Question Numerous BSOD throughout my workday

[KD0631]

Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully assist!

I counted I think 5 crashes just within an hour this morning and after that I stopped counting. 3 of those crashes happened without a blue screen - Screens just went black and rebooted. This is on my work build and it's been having BSOD issues for quite some time now. Probably 15+ crashes/8 hour day and it's likely raising my blood pressure, so I decided to hop on here and hope someone can find the answer.

The crashes happen completely randomly. I could be on chrome, in photoshop, in a game, even doing nothing at all not even moving the mouse.

Here is my build:
http://speccy.piriform.com/results/EPTzVQ7mnApaH6yrGb3pTuC
I normally have 2x16GB of RAM but I am currently only using 1x hoping to see an improvement which I've not seen.

Here is what I've tried so far (not in chronological order):
Reinstalled Windows
Made sure all Windows Updates are installed
Installed latest BIOS
Installed latest chipset from manufacture site
Physically went through every item on Device Manager and hit "Update Driver/Search Automatically"
Reseated everything
Installed new PSU (Microsoft Forums guy suggested this)
Tried a different GPU
Tried both sticks of RAM, tried only 1, swapped them around, tried different slots with both and only 1
Ran Windows Memory Diagnostics (found nothing)
Ran the sfc /scannow command as admin
Ran check disk
Ran DDU for GPU drivers and installed latest
Disabled Bluetooth drivers (to see if it was the culprit)
Disabled Audio drivers incase they were conflicting
Uninstalled Logitech software
I didn't have Malware Bytes until recently and don't use anything other than Windows Defender, so it's not an Antivirus
... I want to say I've done more but I can't think of what they were, it's been so long since I've been trying to figure this out now.

If anyone would like to try their hand at this, I'd be infinitely appreciative. Just let me know how I can assist and I'd be more than happy to do so. Thanks.

** Update before I even post this - As I'm currently looking at the Device Manager after I typed all this, it's got the yellow flag on the Processor and those were never present until now.

 

[Colif]

Install win 10 on the ssd with no other drives attached (win 10 might add the new install to old and that won't help) and see if you get any errors. That is best test.
If it works fine, have to think its the NVME, or maybe its slot on mb, could try the other slot.
If you still get errors, we can probably assume its not the drive and something else.

If its something else (the unknown something) I would suggest getting PC looked at by a store. cause I don't think its ram, if it does it on a few drives, its not the drives... either mb or cpu or PSU at that stage. Need known working spares, repair stores should have those.

is there anything attached to pc like external drives or speakers or anything that doesn't really need to be attached?

 

[KD0631]

Install win 10 on the ssd with no other drives attached (win 10 might add the new install to old and that won't help) and see if you get any errors. That is best test.
If it works fine, have to think its the NVME, or maybe its slot on mb, could try the other slot.
If you still get errors, we can probably assume its not the drive and something else.

If its something else (the unknown something) I would suggest getting PC looked at by a store. cause I don't think its ram, if it does it on a few drives, its not the drives... either mb or cpu or PSU at that stage. Need known working spares, repair stores should have those.

is there anything attached to pc like external drives or speakers or anything that doesn't really need to be attached?

Alright I'll try to install on the ssd and see how it goes. Hopefully it's not the nvme slot because the other slot is buried under my GPU. Not sure how that would go.

Also, the processors aren't flagged anymore in device manager after this fresh install, so that's a plus.

There is nothing else attached. I even made sure to unplug any unnecessary USB items. Only the mouse + keyboard.

 

[Colif]

hope its not them.

so windows partially works better than it did before.

had any BSOD since install finished?
wonder what this would find
right click start button
choose powershell (admin)
type SFC /scannow and press enter
once its completed, copy/paste this command into same window:
Repair-WindowsImage -Online -RestoreHealth
and press enter

SFC fixes system files, second command cleans image files, re run SFC if it failed to fix all files and restart PC
see how good Windows is on NVME.

 

[KD0631]

hope its not them.

so windows partially works better than it did before.

had any BSOD since install finished?
wonder what this would find
right click start button
choose powershell (admin)
type SFC /scannow and press enter
once its completed, copy/paste this command into same window:
Repair-WindowsImage -Online -RestoreHealth
and press enter

SFC fixes system files, second command cleans image files, re run SFC if it failed to fix all files and restart PC
see how good Windows is on NVME.

Edit: I have had bsod's since this fresh install. Doesn't seem to be as often as before, but still have them. I did configure for dump files if you'd like me to post them again.

I ran the first command in cmd prompt as admin yesterday and it did say it fixed corrupted files. I didn't do it in powershell and I didn't do the 2nd command.

After running it again in powershell, it said the same thing again "Found corrupt files and successfully repaired them."

 

[Colif]

don't install now if you don't want to. Do it when you want to, if you have other things you want/need to do..

at least its an ssd, install process only takes 20 minutes if it goes smooth. hope it does and the problem is the nvme even though it tests fine... i seen it.

 

[KD0631]

don't install now if you don't want to. Do it when you want to, if you have other things you want/need to do..

at least its an ssd, install process only takes 20 minutes if it goes smooth. hope it does and the problem is the nvme even though it tests fine... i seen it.

I ran the sfc command in powershell again after rebooting and it didn't find any corrupt files this time. Progress!

I think I'm going to start installing the rest of my programs so I can get back to work and I guess just see what happens.

I set a reminder to check back in here in a week to mark this as solved if everything runs smoothly until then.

 

[KD0631]

One last question for now, I've read that you shouldn't Optimize/Defrag SSDs - Is the same true for NVMe drives? Should I turn off the automatic schedule for those particular drives?

 

[Colif]

windows is smart enough to know not to defrag an nvme. Just leave it as is.

long answer - https://www.hanselman.com/blog/the-real-and-complete-story-does-windows-defragment-your-ssd

 

[KD0631]

windows is smart enough to know not to defrag an nvme. Just leave it as is.

long answer - https://www.hanselman.com/blog/the-real-and-complete-story-does-windows-defragment-your-ssd

Awesome. Thank you, Colif. I'm trying to hold my shower of appreciation until next week, so... get ready, m8. The forecast shows it may get wet. /enddadjoke

 

[KD0631]

So it still ended up crashing several times on the NVMe. Tried it out on the SSD and it ended up crashing eventually as well. Multiple times.

So you think the best course of action at this point is just to take it to a shop and let them test it with known working parts and see if it's the mobo or cpu? I'm fairly certain it's not the psu since I just recently replaced that with a brand new one. I feel like the chances of 2 new psu's both being bad is slim.

 

[Bob.B]

So it still ended up crashing several times on the NVMe. Tried it out on the SSD and it ended up crashing eventually as well. Multiple times.

So you think the best course of action at this point is just to take it to a shop and let them test it with known working parts and see if it's the mobo or cpu? I'm fairly certain it's not the psu since I just recently replaced that with a brand new one. I feel like the chances of 2 new psu's both being bad is slim.

Just a wag.
Take the machine out of tablet mode.

 

[KD0631]

Just a wag.
Take the machine out of tablet mode.

I've already scheduled to drop it off at a local shop tomorrow. I've thrown in the towel after sinking countless hours (well before I started this thread) into this. Just going to haul my personal tower to and from work for a few days and hopefully my local professionals can pinpoint the issue.

I'll be sure to learn what the culprit is and update you all.

 

[KD0631]

Well after a week and a half at the shop, the guy checked all the hardware and said everything checked out good. He reinstalled windows on the nvme drive and had the same problems I did. Installed it on one of his SSDs and said he ran it for a day without crashes. So even though the drive showed it was functioning correctly, he determined it was the culprit.

Installing windows on a new 870 EVO as we speak. Not taking any chances incase the nvme port itself is faulty. Here goes nothing 🤞

 

[Colif]

We knew it was something to do with storage, perhaps the spare drive you also tried wasn't as good as you hoped.

fingers crossed this fixes it

 

[KD0631]

aaaaand its crashing. 3x now. I called the guy back and he said its gotta be a short or bio issue or something. All I did was remove the nvme drive, installed the new ssd, didn't touch anything else or change anything in the bio, installed windows from a brand new thumb drive... I just don't know. Doesnt make sense that he had success with a ssd vs nvme and I don't. There's no way this brand new evo is faulty, I mean what could be the chances of that.

 

[Colif]

the odds are always the same. The chances may vary but there is always a chance the new item won't work.

I had 2 problems with last pc and both ended up being peripherals so I am sitting here wondering if its something you plugged into pc when you got it home. I had a shop look at my pc last time, it worked for 2 days under stress tests, and was fine until I got it home and plugged in my mouse and problems happened again.

He should have installed win 10 for you. Made sure it worked. Removed any chances. Ask him to do it this time.

 

[KD0631]

the odds are always the same. The chances may vary but there is always a chance the new item won't work.

I had 2 problems with last pc and both ended up being peripherals so I am sitting here wondering if its something you plugged into pc when you got it home. I had a shop look at my pc last time, it worked for 2 days under stress tests, and was fine until I got it home and plugged in my mouse and problems happened again.

He should have installed win 10 for you. Made sure it worked. Removed any chances. Ask him to do it this time.

Yeah he said to leave the new SSD in it when I bring it so I'll let him do that. But I've been bringing my personal pc to and from work and plugging in all the same peripherals that would normally be plugged into this tower. Is it possible one of them could still somehow hinder or corrupt an install process?

 

[KD0631]

Yeah he said to leave the new SSD in it when I bring it so I'll let him do that. But I've been bringing my personal pc to and from work and plugging in all the same peripherals that would normally be plugged into this tower. Is it possible one of them could still somehow hinder or corrupt an install process?

For today and all previous installs, I've only ever had my mouse (logitech g900) and keyboard (logitech g213) plugged in. Tried ethernet and no ethernet and neither made a difference, so the only fixed items were the m+k.

 

[Colif]

Its getting down to how a motherboard is wired now and tbh I don't know. I know that a dying mouse can stop GPU drivers from loading, but i don't know if a dying usb item can do anything to a NVME. GPU & NVME both use PCIe now, and USB is linked to it in some way, via a controller chip maybe. So its possible but I have never run into anyone else who has had a similar problem to what I did. I have suggested it (like above) as only cause 2 times on last install I had weird problems, and both ended up being things I plugged into PC, not actually inside it. (well, at least until final week when the gpu died)

 

[KD0631]

Its getting down to how a motherboard is wired now and tbh I don't know. I know that a dying mouse can stop GPU drivers from loading, but i don't know if a dying usb item can do anything to a NVME. GPU & NVME both use PCIe now, and USB is linked to it in some way, via a controller chip maybe. So its possible but I have never run into anyone else who has had a similar problem to what I did. I have suggested it (like above) as only cause 2 times on last install I had weird problems, and both ended up being things I plugged into PC, not actually inside it. (well, at least until final week when the gpu died)

I've never heard of a dying mouse before. I usually replace my mouse once one of the clicks start to deteriorate. I've never had a mouse or keyboard die on me. This particular one is a wireless with wired capability and I always keep it plugged in - Not a fan of wireless m+k.

I'm doing another fresh install with one of those cheapo basic mice and no keyboard right now just to trial. Gotta leave in 10 minutes though so not sure how far I'll get.

 

[Colif]

Well, I had a Steelseries Sensei mouse that was 9 years old. I had contemplated replacing it in the past and never found anything I liked. I was a little sad when I had to upgrade it but I had no choice, random restarts of GPU drivers leading to a restart since the default drivers in win 10 can't run a 4k screen well, vs replace my mouse. I ended up getting one that is almost same shape from Steelseries so no harm done. what i have now - Rival 600

I prefer wired too as don't need to recharge them after. I have had wireless mice/kb before but I prefer wired.

it might not be USB but at least you trying all the chances.
both things that caused my problems on last PC were due for retirement, one was a set of speakers that were 14 years old, and another was the mouse. Right now, the oldest part of my setup is my speakers again but they are only about 4 years old now.

 

[Uncodable]

Well, I had a Steelseries Sensei mouse that was 9 years old. I had contemplated replacing it in the past and never found anything I liked. I was a little sad when I had to upgrade it but I had no choice, random restarts of GPU drivers leading to a restart since the default drivers in win 10 can't run a 4k screen well, vs replace my mouse. I ended up getting one that is almost same shape from Steelseries so no harm done. what i have now - Rival 600

I prefer wired too as don't need to recharge them after. I have had wireless mice/kb before but I prefer wired.

it might not be USB but at least you trying all the chances.

How did you conclude a dying mouse led to restarts of GPU drivers? I would've never figured that.

 

[KD0631]

Well, I had a Steelseries Sensei mouse that was 9 years old. I had contemplated replacing it in the past and never found anything I liked. I was a little sad when I had to upgrade it but I had no choice, random restarts of GPU drivers leading to a restart since the default drivers in win 10 can't run a 4k screen well, vs replace my mouse. I ended up getting one that is almost same shape from Steelseries so no harm done. what i have now - Rival 600

I prefer wired too as don't need to recharge them after. I have had wireless mice/kb before but I prefer wired.

it might not be USB but at least you trying all the chances.

This time it just froze, no bsod. I had just finished setting my pin # with the on-screen keyboard. I did notice a short, almost scratch-like sound from the monitor speakers with each number I clicked and that didnt happen when I was typing in my microsoft login, but figured it was just audio feedback that buttons were pressed since i was using the on-screen keyboard? Now I'm totally lost.

 

[Colif]

give it back to shop and let him fix it. Make him test it for a few days to make sure its fine.

The USB conclusion came after 3 months of trying everything else. It was only in hindsight I remembered I heard a USB d/c noise the first time screen turned off. Problem stopped happening as soon as I swapped mice. I didn't understand why until someone else explained the connection between PCIE and usb.

 

[Uncodable]

give it back to shop and let him fix it.

The USB conclusion came after 3 months of trying everything else. It was only in hindsight I remembered I heard a USB d/c noise the first time screen turned off.

I guess I'll use your experiences whenever I help people with bug checks. That's really bizarre for a mouse to be causing problems with GPU drivers though, but just about anything is possible with Windows.