Next VGA chart for AGP cards

[choknuti]

However there is very little that we need expansion cards for. Most things are integrated quite nicely into the new MoBos. the stuff that there is now is the stuff that truely benifits from it, like Gigabit ethernet and Raid solutions.

Well some people need 2 network cards and cheap modems. Except for certain place actually most people use dialup (yours truly included 🙁 ).

of that has to do with Creative, they have the ability to step out on the limb and do it, but they don't, while everyone else is just trying to survive, and can't afford a failed product line when competing against Meg-Audio-sorus. I don't think they realize that some people get just one PCI slot (if that) with the smaller mini/micro-atx boards.

I agree with you here and the problem is not just Creative. Except for a few manufacturers (+nvidia and ati) most are totally ignoring the PCIE market. And it’s not the chicken-egg factor anymore.

Most ATX based non-sli/xfire boards have 3-4, I've even seen 5.

The best I can find here is 3. 🙁

There is an Audigy 4 integrated solution which is OK and the Karajan audio solution is technically a PCIe audio 'card' with the annoying flipped connector so you can't use it on just any mobo. Both are good, but not great.

No MSI 4 me

Actually those have been out for about a year (the MSI ones were the first I saw for sale in Canada), here's a recent review of the Powercrapper one;
http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=764&cid=2

Best tuners you can buy until the Theatre 600 actually ships (announce last month) IMO.

Thanks that part of your post really settled a matter that was worrying me a lot. Hope they are available locally when I do my next upgrade. 😀

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well some people need 2 network cards

Many of the new MoBos have 2 RJ-45s usualy one gigabit and one T10/100.

and cheap modems. Except for certain place actually most people use dialup (yours truly included 🙁 ).

I hear ya', the cottage was dial-up until last year. Modems still have their place, but I still laugh and then cringe when I see the prices of some of the add-ins @ BestBuy $150 for a 56K modem, uh no thanks I'll check computer surplus thanks!.

I agree with you here and the problem is not just Creative. Except for a few manufacturers (+nvidia and ati) most are totally ignoring the PCIE market. And it’s not the chicken-egg factor anymore.

Well the problem is like I said, Creative's got the money to do the R&D to risk a PCIe product line, but they don't. To me it is creative's fault for stiffling cometition and by not advancing the products in the marketplace. I mean seriuously how difficult is it for them to add PCIe to one of their lines, especially the XFI with the break-out box?

No MSI 4 me

Well it was more of an example that there are some out there, and it's not beyond reason tha it should extend to other makers. Once they add DLL and DTS-live to integrated with solid SNR and 96/24 with 8 channel, then we'll have less to worry about. Of course EAX becomes and issue, but having just yanked my Audigy2ZS out of my laptop and returned to the connexant integrated for my Oblivion gaming, I don't miss it THAT much, at least not enough to suffer the buzzing. I would miss the DVD-A and other features if I had to stay with integrated for my music and audio editing. OIE that would SUCK!

Thanks that part of your post really settled a matter that was worrying me a lot. Hope they are available locally when I do my next upgrade. 😀

NCIX in Canada (they ship to the states) has been selling the MSI for about a year.

NewEgg only seems to carry the PCI version.

I'd contact MSI and Powercolor directly when you're ready to upgrade and find their respective distributors who've ordered the PCIe variant. Hopefully by the time you upgrade the Theater600 chip is available.

 

[theaxemaster]

As for Creative not doing the PCIe thing, I don't think all of the blame is with them. Take any mainstream SLI board out there. You've got x16, x1, x16, x1, then 3 PCI slots on most of them. So if you're going to run SLI, you've got nowhere to put a x1 card because of the coolers on the graphics cards. Most non-SLI boards are x16, x1,x1, then maybe 4 PCI slots. So you've got one slot there you can use.

Obviously, for enthusiasts, a PCIe card is useless. And like it was stated before, some onboard stuff is riding on the PCIe bandwidth, so for most people, a sound card and maybe a tuner is all that they need to land in a PCI slot. They're not exactly hurting for bandwidth that way. That's the majority of the market and that's why they haven't done it yet.

 

[choknuti]

NCIX in Canada (they ship to the states) has been selling the MSI for about a year.

NewEgg only seems to carry the PCI version.

I'd contact MSI and Powercolor directly when you're ready to upgrade and find their respective distributors who've ordered the PCIe variant. Hopefully by the time you upgrade the Theater600 chip is available.

Well I’m in St. Petersburg Russia. The selection of hardware here is really dismissal. Most often I get things down from Moscow. I hope that this will be available here.
Sorry about being a bother but could you provide me with a link so that I could read up on that chip (theatre 600) Googling doesn’t help as I get over 17 mil hits 🙁

 

[choknuti]

As for Creative not doing the PCIe thing, I don't think all of the blame is with them. Take any mainstream SLI board out there. You've got x16, x1, x16, x1, then 3 PCI slots on most of them. So if you're going to run SLI, you've got nowhere to put a x1 card because of the coolers on the graphics cards. Most non-SLI boards are x16, x1,x1, then maybe 4 PCI slots. So you've got one slot there you can use.

That really is terrible. MBs are beginning to look like slots for processor, ram and GPU only. The more they start to integrate everything on the MBs the less expansion cards are going to be available. In a few years we might as well chuck up the PC and go for an X-Box or something like that (God forbid!!!!!) 🙁

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

As for Creative not doing the PCIe thing, I don't think all of the blame is with them. Take any mainstream SLI board out there. You've got x16, x1, x16, x1, then 3 PCI slots on most of them. So if you're going to run SLI, you've got nowhere to put a x1 card because of the coolers on the graphics cards. Most non-SLI boards are x16, x1,x1, then maybe 4 PCI slots. So you've got one slot there you can use.

That's not a good enough excuse, if I run and SFF case (more and more poular for MediaPCs) I encounter the same problem with a single PCI slot, but unlike the PCI method you can have a short slot audion solution like the Karajan solution I mentioned that likely could ride beside a dual slot cooler since it wouldn't go back far enough to block the HSF intake/output. Either way it's them not doing what they're supposed to do as dominant marketr leaders. If it weren't for the BS patent/copyright system in the US there'd be people challenging Creative far more often, and forcing them to do wha they're supposed to as market leaders. Don't get me wrong patent protection is necessary, but if you are buying out the competition to become the basic monopolistic player in the market then the regulators need to bar that too. It's either/or because allowing Creative what they have has not benifited the consumer/marketplace.

Obviously, for enthusiasts, a PCIe card is useless. And like it was stated before, some onboard stuff is riding on the PCIe bandwidth, so for most people, a sound card and maybe a tuner is all that they need to land in a PCI slot. They're not exactly hurting for bandwidth that way.

How is this different, PCI rides off the PCIe lanes as well. As for hurting the only people hurting would be people using dongle/bridgeless SLi/Xfire on an older board, and in all likelyhood PCIe would solve alot of the IRQ issues typical with plain PCI.

That's the majority of the market and that's why they haven't done it yet.

Seeing as that this PCIe minority of the market likely represents 30+% of the consumers, that's alot of potential buyers, far larger than the totals of TurtleBeach, and likely far more than TurleBeach and M-Audio combined.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well I’m in St. Petersburg Russia. The selection of hardware here is really dismissal. Most often I get things down from Moscow. I hope that this will be available here.

Should eventually get there, when I don't know.

Sorry about being a bother but could you provide me with a link so that I could read up on that chip (theatre 600) Googling doesn’t help as I get over 17 mil hits 🙁

I'll have to remember where I saw the write up it was during one of the recent conferences/expos. It is supposed to arrive on products in the summer/fall.