Question Noctua NA-FH1 Fan Hub advice ?

[exspade]

I recently purchased 3 x triple pack of lian li p28 fans alongside with Noctua NA-FH1 fan hub.

I'm using lian li o11d mini case and planning to do 1 rear fan and 3 top fan mounted at AIO for exhaust and 2 side fans and 3 bottom fans for intake. Since I can daisy chain lian li fans, Im planning to daisy chain the 4 exhaust fans to the fan hub and daisy chain 5 intake fans to the fan hub as well.

Is this the correct approach? Once connected to the fan hub, the pwm wire to the CPU_FAN header. (this one im not sure) or the 4 exhaust fans to the CPU_FAN header instead, then the rest is to the CHA_FAN header.

Also I'm not sure in this case I need to connect the sata or not?


I draw some diagram of what I thought would work, would appreciate some feedbacks.

setup A

setup B

 

[Ralston18]

Nice diagrams - very helpful.

However, I will forego a direct "A" or "B" setup answer for the time being.

Two questions:

1) Why so many fans? What is driving the requirement for 11 fans?

2) What are the fan airflow directions?

One concern being that the various fans and airflows may be counterproductive in some manner.

Fans and airflows (controlled or not) not being effective and the system heats up.

Check the applicable documentation for each installed component including the case. For example you may not want to control CPU and cooler fans, May be best left to the system....

There may be an setup answer "C" that would be more suitable and applicable than "A" or "B".

More (as in fans) is not necessarily better.

 

[exspade]

Nice diagrams - very helpful.

However, I will forego a direct "A" or "B" setup answer for the time being.

Two questions:

1) Why so many fans? What is driving the requirement for 11 fans?

2) What are the fan airflow directions?

One concern being that the various fans and airflows may be counterproductive in some manner.

Fans and airflows (controlled or not) not being effective and the system heats up.

Check the applicable documentation for each installed component including the case. For example you may not want to control CPU and cooler fans, May be best left to the system....

There may be an setup answer "C" that would be more suitable and applicable than "A" or "B".

More (as in fans) is not necessarily better.

1) Its 9 fans, because I have the budget for it and would want sufficient airflow in my case.

2) Basically exhaust fans are the ones in the rear and on the AIO mount. While intake fans would be on the side and bottom fans.

 

[Ralston18]

My thoughts:

1) 9 fans should be a technical requirement for specific cooling purposes. Not because you can afford ("have the budget") for more fans. 7 fans could be sufficient and just as effective - and possibly more so.

The fans' respective airflows could be interferring each other.

Plus if you intend to be controlling it all then that is all the more reason to be careful about fans, airflow directions, and so forth. All too easy to make some control error of omission or commission. Or have some seemingly workable configuration in place that is actually going to result in a future problem.

2) Are those fan locations supported by the build: case and other components?

Remember that warmer air rises and that the various fans and airflow directions could either negate cooling effects or even interfere with cooling.

Do some testing. Determine what gets warm, too warm, or even hot and then focus on fixing that specific problem with respect to fan controls, more fans, and fan placement.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

planning to daisy chain the 4 exhaust fans to the fan hub and daisy chain 5 intake fans to the fan hub as well.

Is this the correct approach?

AIO fans should be daisy-chained and going directly to the CPU_FAN header,
using their own fan speed curve profile based on CPU temperature.

rear exhaust should be using a single CHA_FAN header,
using it's own curve profile based on GPU temp.

bottom intake should be daisy-chained sharing a single CHA_FAN header,
using their own curve profile based on GPU temp.

front/side intake should be using a single CHA_FAN header,
using their own curve profile based on CPU temp.

you don't want all fans sharing the same temperature curve profile.
the CPU_FAN fans should be running quite a bit faster than all others,
intake and exhaust fans should be specified separately to keep components cooler but also to keep noise down as much as possible,
you want a bit more positive pressure but since you have so many more intake than exhaust they can still run at pretty low RPMs until the CPU & GPU really start to heat up.

there's no need for a fan hub in this setup at all.
unless for some reason this motherboard is lacking fan headers, then it would need to be setup a bit differently.

 

[exspade]

My thoughts:

1) 9 fans should be a technical requirement for specific cooling purposes. Not because you can afford ("have the budget") for more fans. 7 fans could be sufficient and just as effective - and possibly more so.

The fans' respective airflows could be interferring each other.

Plus if you intend to be controlling it all then that is all the more reason to be careful about fans, airflow directions, and so forth. All too easy to make some control error of omission or commission. Or have some seemingly workable configuration in place that is actually going to result in a future problem.

2) Are those fan locations supported by the build: case and other components?

Remember that warmer air rises and that the various fans and airflow directions could either negate cooling effects or even interfere with cooling.

Do some testing. Determine what gets warm, too warm, or even hot and then focus on fixing that specific problem with respect to fan controls, more fans, and fan placement.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Appreciate your thoughts,

1) Yup I'm planning to control by using fan curve in the bios, basically the idea is for the side and bottom as intake then being pushed by the exhaust fans from the rear and top mount. In terms of adequacy, im not really sure. Need to see what happens. I open a thread is mainly my concern of "am i connecting everything right?" like the connection between wires and such.

2) Yes the fan locations is supported on my case, im using lian li o11d mini.

 

[exspade]

AIO fans should be daisy-chained and going directly to the CPU_FAN header,
using their own fan speed curve profile based on CPU temperature.

rear exhaust should be using a single CHA_FAN header,
using it's own curve profile based on GPU temp.

bottom intake should be daisy-chained sharing a single CHA_FAN header,
using their own curve profile based on GPU temp.

front/side intake should be using a single CHA_FAN header,
using their own curve profile based on CPU temp.

you don't want all fans sharing the same temperature curve profile.
the CPU_FAN fans should be running quite a bit faster than all others,
intake and exhaust fans should be specified separately to keep components cooler but also to keep noise down as much as possible,
you want a bit more positive pressure but since you have so many more intake than exhaust they can still run at pretty low RPMs until the CPU & GPU really start to heat up.

there's no need for a fan hub in this setup at all.
unless for some reason this motherboard is lacking fan headers, then it would need to be setup a bit differently.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

I see, I didn't know running all the fans on the same curve would be bad. I thought when connecting all the daisy chained fans to the PWM hub and the PWM hub wire to the CPU_FAN header would make all the fans spin on whatever RPM based on the cpu temp if im not setting any fan curve, or thats not the case here?

An yeah I forgot to include my motherboard model in the post. I'm using an ITX motherboard (b650e-i) which only have like 1 CPU_FAN, 1 AIO_PUMP and 1 CHA_FAN. There's not much room to work on.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

using lian li o11d mini...
using an ITX motherboard (b650e-i)

do you already have these items?

if not, you'll be better off using an ATX motherboard with better VRM cooling, better RAM and PCIe placement, and more options for fans & storage.

 

[Paperdoc]

Just to reinforce JohnBonhamsGhost above. Every mobo has at least TWO VERY similar fan control systems. Each concentrates on an actual sensor reading of the TEMPERATURE of the device to be cooled and manipulates the speed signal sent to its fans to keep that temp on target. The key difference is that one system (The CPU_FAN header and some related ones) is based on temp inside the CPU chip with its own sensor built in, and the other (SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN) uses a different sensor on the mobo. On some mobos there MAY be options for those latter headers to use other added sensors on specific mobo components, and these are useful IF you want to dedicate one fan to a particular mobo part. It is not common for a mobo to have access to the temperature inside the GPU chip, but possible AND such a feature MAY be available in software supplied by the video card maker.

Change your focus. Do not concentrate on intake versus exhaust. Class the fans by WHAT they are cooling. Fans to cool the CPU (those on the AIO rad) need to be connected to the CPU_FAN header. IF your mobo has a CPU_OPT header also, you can use that because it is merely a copy of CPU_FAN. The PUMP of the AIO system generally should be connected to CPU_FAN, or possibly to a AIO_PUMP header if your mobo has that. This is to ensure use of a second important feature of that header - detecting pump FAILURE by failing to receive a speed signal from it.

Generally all CASE VENTILATION fans should be controlled by SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN headers that base their actions of the mobo temp sensor. IF your mobo offers in the options for that type of header a choice to use the temp sensor on the video card, go ahead as JohnBonhamsGhost recommended above. Or, if you have a software tool in the utility that came with your video card to use the GPU temp for controlling case vent fans, try that for fans close to the video card.

 

[exspade]

do you already have these items?

if not, you'll be better off using an ATX motherboard with better VRM cooling, better RAM and PCIe placement, and more options for fans & storage.

Yes, I already have these items at hand. Just the fans and controller is coming in a few days.

 

[exspade]

Just to reinforce JohnBonhamsGhost above. Every mobo has at least TWO VERY similar fan control systems. Each concentrates on an actual sensor reading of the TEMPERATURE of the device to be cooled and manipulates the speed signal sent to its fans to keep that temp on target. The key difference is that one system (The CPU_FAN header and some related ones) is based on temp inside the CPU chip with its own sensor built in, and the other (SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN) uses a different sensor on the mobo. On some mobos there MAY be options for those latter headers to use other added sensors on specific mobo components, and these are useful IF you want to dedicate one fan to a particular mobo part. It is not common for a mobo to have access to the temperature inside the GPU chip, but possible AND such a feature MAY be available in software supplied by the video card maker.

Change your focus. Do not concentrate on intake versus exhaust. Class the fans by WHAT they are cooling. Fans to cool the CPU (those on the AIO rad) need to be connected to the CPU_FAN header. IF your mobo has a CPU_OPT header also, you can use that because it is merely a copy of CPU_FAN. The PUMP of the AIO system generally should be connected to CPU_FAN, or possibly to a AIO_PUMP header if your mobo has that. This is to ensure use of a second important feature of that header - detecting pump FAILURE by failing to receive a speed signal from it.

Generally all CASE VENTILATION fans should be controlled by SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN headers that base their actions of the mobo temp sensor. IF your mobo offers in the options for that type of header a choice to use the temp sensor on the video card, go ahead as JohnBonhamsGhost recommended above. Or, if you have a software tool in the utility that came with your video card to use the GPU temp for controlling case vent fans, try that for fans close to the video card.

My mobo only have 1 CPU_FAN, AIO_PUMP and CHA_FAN. So I have decided to route the 3 top mount fans direct to the CPU_FAN header, while the 1 rear, 2 side and 3 bottom fans connect to the PWM hub and the PWM cable to the CHA_FAN, and ofcourse the AIO pump cable to the AIO_PUMP.

What do you think of this approach? Also is it best to set fan curve for the CPU_FAN or let it set to AUTO?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

is it best to set fan curve for the CPU_FAN or let it set to AUTO?

i would always set mine with a custom fan curve.

for the CPU i usually start with
25% @ 30°
40% @ 40°
60% @ 50°
85% @ 60°
95% @ 75°
and adjust from there until i get a good range with minimal noise.

usually aiming for ~35°C at idle
and ~65°C at max with very demanding games.

just experiment with fan curves until you find the best outcome for yourself.

mobo only have 1 CPU_FAN, AIO_PUMP and CHA_FAN...
...What do you think of this approach?

given the limited options you have, this would probably be the best option.

you already have the cooler and it's pump definitely uses a PWM header?
if so, this header should be set to 100% at all times. if the AIO_PUMP isn't auto-set that way anyway.

 

[Paperdoc]

Fan headers have several options in BIOS Setup, but two of them get confusing.

The PROFILE setting is how the header decides what speed to set for what temperature as reported by its sensor. It is the "strategy". Options normally include Standard or Normal (the default "fan curve" set by the maker), Turbo (fixed full speed), Quiet (fixed slow speed), and Manual or Custom (allows YOU to set your own "fan curve"). Many consider the Standard to be the default "Automatic" control setting.

Separately there now is a setting for MODE, which is the METHOD (or type of electrical signals) sent to the fan to achieve whatever the Strategy has decided. Options here normally include PWM (for 4-pin fans) or Voltage or DC for 3-pin fans. But also many include here "Auto", which MAY appear to mean "normal automatic temperature control strategy". But that is NOT what this "Auto" means. This option has the header on every boot-up TEST the fan to determine whether it should use 4-pin PMW Mode or 3-pin Voltage Control Mode. Basically it assumes PWM Mode and sends out a signal for the fan to start at full speed, then notes what that speed is. It then sends out a signal for some much lower speed. IF the fan speed does actually drop, then this must be a 4-pin fan and the MODE is already correct. IF the fan speed does NOT drop off, then this must be a 3-pin fan, and the header changes its own MODE setting to Voltage Control Mode and uses reduced voltage to force the fan to slow down to what the Profile (strategy) has decided.

So the "Auto" setting for MODE is handy of you don't want to figure out the setting for yourself. But some people misunderstand and think that is the correct way to set the default PROFILE "fan curve".

The "Auto" MODE option also causes a different problem that is NOT one that OP would have in this case. In some systems with AIO cooling one needs to connect both the PUMP and the RAD FANS to the CPU_FAN header. When that is done with a Splitter it is important to have the PUMP connected so that its speed is the one sent to the CPU_FAN header, so that the header can monitor that speed signal for possible FAILURE. BUT the pump is wired just like an older 3-pin fan, so IF this connection system is being used and the CPU_FAN setting for MODE is set to "Auto", the header will discover that its "fan" is 3-pin and use Voltage Control Mode to slow the PUMP down. Almost all AIO system want that pump to run at full speed all the time, so this can severely reduce the performance of the system. The solution in this set of circumstances is to set the CPU_FAN header to PWM Mode. When that is done, the PUMP will always run full speed, but the RAD FANS always are the newer 4-pin variety and their speeds WILL be controlled properly by that signal system.

OP, I have no doubt that your AIO system has 4-pin PWM style fans on the rad, so this issue will NOT affect you when they are connected to the CPU_FAN header. Your PUMP, if you connect to the AIO_PUMP header as you plan, will be fed the constant full 12 VDC power supply it needs to run properly, too, because that header normally does NOT allow its output signal to call for slow speed for a PUMP.

 

[exspade]

i would always set mine with a custom fan curve.

for the CPU i usually start with
25% @ 30°
40% @ 40°
60% @ 50°
85% @ 60°
95% @ 75°
and adjust from there until i get a good range with minimal noise.

usually aiming for ~35°C at idle
and ~65°C at max with very demanding games.

just experiment with fan curves until you find the best outcome for yourself.


given the limited options you have, this would probably be the best option.

you already have the cooler and it's pump definitely uses a PWM header?
if so, this header should be set to 100% at all times. if the AIO_PUMP isn't auto-set that way anyway.

From the looks of it yes in my AIO manual says its PWM 4pin, AIO im using is from EKWB CR360 (non-rgb).

Based on the manual the AIO_PUMP header is full speed.

 

[exspade]

Fan headers have several options in BIOS Setup, but two of them get confusing.

The PROFILE setting is how the header decides what speed to set for what temperature as reported by its sensor. It is the "strategy". Options normally include Standard or Normal (the default "fan curve" set by the maker), Turbo (fixed full speed), Quiet (fixed slow speed), and Manual or Custom (allows YOU to set your own "fan curve"). Many consider the Standard to be the default "Automatic" control setting.

Separately there now is a setting for MODE, which is the METHOD (or type of electrical signals) sent to the fan to achieve whatever the Strategy has decided. Options here normally include PWM (for 4-pin fans) or Voltage or DC for 3-pin fans. But also many include here "Auto", which MAY appear to mean "normal automatic temperature control strategy". But that is NOT what this "Auto" means. This option has the header on every boot-up TEST the fan to determine whether it should use 4-pin PMW Mode or 3-pin Voltage Control Mode. Basically it assumes PWM Mode and sends out a signal for the fan to start at full speed, then notes what that speed is. It then sends out a signal for some much lower speed. IF the fan speed does actually drop, then this must be a 4-pin fan and the MODE is already correct. IF the fan speed does NOT drop off, then this must be a 3-pin fan, and the header changes its own MODE setting to Voltage Control Mode and uses reduced voltage to force the fan to slow down to what the Profile (strategy) has decided.

So the "Auto" setting for MODE is handy of you don't want to figure out the setting for yourself. But some people misunderstand and think that is the correct way to set the default PROFILE "fan curve".

The "Auto" MODE option also causes a different problem that is NOT one that OP would have in this case. In some systems with AIO cooling one needs to connect both the PUMP and the RAD FANS to the CPU_FAN header. When that is done with a Splitter it is important to have the PUMP connected so that its speed is the one sent to the CPU_FAN header, so that the header can monitor that speed signal for possible FAILURE. BUT the pump is wired just like an older 3-pin fan, so IF this connection system is being used and the CPU_FAN setting for MODE is set to "Auto", the header will discover that its "fan" is 3-pin and use Voltage Control Mode to slow the PUMP down. Almost all AIO system want that pump to run at full speed all the time, so this can severely reduce the performance of the system. The solution in this set of circumstances is to set the CPU_FAN header to PWM Mode. When that is done, the PUMP will always run full speed, but the RAD FANS always are the newer 4-pin variety and their speeds WILL be controlled properly by that signal system.

OP, I have no doubt that your AIO system has 4-pin PWM style fans on the rad, so this issue will NOT affect you when they are connected to the CPU_FAN header. Your PUMP, if you connect to the AIO_PUMP header as you plan, will be fed the constant full 12 VDC power supply it needs to run properly, too, because that header normally does NOT allow its output signal to call for slow speed for a PUMP.

Thanks doc, good read.

Yes by default the AIO i ordered is from EKWB CR360 (non-rgb) came with 3 rad fans attached but im not sure if its a PWM or not in this case because in the manual it only says 4pin. But for the pump cable is a 4pin PWM. However, I will not be using the default 3 fans that came with the AIO. I'll be switching it with lian-li fans p28, they should support a 4pin PWM right? which ill attached them to the CPU_FAN header, while the pump goes to the AIO_PUMP header.

Yup the AIO pump will run full speed as per mention in my mobo manual.

 

[Paperdoc]

All correct. And yes, the Lian Li fans are the 4-pin PWM style. However, one note with them. The set of fans comes with a small box in the wires to the fans that is for "speed control". This is to be used ONLY if you do NOT have any other way to control fan speed, and that is NOT your situation. So do one of two things. IF that little control box can NOT be connected into the fan wires, do not use it. IF it is permanently wired in, set it always to FULL speed so it does NOT try to reduce fan Voltage and slow them down. Your mobo fan header will do ALL the fan speed control needed without any interference from that box.

 

[exspade]

All correct. And yes, the Lian Li fans are the 4-pin PWM style. However, one note with them. The set of fans comes with a small box in the wires to the fans that is for "speed control". This is to be used ONLY if you do NOT have any other way to control fan speed, and that is NOT your situation. So do one of two things. IF that little control box can NOT be connected into the fan wires, do not use it. IF it is permanently wired in, set it always to FULL speed so it does NOT try to reduce fan Voltage and slow them down. Your mobo fan header will do ALL the fan speed control needed without any interference from that box.

Alright got it, thanks doc!