NV40 16 pipes

[ecar016]

can someone please suggest if Nvidia will have superior performance with this configuration?? Any repercussions with 16 pipes and Nvidia's PCI express bridge chip VS ATI's R423 8x2 pipes and a native PCI express chip?????

EC

comments please

sorry here is the link to read:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14373

<font color=red> Quantum Computers! - very interesting </font color=red>

 

[Vimp]

Assuming both have simelar core speeds the 16x1 design is potentially far superior to the 8x2 design. Just as we saw with this last generation of cards where ATI had a 8x1 design while Nvidia had a 4x2 desgin, now we're seeing the companies switch roles.
Just as 8x1 and 4x2 designs both allow for the same texel fill rates, like wise 16x1 and 8x2 will also allow for the same texel fill rates. However ATI had far better pixel fill rates then Nvidia with this last gen of cards because ATI's 8x1 design allows for twice the pixel fill rates of Nvidia's 4x2 design. But now its going to be Nvidia having twice the pixel fill rates over the ATI cards since it has twice as many pixel pipelines. It would seem Nvidia skipped the 8 pipe design altogether and went from 4 to 16 while ATI remained at 8 for two generations of cards. However fill rates arn't the end-all be-all of the performance crown. But, it will certainly give the Nvidia cards that much more potential for being the performance leader this time around. And I would imagine that Nvidia's mainstream cards this year may actually have a 8 pipe design to it which would be pretty dang nice.

As far as pixel fill rates and texel fill rates go, my understanding of it is that every game relies to varying degrees on each. Which would mean games that rely far more on texel fill rates compared to pixel fill rates will benifit lesss from Nvidia's having twice the pixel pipelines then that of ATI's cards. Where as when it comes to games where theres a greater demand on the pixel fill rates in comparison, the Nvidia cards would do that much better then ATI's cards. However other factors will play a part in all of this too. Nvidia's having twice the pipelines won't be of much benifit if its cards don't know how to make use of it as efficiently as ATI's cards make use of its 8 pipelines for instance. All this really means is that Nvidia's cards are potentially a fair bit better then ATI's in this upcoming generation of cards.

<font color=blue>_____________________________________</font color=blue>
Canada
Asus A7N8X-X, Athelon XP 2500+ Barton,
Samsung 1024mb DDR400, MSI GeforceFX5900 XT.
Aquamark=<b>34702</b>

 

[Ion]

Not sure if it is relevant, but would higher pixel fill rate boost Nvidia's useless DX9 shaders? :tongue:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Xp 2500+(3200+), 512MB RAM, HIS Radeon 9500Pro

 

[Vimp]

I don't really know. However I would think that a good pixel fill rate would be very usefull in terms of better performing DX9 effects since to my understanding DX9 effects are based heavily if not entirely on pixel shaders. That sounds to me like it means it makes paticularly high usage of pixels over texels which would mean a high pixel fill rate would be paticularly usefull in such a case. So summing that up...I think a higher pixel fillrate contributes greatly to better DX9 performance from what I can tell.

<font color=blue>_____________________________________</font color=blue>
Canada
Asus A7N8X-X, Athelon XP 2500+ Barton,
Samsung 1024mb DDR400, MSI GeforceFX5900 XT.
Aquamark=<b>34702</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Vimp on 02/26/04 05:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[coolsquirtle]

They are so going to rebuild their shaders, there's no way they're using that POS from the FXs

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy

 

[GeneticWeapon]

People that I believe know alot about the industry at first scoffed about the NV40/16 pipe theory...it was even said over at rage3d that 8 of the 16 pipes on NV40 were crack pipes
But after re-checking some of the post's that I felt were from reputables sources, I believe we're in for one hell of a shock in this latest chapter of the graphics wars.

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2106920" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[Ion]

I think i saw a Nvidia timeline somewhere that indicates the close relationship between NV30ish to 40ish...and nvidia wouldn't start doing new design till NV50... :frown:

PS. personally i think 16 pipes is a pretty good marketing tool. :tongue:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Xp 2500+(3200+), 512MB RAM, HIS Radeon 9500Pro

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah the interesting thing is that nV said that the DX9.1 (now 9.0C) update would improve the FX's Xx2 architecture (by addressing wait states IIRC), and thus getting the most out of their design. The funny thing is that if this is the case then they abandoned ship just as it was happening. However it is more likely that they did early testing of any pre-release version of DX9C (or their own testing), and found that they didn't get the benifits that they expected.
So despite early reports last week to the contrary, we may indeed see the Xx2 vs Xx1 showdown we were expecting, only the player will have switched the roles we had expected from them.
All of this really makes me want to see the final products even more than ever. One of the few 'Paper Releases' that I'm almost demanding!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[hogfather]

You guys are talking like its over before its' begun :| I mean you assme that ATi have sat still! I'm sure there are some suprises in there, they've played catch up for years, now they're ahead I dont see them throwing it away.

XP2000, 256ddr 2100ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

 

[JoeB]

I really hope NVidia brings out a great card this time, for it will push ATi to faster produce their products and vice versa. This all is good for us customers because we get lower prices

_____________
whompiedompie

 

[cleeve]

A higher pixel fill rate shouldn't boost shader power, as I understand it.

Shader power comes from separate parts of architecture. It will be especially interesting to see if Nvidia has stayed with the shader arrays VS Ati's shader units, and to see how much more powerful both implementations have become.

I'm also dying to see how the next gen cards will handle AA/AF, and what kinds of quality compromises have been made (if any)...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

No I don't think they've thrown it away, but like we said long before is does mean differences. And nV having the Xx2 arhitecture still was like, well they have alot of experience with that, so I'm sure they'll make it work fine in the NV40 (they kinda hafta make this product much better than the last). But ATI has little experience with that, and it would likely take a combination of drivers and DX9 updates to bring out the fullness of the core based on all that nV said about it in the past.

But one thing to remember is that like stocks and mutuals, "Past Results are no Guarantee/Indicator of Future Performance". The past is the past, and these are new chips, so it could easilty be and R8500->9700 vs a GF4ti->FX5800 situation, with the actual winners to be determined later.

I don't assume anything is over, heck this isn't even PR, this is still just rumour, despite the fact that alot of the rumours are coming from credible sources. I'm not making any final judgements, just speculation and things that make me go Hmmmm!?!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK