and it did the same thing. At least I can seemingly replicate the issue it a bit more consistently now. It just takes a few hours of being powered off.
At this point I’m mostly just concerned which place I’ll have to replace since the return period for most of it ended today.

 

[DRagor]

I’ll just need to figure out how to turn off the rgb at night

There should be such option in BIOS to turn RGB off when system is not running.

It just takes a few hours of being powered off.

Typically it would suggest a dead (or nearly) capacitor, either in PSU or on motherboard. Can't really tell which part without testing with spare one. Obviously it is way easier to connect spare PSU for a test.

 

[Gururu]

My guess is the PSU. Is it new?

 

[LabrieD]

There should be such option in BIOS to turn RGB off when system is not running.

Typically it would suggest a dead (or nearly) capacitor, either in PSU or on motherboard. Can't really tell which part without testing with spare one. Obviously it is way easier to connect spare PSU for a test.

I’ve got an old EVGA supernova 650 gs I can try. Didn’t want to leave it in storage for my friend’s PC but if I can figure out which of the two it is today I’ll be a super happy camper.

 

[LabrieD]

My guess is the PSU. Is it new?

Brand new, never used before unboxing in late January a few weeks ago.

 

[LabrieD]

There should be such option in BIOS to turn RGB off when system is not running.

Typically it would suggest a dead (or nearly) capacitor, either in PSU or on motherboard. Can't really tell which part without testing with spare one. Obviously it is way easier to connect spare PSU for a test.

Connected the old PSU to the new PC and it turned on successfully. Not sure if that’s proved a proper diagnosis or I just failed to properly reproduce the issue but I’ll try to leave it powered down for a few hours to try and reproduce it as exactly as possible.

 

[LabrieD]

Connected the old PSU to the new PC and it turned on successfully. Not sure if that’s proved a proper diagnosis or I just failed to properly reproduce the issue but I’ll try to leave it powered down for a few hours to try and reproduce it as exactly as possible.

Attempted another power-on with the old 650w PSU and it turned on without issue again. Still not entirely sure if I’m waiting long enough between attempts, but this is the first night I’ve had time to do multiple tests. I’m a bit iffy about trying with the GPU back in as pcpartpicker mentioned a 650w PSU wouldn’t be enough for an AMD 7900GRE.

 

[Darkbreeze]

As for the power off procedure thing, I’ll be honest this is the first I’ve heard of that being a problem, even after my cert courses. I’ll keep it in mind though,

And now you've heard it from Jon Gerow, AKA JonnyGuru, who for many years owned and ran, and then just assisted with with Oklahoma Wolf took over doing the reviews and running the site, the preeminent power supply review website and forum on, well, pretty much anywhere. He is now the Chief engineer in charge of power supply development at Corsair. He and Aris Mpitziopoulos are without question two of the most knowledgeable people in the entire world when it comes to knowledge and understanding, design, testing and best practices of PC power supplies. If he says it's not a good idea, it's not a good idea.

Also, the answer to you question about the RGB is in there as well. TLDR; There should be a setting in the BIOS to allow you to NOT have lighting remain on when you shut down.

Why are you flipping the switch off all the time? Should probably only do that if you plan to move the PC or work on it.

https://forum.corsair.com/forums/topic/180245-is-it-safe-to-flip-the-psu-switch-off-after-you-turn-off-the-pc/

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/flipping-psu-switch-at-night.3566982/post-21534216

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...after-i-shut-down-my-pc.3641988/post-21942415

 

[Darkbreeze]

If it did it twice, I'd be REALLY leaning towards the PSU. And to be honest, a LOT of BeQuiet's PSUs are very hit or miss.

I'd try leaving it overnight, just to be sure, and try it in the morning. If it does not do it again this time, I'd really be leaning towards either it was the PSU or you had something that wasn't completely and entirely plugged in correctly.

 

[LabrieD]

If it did it twice, I'd be REALLY leaning towards the PSU. And to be honest, a LOT of BeQuiet's PSUs are very hit or miss.

I'd try leaving it overnight, just to be sure, and try it in the morning. If it does not do it again this time, I'd really be leaning towards either it was the PSU or you had something that wasn't completely and entirely plugged in correctly.

I tried it in the morning and the initial startup was completely successful, however when I used the asrock restart to uefi option to go to the bios and check into the rgb settings it failed to post again. Same lights as always.