No, Coffee Lake Will Not Run In Z270 Motherboards (And Here’s Why)

[Sam Hain]

If it can show a CONSISTENT 50% performance gain over my existing rig (4790K/Z97) with/in games, I'm in.

If not, I'm quite happy where I'm at.

Your money but that is kind of a big task haha 50% boost over a CPU upgrade. You do have a great CPU though it should last you a few more years.

Yeah, was hoping Santee-Claus was bringing in the percentile-boost without going overboard in price this year lol; prices seem decent though for C/Lake. Glad I've got a good OC'er w/decent temps and voltage-play for the next couple of years.

But will say this. It's good to see CPU development (forward) even if it's not leaps and bounds above Kaby. The Red team made the Blue team move their hind-ends this year a tad more than usual. Competition is good for all, especially us, the end-user.

sláinte mhaith!

 

[InvalidError]

But will say this. It's good to see CPU development (forward) even if it's not leaps and bounds above Kaby.

Extra cores are bringing leaps and bounds more total throughput to the table even if most games aren't going to leverage much if any of it any time soon. I use my PC mainly for work and I'm glad to know that my next mainstream PC is going to have enough extra processing power to run tons of extra background stuff with very little worry of anything slowing down.

 

[TJ Hooker]

What I mean is that I specifically bought Skylake because it was unusually compatible with an extra generation of hardware. I thought this was thanks to Intel's new tick-tock-tock cycle. Intel doesn't keep things compatible like they say.

Did Intel ever say that coffee lake/3 generations of CPUs would be supported on LGA 1151(v1)?
I remember hoping myself that LGA 1151 would support an extra generation due to the fact that in the past Intel only brought a new socket with a new architecture. However, I don't think they ever said or implied that it would support a 3rd generation, and in the past Intel only had two generations per socket.

 

[Kmhb]

will i3 8100 support h110 motherboards?

 

[13thmonkey]

I bought an H110 chipset with an i3-6100 for a budget build about a year ago. I did that with the hope to drop in a Coffee Lake i5 in another two years--then I'd have a solid gaming machine through 2024 or so (considering my i7-2600K still beasts through almost any title).

I did get screwed over by Intel. I will be dropping in an i5-7600 instead, I guess. But it's still a pretty big let down.

I can do a cheap build with a Ryzen R3 right now and upgrade it with an R5 in 3 years. That is actually really nice. It's what I've been telling my students to do for their $500 gaming builds lately.

A year ago nobody knew Intel would bring hex cores to the mainstream with coffee lake. So if you were planning on an eventual upgrade of your i3, it would have been to a quad core. Which you can still totally do, and are planning on doing. So nothing has really changed.

Upgrading from an R3 to an R5 would be analogous to upgrading from an i3 to an i5, which again is something everyone can still do.

Or you could just spend an extra ~$50 on a cheap H310 (or whatever they're going to be called) once they're out and upgrade to coffee lake anyway.

Look, I get that it kinda sucks that us current LGA 1151 owners can't get a hex core CPU without upgrading mobos. But no one had any reason to expect to be able to make that upgrade in the first place. All this self righteous indignation and feelings of betrayel are just silly as far as I'm concerned.

What I mean is that I specifically bought Skylake because it was unusually compatible with an extra generation of hardware. I thought this was thanks to Intel's new tick-tock-tock cycle. Intel doesn't keep things compatible like they say.

Was it noted at the time that skylake was out that anything but kabylake would be compatible, I doubt it, Intel doesn't talk about things that are yet to be released, they wouldn't have officially spoken about kaby lake at the point that skylake came out, so you'd have heard nothing about coffee lake but rumours (not even how many cores it would have), and you were kidding yourself if you bought based on rumours and expected it to come off.

 

[InvalidError]

will i3 8100 support h110 motherboards?

Coffee Lake is not going to be compatible with 200-series motherboard so you can forget 100-series.

 

[Rob1C]

Intel has a three way leapfrog race with a dozen entries in the race.

The Processor, Chipset and Socket all leapfrog each other, as long as they are within calling distance they can all communicate; when one pulls far ahead of the others you need to switch frog mid-race to stay in touch with the other nearest ones.

AMD has fewer frogs in it's race and the Processor, Chipset, and Socket all run together for a longer period of time; if you like to upgrade only your CPU and run behind a bit then AMD is for you.

If you have the money buying the leading edge for a premium to get a bit ahead (Intel) gets you ahead (when time=money, or you're selling CPU Slices running a Server).

Where Wattage is a concern there's ARM Servers and where shear power is required there's the POWER9 or Big Iron.

Know what you are buying into - don't buy a DSLR if you don't want to put out a lot more for a bunch of Lenses, don't buy a Compact Camera if you want the most Megapixels, fine Prime Lenses or Zooms. Buy what you want, get what you buy.

 

[andyz0976]

There is really only one reason: GREED

 

[jimmysmitty]

And people wonder why there are AMD fanboys? One company tries to support consumer needs and future plans and the other could care less so long as they've got the money.

* like this makes me want to buy Ryzen. Then I think about how awesome my Rift will run on the 8700k and I buy Intel

There's no way I can recommend Intel nowadays. Sure, they might be a little faster for some applications, but in a couple years when programming matures, Ryzen IPC will probably catch up. AND you'll be able to upgrade to a great new Ryzen processor for only $200. If you want Intel at that point, you'll need to spend $300 on the CPU and $200 on the motherboard (or wait 6 months more for mainstream chipsets).

$300 more for equal performance while also feeling like you got shafted isn't something I'm into. That's also why I'm still running an i7-2600K though and will get Ryzen when my Sandy Bridge stops feeling adequate.

In a couple of years? In a couple of years Ryzen will be old news as both AMD and Intel should have multiple new CPUs out. It may catch up to existing but anything new should outperform it.

And how do you know how much the CPU will cost in a couple of years? If AMD does catch up or pass Intel, they will price accordingly.

"And Here is Why" You never said why. I am an Intel owner and I have owned a lot of Intel products. But I am very disappointed by the removal chipset compatibility. It is a money grab and there are not any other arguments (and here is why). If it were a power delivery issue with the 6 core parts, then the i3's would run just fine on the 100/200 series chipsets because they are just 7500s. Very disappointing and I am strongly considering purchasing an AMD product for my next CPU.

So you know the exact pin layout and power system of the new CPUs? You have seen the die and diagram for every Coffee Lake CPU? No?

Until we see that it is impossible to make any judgment calls on it. We can assume but all that does is makes us look like you know what since there could be multiple changes that require a new chipset or there could be none.

All this talk about overclocking, but did they still cheap out and use TIM? I'm willing to bet they did, which from what we have seen, will make these a nightmare to cool when overclocked. AMD really spooked them and I'm glad to see it. I'm waiting for Ryzen 2, but might end up with Cannon lake if that ends up significantly faster at comparable pricing....But odds are looking good that I will have my first AMD CPU since my K62-300.

Intel's constant motherboard changes is just one of the reasons I haven't upgraded. Incremental performance increases is the main reason. Lets see if Intel can deliver or if it's just more marketing hype.

Ahh yes. Intel releasing new motherboards for new CPUs to support new technologies is horrible. Instead they should still support LGA 775 with Coffee Lake so I can pair a nice high speed 6 core CPU with a Z68 chipset, with SATA 300 and good old Windows XP. That's the real dream right there.

 

[13thmonkey]

So it's WCCFTech, used to be my least trusted source but: http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-lga-1151-pin-configuration-detailed/
Different layout.

 

[InvalidError]

And how do you know how much the CPU will cost in a couple of years? If AMD does catch up or pass Intel, they will price accordingly.

If AMD and Intel do end up competing beyond Ryzen's disruptive introduction, the cost for a given amount of processing power should be going down significantly instead of stagnating or going up as it did over Intel's five years of nearly absolute domination.

Back when AMD and Intel were on par on performance, when one company leapfrogged the other, price cuts ensued and people became able to buy more processing power than they every could for significantly cheaper than ever before. People have forgotten about that after the ~10 years of the PC CPU space being largely one-sided with AMD being the only one forced to cut prices to keep units moving.

 

[13thmonkey]

And how do you know how much the CPU will cost in a couple of years? If AMD does catch up or pass Intel, they will price accordingly.

If AMD and Intel do end up competing beyond Ryzen's disruptive introduction, the cost for a given amount of processing power should be going down significantly instead of stagnating or going up as it did over Intel's five years of nearly absolute domination.

Back when AMD and Intel were on par on performance, when one company leapfrogged the other, price cuts ensued and people became able to buy more processing power than they every could for significantly cheaper than ever before. People have forgotten about that after the ~10 years of the PC CPU space being largely one-sided with AMD being the only one forced to cut prices to keep units moving.

However when C2D was released, that was the biggest bang for buck by a long way, when compared to the costs of the high end PIV and AMDs offering at the time.

 

[InvalidError]

However when C2D was released, that was the biggest bang for buck by a long way, when compared to the costs of the high end PIV and AMDs offering at the time.

Which is exactly why I wrote "~10 years ago" - when Intel left AMD in the dust.

With AMD still behind Intel on single-threaded performance, the price cutting is still happening mainly on AMD's side. It should get more interesting with Ryzen 2 where Intel may become the one who needs to cut prices.

Aside from outrageous pricing on some i3 models, Intel hasn't cut prices on desktop CPUs in ~10 years.

 

[jimmysmitty]

And how do you know how much the CPU will cost in a couple of years? If AMD does catch up or pass Intel, they will price accordingly.

If AMD and Intel do end up competing beyond Ryzen's disruptive introduction, the cost for a given amount of processing power should be going down significantly instead of stagnating or going up as it did over Intel's five years of nearly absolute domination.

Back when AMD and Intel were on par on performance, when one company leapfrogged the other, price cuts ensued and people became able to buy more processing power than they every could for significantly cheaper than ever before. People have forgotten about that after the ~10 years of the PC CPU space being largely one-sided with AMD being the only one forced to cut prices to keep units moving.

Price has stayed the same or gone down. The i7 2600K launched at $317 while the i7 7700K launched at $305. Not sure how much Ryzen affected Coffee Lake or if it was planned and delayed due to 14nm issues, we will never really know, but it is good. Hopefully 8 core CPUs become mainstream for Intel sooner rather than later.

I agree pricing should go down but Intel needs competition for that. My only point was that there is no way to expect a top end CPU to be $200 that will fit into the same socket if it competes or beats Intel. The only way I could see Ryzen 2, or whatever AMD has in a couple years, being that cheap is if they drop back significantly in competitive performance like with Bulldozer.

 

[InvalidError]

My only point was that there is no way to expect a top end CPU to be $200 that will fit into the same socket if it competes or beats Intel. The only way I could see Ryzen 2, or whatever AMD has in a couple years, being that cheap is if they drop back significantly in competitive performance like with Bulldozer.

There is plenty of room for AMD (and Intel) to cut prices on AM4/LGA1xxx if they need to: Ryzen allegedly costs under $70 to manufacture and if Intel can sell Pentiums for less than $70, then the cost of making it or the i3 it is cut down from must be even lower and the i5/i7 wouldn't be too many bucks over that for the slightly increased die size. The only thing they need is market pressure to do so and that's going to start tomorrow with Coffee Lake's launch putting pressure on AMD to drop prices on Ryzen.

 

[mdd1963]

Let's take the 7700K for example, cranking out 150 fps in BF1...; are those results suddenly 'woefully inadequate' if the 8700K releases and can crank out 180 fps (probably a tad optimistic, but, shows a 20% increase)?

Not at all, especially if the minimum FPS are high on both of them. If anything, that extra performance ends up getting wasted, as I think there are literally only a handful of monitors that could even display that kind of FPS...although, I guess, if you can afford those monitors, you can probably afford to replace 80% of your system to go from Skylake/Kaby Lake to Coffee Lake anyway...

It was a rhetorical question....but thanks for agreeing !

(Plenty happy with my 7700K, I certainly hope to make it last until 10th gen if possible, with a GPU upgrade in 12-18 months or when needed! )

 

[gmcouto]

BULLSHIT! Seriously, high-end z270 don't have good enough power delivery?

this was a corporate move.

 

[InvalidError]

BULLSHIT! Seriously, high-end z270 don't have good enough power delivery?

this was a corporate move.

The Coffee Lake pinout has two extra diagonal rows of Vcore power/ground mainly from redefining 'reserved' pins, which means the socket's pinout itself may not have had good enough power delivery.

 

[13thmonkey]

BULLSHIT! Seriously, high-end z270 don't have good enough power delivery?

this was a corporate move.

BULLSHIT! Seriously, high-end z270 don't have good enough power delivery?

this was a corporate move.

The Coffee Lake pinout has two extra diagonal rows of Vcore power/ground mainly from redefining 'reserved' pins, which means the socket's pinout itself may not have had good enough power delivery.

GMCouto, you joined to say that? Did you see the pinout change above? There have been 2 generations on that socket, which is normal, and if you are upgrading from anything before 6th series it makes no difference, if you are upgrading from 6th and 7th series then you took a risk that a rumoured CPU might be compatible.