renz496 :
jimmysmitty :
edogawa :
jimmysmitty :
The thing I hate about PhysX is that it can all be done on software physics engines such as HavoK which is universal since NVidia doesn't like to let anyone else use PhysX unless its a all NVidia GPU system.
That's just annoying.
Either way already pre-ordered it on Steam and nothing NVidia has right now is worth the cost vs what I already have. I will wait till the next step instead of mostly rehashed stuff.
I see people complain about Physx being Nvidia only all the time, but that is business, you have to differentiate yourself from the competition and be competitive.
There is a difference between being competitive and being proprietary. If they were competitive then they wouldn't have killed the ability to have a AMD GPU as a main with a secondary NVidia GPU for PhysX nor would they have killed off the PhysX hardware in favor of it being used just on their GPUs only.
That's not competitive as there is no other hardware based physics system out there. Its called monopolizing the industry.
I happen to prefer Radeon as I have had better luck with them over GeForce. So why should I instead go with NVidia just for a simple perk that doesn't affect gameplay? I should be able to buy a low end NVidia GPU to throw in as a PhysX card or they should still produce PhysX hardware while the perk for having a NVidia GPU would be that you don't need the add-on card.
Intel bought up HavoK a while ago yet I haven't seen them make it work only on Intel IGPs. That's a sign that NVidia did it wrong.
renz496 :
beta212 :
It's moving in the right direction, but still it's not all the AAA games you get with a radeon card, and considering BF4 will be an amd game... nvidia has to work harder.
Is there problem for nvidia for BF4 to be gaming evolved title?
BF4 is going to be a "Gaming Evolved" title with AMD and is probably going to be part of the Never Settle bundle. Rumor is the Hawaii XT will be revealed this month in Hawaii and will probably be the HD 9000 series, or possibly a new naming series to go along with the BF4 release.
IMO the decision to block physx is just to save themselves from trouble. and at some point a new conspiracy theory might rise up about how nvidia purposely crippling physx performance whenever amd gpu are present in the systewm
. with that lock out people that still want amd + nvidia physx will be forced to use hacked driver. If something goes wrong they can't complain to nvidia about it.
Also about havok on gpu. I know that ps 4 havok physics demo during the device unveil was done on the gpu. If intel was serious making havok to be accelerated by gpu why they did not work with ati and nvidia to help the havok FX initiative before? Why only now? If havok FX was successful we might not be in this situation right now.
HavoK started as a software physics engine. FX is probably new and uses hardware instead. I haven't kept up with it as of late so I don't know much about the HavoK FX line yet.
somebodyspecial :
NV doesn't have to work harder or give away as many free games as AMD. Their drivers WORK out of the box, which is why they have higher margins (near ~58% now), actual PROFITS and own 65% of the discrete market. How else do you explain the market share?
I won't buy a card in the hopes that ONE DAY it will have good drivers for the games I play or the situations the card may be in (CF comes to mind, xp users have no fix yet, and eyefinity still has issues as does enduro). AMD has had almost two years to fix a problem they claim they never knew about (everyone knew about stuttering since multi-gpu came out). They only chose to do something about it seriously once NV cornered them on it. I also believe this would have never happened if they'd have spent the money for CONSOLES on PC's! So, not a lot of love for them these days as it pretty much looks like I'm forced to buy NV just to avoid driver issues. Free games mean nothing and I'll be done with them in weeks or months if I don't already own them. I have to live with your card for 3-4 years (well maybe I don't, but a good 2yrs at least) and the same for your drivers.
Consoles had better sell in huge numbers or all AMD users can expect crap drivers for another gen or two. Note we're only on PHASE 1 so far of their driver fixes. How many phases do AMD users have to suffer through for nearly 2yr old cards? Consoles were a mistake, they should have spent it on PC's or at the very least MOBILE SOCS. They wouldn't have to give away 4+ games to compete and the gpu division might be making a profit. FYI those free games you love made AMD's GPU division make ZERO since they started this crap. You should all be complaining about the free games, as it's costing them R&D efforts (no money to spend on stuff) for drivers, new gpus and new cpus. All of which are suffering due to losses company wide, and breaking even in gpus (which actually made a little money PRE-FREE GAMES-but all gone now).
@joaompp, if the customer wants better power, better heat, perf/watt and better drivers they go NV. Thanks for making the point. Translating your statement, if you want a better card & user experience, buy NV...But if your GPU isn't important take some free games from AMD instead. I'll take the best product always, no matter who makes it. Bundled crap means nothing to me.
Also for the physx whiners, this is no different than AMD attempting to get games optimized via consoles for their hardware. That won't help NV owners will it? Though I think they're DOA anyway, this is the same thing basically. Everyone has to differentiate in some manner or why buy your stuff? Physx, Cuda etc helps sell NV cards. Sadly AMD doesn't have funding to come up with much special tech these days. When you have nothing special you give away free stuff or drop pricing until you make no profits. We're seeing AMD do both unfortunately.
Kepler is far from irrelevant as its about to be sold in mobile socs in quantities GREATER than consoles. Consoles sell 10mil each per year (for their 7-8yr lifespan), though wiiu is way off that and I expect the same for xbox1/ps4 as mobile takes over this time.
We will see more an more devs make html5, opengl, webgl, java etc games and NOT directx (gdc 2013 shows devs running to mobile in droves). Games already optimized for Kepler desktop will be partially optimized for kepler mobile in Q1 already, but I believe in greater numbers once they have a phone version out also with kepler tech (tablet version Q1 or so, phone one Q3 probably). I don't see consoles selling even 10mil each this time per year, but Kepler socs will sell over 20mil units next year.
It's not anti-competitive to have special features for your hardware. I don't see Intel allowing every tom dick and harry company to make x86. You win one of two ways in business. Do something better than the other guy, or do something the other guy CAN'T do. Considering they are all competing with the same die size, materials etc limits, your best option is to come up with tech after tech that the other guy can't duplicate and get it as supported in your industry as you can. That is called a recipe for success (Wintel has had this for 20-30yrs). Office+windows+x86 made them both kings and of course R&D from both helps even more.
http://bf4central.com/2013/04/battlefield-4-optimized-pc-graphic/
Rest assured BF4 will run fine on NV hardware (as all other games do for both). Do people really buy a card for ONE game?...LOL. I plan on playing 100+ games over the life of my next card (most likely 20nm maxwell whenever it hits).
"DICE’s Patrick Bach said in an interview that just like BF3, they are working with the likes of Nvidia and AMD to release special drivers just for Battlefield 4."
Shocker...ROFL.
nVidias drivers work out of the box? That's absolutely not true. RAGE had issues on NVidia more than on AMD. AMD was a simple OGL fix and it worked. NVidia had to rush out beta drivers that fixed that and as well texture issues.
Its funny too as it was the other way around not too long ago. I remember when NVidia had driver issues and ATI didn't. I honestly have yet to run into any game issues short of the one for RAGE with any of my GPUs be it NVidia or AMD.
As for PhysX, it wasn't a feature NVidia created or designed just for their GPUs, like the TressFX AMD just released or CUDA or say Quick Sync. It was a hardware based physics system by Ageia that they bought up then killed the hardware part. For a while you could have a AMD GPU with a low-mid end NVidia GPU and it would work as a PhysX card. But NVidia didn't like that so they patched the drivers to stop it.
It was a case of wanting to force people into their GPUs, even if they were not the better choice, just to get a small feature. If it was something they wholly developed then I would understand, just like TressFX or Quick Sync. But since it existed and worked before they should have left it. I am sure they would get more sales since even fans of AMD wouldn't mind the extra PhysX effects.
As for the consoles, those optimizations will not carry over. Both the PS4 and XBOX1 will have very specialized hardware based on current AMD tech but its not the exact same. The 360 used a GPU based on the same design that went into the HD2900 but games still were not optimized for AMD as well as they were on the consoles nor for NVidia with the PS3s RSX based heavily on the GF 7800 series. Then there is the software. The PS4 will have a proprietary OS. The XB1 will have the Windows 8 kernel so that will help but I guarantee we will still see the same issues we always do.
As for micro-stuttering, it wasn't until recent drivers that NVidia did as well as they are on single GPU setups. It was something one reviewer started now all reviewers use it so its the big focus even though the majority of gamers do not use more than one GPU.
It was unkind to all PC's. I didn't know anyone paid for RAGE...ROFL. You site one game both had issues with and even received an apology from one if the best devs in the world ever in history of gaming. I don't count that as either sides problem, rather a game dev mistake. NV has always been good in single setups, and the multigpu setups have been best for quite a while (though I lean heavily on the best single you can get strategy to avoid all the profile problems, stuttering etc). TressFX works fine on NV also. AMD won't garner much in optimizations from the consoles. EA already claiming they are different etc with ignite engine. There will be porting work.
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