No OS installed on SSD - possible to install Win10..?

[Peter_Austin]

Hello,

I have a samsung r780 laptop (i5, 4gb ram, newly replaced motherboard) with an old 500gb HDD that has failed once and is now very slow.

Other than upping the ram to 8gb, I am replacing the dying HDD with a 250gb SSD.

The HDD contains partitions with samsung's recovery software (win 7 home, the key is... kinda rubbed off the sticker on the base of the machine).

I don't mind so much about the drivers restore and whatever - I have these files as .zip's and samsung hasn't made a new laptop for years, so they won't be updated.

Windows 10 was doing a good job of running, despite a display problem during installation (ironically during the ease of access / display set up), because of the discrete nvidia 330M graphics processor and how the windows 10 install seems to think it's not a video output, blah blah...

anyway - to the point:

Is it possible to install Win10 fresh on this new SSD from, say, a USB or DVD drive..?

Or must I first install Win7 using my disc and one of the several license keys I own, and then upgrade to Win10..?

I'm assuming because Win10 is offered as a "free upgrade" that it requires an existing install and license for win7/8 to be installed? Or is a win 7/8 license key enough to install Win10..?

Thanks - there is little information about if you can just install win10 like you would any other OS, or if it must be an upgrade (in effect, a double windows installation... groaaannnn...).

Cheers!
Pete

hmm, maybe I can use the key from the win10 upgrade - but does changing the HDD and RAM, mainboard and screen mean that win10 will not recognise the hardware signature of the laptop, and I'll have to call microsoft anyway..? Maybe I ought to dig out the win7 discs...

 

[basroil]

You need to have an activated of 7 or 8 to upgrade to 10. Once upgraded you can reinstall, but you need the original OS first. If you already installed Windows 10 before, try a fresh install of 10, and it should activate .

 

[USAFRet]

For the free Upgrade to Windows 10, it must be done from a qualifying, activated, fully updated, Win 7 or 8.1.

Now....you say it already had Windows 10 and now you want to change drives...How did it get there on the old drive?

 

[smorizio]

one you upgrade to windows 10 microsoft uses the oem number form the old os to give you a valid copy of 10. when you reinstall windows 10 you skip where it ask for a new key. once the laptop/desktops are online it will re register with microsoft and be vaild again.

 

[Peter_Austin]

You need to have an activated of 7 or 8 to upgrade to 10. Once upgraded you can reinstall, but you need the original OS first. If you already installed Windows 10 before, try a fresh install of 10, and it should activate .

So you are saying,

Win 7 / 8 installed.
Upgrade to win 10
Then you can reinstall
So long as you install "original OS" (win 7 / 8?).
But if you already installed win 10,
Try a fresh install (what is this..? upgrade from win 7 / 8 or only win 10..?).

I am confused. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something...

 

[Peter_Austin]

For the free Upgrade to Windows 10, it must be done from a qualifying, activated, fully updated, Win 7 or 8.1.

Now....you say it already had Windows 10 and now you want to change drives...How did it get there on the old drive?

It got there by me upgrading the existing windows 7 installation.

Perhaps my question was not obvious in all the talk...
I'd like to know if I can install win 10 directly, with no previous OS to upgrade from, and an unformatted hard disc.

I'd like to know if I can avoid having to install win 7, spending hours getting it working, then have to go through the process of upgrading to win 10 from win 7 again.

 

[basroil]

It got there by me upgrading the existing windows 7 installation.

Perhaps my question was not obvious in all the talk...
I'd like to know if I can install win 10 directly, with no previous OS to upgrade from, and an unformatted hard disc.

I'd like to know if I can avoid having to install win 7, spending hours getting it working, then have to go through the process of upgrading to win 10 from win 7 again.

Once Windows 10 has been activated for your machine (mostly motherboard, some other parts also checked), you can install it on a new disk without a previous version. As such, your machine no longer needs to have Win 7 to install Win 10, just put in a Win 10 disk and enjoy.

 

[Peter_Austin]

one you upgrade to windows 10 microsoft uses the oem number form the old os to give you a valid copy of 10. when you reinstall windows 10 you skip where it ask for a new key. once the laptop/desktops are online it will re register with microsoft and be vaild again.

There is a problem with this:

The laptop has new RAM, new SSD, new mainboard, new LCD. The only things that are the same are the keyboard and touchpad, dvd drive... charger...

The hardware signature has totally changed.
From what I understand, Microsoft use this sig. to identify the machine and match it with the license.

Because of this - I must contact them to activate by phone. This is no problem.

Here is where the issue becomes more apparent - it is not about licensing.

The windows seven home installation files for the laptop are stored in a partition reserved for samsung system restore, on the old, failed HDD.

The usual solution of installing win 7 and then upgrading is not possible - the SSD is unformatted - the system files for win 7 are irrecoverable.

Is the only way to acquire win 10 to upgrade from win 7 or 8..?

Is there no standalone installation media, where I can install win 10 to desktop and activate at this stage..?

(Like with any "normal" OS...)

On a new machine (or a replacement, such as this), must I always install win 7 and then upgrade to win 10, even if I already have licenses that will no longer be used (because the machine is no non-existent)..?

Seems weird - like there will be thousands of ghost licenses... like dead profiles on facebook, but with operating systems. It can't be this way.

 

[Peter_Austin]

It got there by me upgrading the existing windows 7 installation.

Perhaps my question was not obvious in all the talk...
I'd like to know if I can install win 10 directly, with no previous OS to upgrade from, and an unformatted hard disc.

I'd like to know if I can avoid having to install win 7, spending hours getting it working, then have to go through the process of upgrading to win 10 from win 7 again.

Once Windows 10 has been activated for your machine (mostly motherboard, some other parts also checked), you can install it on a new disk without a previous version. As such, your machine no longer needs to have Win 7 to install Win 10, just put in a Win 10 disk and enjoy.

So, I must make win 10 installation media..?
I guess a USB is fine..?

The only things left from the laptop from before are the keyboard, touchpad, dvd and charger - even the case was replaced because of damage.

The machine that had the license is dead.
It will never use the license again.
The new machine (while still the same, exact same parts replaced) is not the same machine.

The license key must be retrievable and re-enterable somewhere..?

Perhaps I had better write to MS about this 😛

 

[USAFRet]

There is a problem with this:

The laptop has new RAM, new SSD, new mainboard, new LCD. The only things that are the same are the keyboard and touchpad, dvd drive... charger...

Then this is a whole new PC. There is no 'license' associated with that hardware.

You must install Win 7, activate it, then do the Upgrade to Win 10.

 

[Peter_Austin]

So to summarise the thread:

If you have win 7 installed, you can upgrade to win 10.

Once you have upgraded to win 10, you now have a win 10 license that is bound to your critical hardware config.

Therefore, you can perform a "clean" installation using win 10 installation media, without need to repeat the upgrade from win 7 or 8.


So, we have established that it is possible to install win 10 without need to always upgrade from previous version using standalone boot installation media.


The next thing, then, is:

If your critical hardware (mainboard, etc...) has changed:

What would be the case then..?


Now that it's obvious that a "clean" install of windows 10 on an unformatted disc is possible, it leaves the question of how licensing this installation is obtained in the case of changing critical hardware

Would it be, use win 10 installation, enter old win 10 license, we see that machine is no longer functioning, no probs enjoy windows.

or

use win 10 installation, activation doesn't recognise sig for license as hardware has changed, please call, no probs enjoy windows.

or

use win 10 installation, activation doesn't work, cannot install, please install win 7, activate that again, then upgrade it, then we can see you've already upgraded with this key, what's going on, welcome to forum hell, please write a letter.

 

[USAFRet]

The windows seven home installation files for the laptop are stored in a partition reserved for samsung system restore, on the old, failed HDD.

The usual solution of installing win 7 and then upgrading is not possible - the SSD is unformatted - the system files for win 7 are irrecoverable.

Is the only way to acquire win 10 to upgrade from win 7 or 8..?

Is there no standalone installation media, where I can install win 10 to desktop and activate at this stage..?

This you must obtain from the manufacturer, Samsung. It existed on the original drive, and you should have created your own install DVD set from that.
Water under the bridge, because it is gone.

Now...even if you got it from Samsung...would that work with a whole new PC? Highly doubtful.

Bottom line, you have a 'new PC'. The license that went with the original Samsung will probably not be applicable to a whole new PC.
Samsung and MS are the only ones who can determine, and MS will almost certainly just refer you to Samsung.

 

[basroil]

For Windows 7 systems the license key is almost always on the bottom of the computer, or occasionally under the battery.

You can make Win10 install media using the Media Creation Tool at the microsoft website. Just make sure to use the correct version for your system (depends on Win 7 license, either home or pro).

For all intents and purposes that machine is not the original one, and even Windows 7 might refuse to install on it. If the manufacturer or repairer that installed those parts won't help you (which they should), your only real hope is to explain your situation to MS with the key you have on the physical computer case, and hope for the best.

 

[Peter_Austin]

There is a problem with this:

The laptop has new RAM, new SSD, new mainboard, new LCD. The only things that are the same are the keyboard and touchpad, dvd drive... charger...

Then this is a whole new PC. There is no 'license' associated with that hardware.

You must install Win 7, activate it, then do the Upgrade to Win 10.

Thanks,

This is not possible, due to the win 7 installation media being on the failed HDD.

It seems that upgrades to win10 are not given a product key, but instead have the product key stored in UEFI firmware.

Therefore, it is not possible to transfer a product key as any upgraded copy of win 10 does not have a product key to tranfer exactly, only a signature that is recognised and authenticated. It has only a corresponding, "installed key".

Normally, the new, clean installation would activate online as microsoft recognises it, but not in this case.

One solution, as you said, is to perform the upgrade again.
This requires getting hold of win 7 install media, that is on the failed HDD in the samsung recovery partition.

I am hoping that I can install a "clean" win 10 from installation media, skip activation, get to the desktop, and then figure it out...

The license is mine, it is activated. I am not usually acting self-entitled, but in this instance I am entitled to keep using my copy of win10 with a new motherboard!

Thanks for the advice on creating win 10 installation media - I have managed to find this link that shows a few ways to activate windows:
http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/5705-activate-windows-10-a.html

 

[Peter_Austin]

I hate reading product documentation (the font is always so chunky), but it is plain and simple:

Can I reinstall windows 10 after upgrading?

"Yes. Once you’ve upgraded to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer, you will be able to reinstall, including a clean install, on the same device. You won’t need a product key for re-activations on the same hardware. If you make a meaningful change to your hardware, you may need to contact customer support to help with activation. You’ll also be able to create your own installation media, like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded. "

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq


So, clean install windows10 from USB, skip activation, contact MS for help. Roger.

Thanks

(how do i make this the solution..? i cannot pick my own answer as the solution - please will someone repost this post, so that we can mark this thread as solved..?)

 

[USAFRet]

I am hoping that I can install a "clean" win 10 from installation media, skip activation, get to the desktop, and then figure it out...

That won't work. The Win 10 Upgrade knows nothing about this 'new PC'.
The Win 10 Upgrade (from Win 7) stored all your device details back at home base. This would easily allow a full reinstallation on the original hardware (the motherboard)

Those details do not exist for this new PC'.
Really, I think your only option is to reinstall Windows 7, then do the upgrade again.
However...since you have, in effect, a whole new PC, this may be problematical.

Contact Samsung and see what they say about new install media.

 

[Peter_Austin]

I phoned Microsoft tech support and they helped me install win 10 using usb installation media i had created on another pc.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[orlbuckeye]

You were lucky.

Windows 10 will not activate if you don't do an upgrade from a qualifying OS. If you upgrade from an activated OS then Windows 10 becomes activated an doesn't store a key on your PC. It created a unique code called a hash code and it stores that on an MS server. This is why no key is needed for a clean install. the only Keys for windows 10 are the purchased full versions Retail and OEM.

 

[Peter_Austin]

lucky..?

It even says on the official MS site, "if you make a significant change to your hardware, you will have to call customer service"...

That's not luck... it's decent customer service from microsoft.


Your reply doesn't have much to do with the question and certainly doesn't answer it - it is merely confusing noise.
Well done for googling the same thing as everyone else, and reporting it in a way that doesn't help anyone.

I'm out - see ya!

 

[USAFRet]

lucky..?

It even says on the official MS site, "if you make a significant change to your hardware, you will have to call customer service"...

That's not luck... it's decent customer service from microsoft.


Your reply doesn't have much to do with the question and certainly doesn't answer it - it is merely confusing noise.
Well done for googling the same thing as everyone else, and reporting it in a way that doesn't help anyone.

I'm out - see ya!

You were 'lucky', in the sense that the original OS on the laptop was licensed to the original motherboard. Except in cases of an actual broken motherboard and replacement, reuse of that particular license is not a given, nor is it automatic.
Usually, for an OEM license, Microsoft will refer you back to the manufacturer to sort out licensing issues.

 

[orlbuckeye]

Thats why it's better for the OEM to do the work. I had mobo replaced twice and I didn't have to worry about activation as Dell/Alienware took care of that.