nVidia to Refresh in the FALL too.

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

A little while back the <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=405596#405596" target="_new">InQ mentioned</A> that the R480 may be to market earlier than expected. Well it seems that nV has planned a quick refresh too according to Xbit's interpretation of what MyHard.com (sounds like a male enhancement site) posted.

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040706080210.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040706080210.html</A>

New mid-level cards too.


EDIT: <A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20040706163435.html" target="_new">Xbit also mentions</A> that, nV also is denying any production problems, and says that; "We are confident that you will not find an NVIDIA board partner who would say otherwise". Which of course wouldn't be cause they know where there bread is buttered?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 07/06/04 11:50 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[gobeavers]

Noooooooo, I was convinced to buy a 6800 GT. Now I have indecision...

"Go forward until the last round is fired and the last drop of gas is expended...then go forward on foot!" -Patton

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Do you need a graphics card now? Is there a game you can't play or a game you want to play better?

If the answer is yes, then get the GT, it's a solid deal (best of all right now IMO), and likely you would see only very slight improvement next refresh (unless they move to LOW-k/d).

If you can use the features and power of the new card now, then buy it you'll have all that extra time enjoying it which will be worth it compared to the slight boost.

If you don't have much need for it now you could wait for the refresh, but seriously, I doubt the difference in performance will be that dramatic (think FX5900 vs FX5950 or R9800pro versus R9800PRO-256/XT). Once of the biggest advantages of waiting might be getting a GT or Ultra for much less then they are now (since they are so rare at the moment).

And in the end, there will always be another card on the horizon, eventually you have to buy one, just try and buy a card at a price you can live with in that time (I wonder how the 3-4 month old R9800XT/FX5950U owners, who bought before the GF6800 and X800 benchies surfaced, feel about their $500+ cards now?).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[gobeavers]

I am building a new computer soon with an A64, and I wouldn't want to hold it back with the 9600 pro I have now, so I was going to get the GT. I have other uses for the pro anyway. All of my games I would like to play better, but that is due to my 2.0 ghz willamete P4 and SDRAM... Thanks for the input.

"Go forward until the last round is fired and the last drop of gas is expended...then go forward on foot!" -Patton<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by gobeavers on 07/07/04 02:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[pauldh]

A Fall refresh... I was wondering if their complete current lineup would even be found on shelves by that time. :lol:


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[Vapor]

IIRC, the NV48 will be a semi-significant speed upgrade...á la 5800 -> 5950. I've also heard rumors of 2x the performance of the NV40...though doubtful, it is entirely possible--especially if nVidia wants to put out ATi's flame (though ATi has been holding back seemingly...maybe we'll see R480 sooner than expected as well).

Oh yeah, if you're wondering about how 9800XT (who bought one RIGHT before benchies came out), I'm one of them. Just mine was originally a 9800Pro that a got a sweet deal on (and my Ti4400 died...kinda needed a card anyway); I have no remorse (I spent less than half of the $500 most people paid for the 9800XT, so that might add to it). I like my card and know it will hold me over till a dual NV4x system is available.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Hehe, really uou aren't one of the ones I was writing about, people who NEEDED a card right away don't count. There's no choice for them. And your deal makes it a good buy.

As for the refresh, yeah I don't know what to expect I would be surprised by as significant a boost of the FX5800->5950, even the 5900. But going from the R9700Pro to R9800XT. The only issue with the FX5800 comparison is the level that the FX5800 starts out with because of it's 128bit memory and other minor issues. Even the jump to the FX5900 was significant IMO because they fixed alot of their initial problems with the FX5800 series.

It's nice to see a refresh, but if anyone is going to add/change features, I think ATI better think that that is THEIR job next refresh, nV could do a significant boost by simply moving to low-k/d IMO.

As always, just my two frames worth.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[Vapor]

I know you weren't targeting people like me...but rather those who had a usable card and forked out the full cash for something to be outdone in just a few days or weeks...either way, I did have my 9800Pro only a mere few days before the launch of the 6800.

Anyway, <A HREF="http://vr-zone.com/index.cgi?i=941&s=1" target="_new">here's</A> my reference for the 2x performance mention...I stand by my personal speculation that NV48's improvement over NV40 will be akin to that of the jump from 5800U to 5900U (or even 5950U). I also expect it to be named 6900U (logical, eh?).

HOW they do it is beyond me...low-k/d is a possibility, but that would be from the same company that called it dangerous (or thereabout). I would think that one major difference we may see is in bandwidth...wasn't Samsung readying 1600MHz GDDR3 for both ATi and nVidia before we saw R420 and NV40? Another way would simply be to add more vertex pipes and simply ramp the clockspeed to 500Mhz (low-k might be needed to go any higher, however, so we might see it).

Anyway, it'd be nice to see the NV48 step up to the R420's clockspeeds (and hopefully higher on the memory) and for R480 to implement SM3.0 and HDR (among other things, but I really look forward to those). Either way...I'm holding out till at least that gen.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

VR has some good stuff, alot of the 3Dmk records get done by their members, and they have alot of hack/tweaks. I just wonder what the efficiency involves.

GF<b>69</b>00 eh?!? Any card with 69 in it has got to be worth a second look!

IT is ironic nV's statements about low-k/d but really I think even they realize it's a proven commodity and if they don't find something similar then they will always have to rely on smaller processes to achieve the same speeds. I don't think they can overlook this kind of efficiency too long, and I don't think even more exotic solutions are ready for prime time for G/VPUs. And definitely faster speeds 500+mhz would require low-k for the GF6800series IMO. Sure you can overclock some, but even they are rather rare chips, and with so many trannies really it just compounds the problem.

Faster memory would be helpful, but only with the larger resolutions and higher quality settings for the most part, whereever you se little impact going from nothing to low image settings, then likely the boost in memory speed would have little impact. Adding vertex pipes would help, but would also increase the die size and it's already a pretty big chip. The advanatage that nV had going with IBM that ATI doesn't have with TSMC is that nV onlypays for good wafers/chips, whereas ATI pays for all of the good and bad. nV's talk about the big chips costing them less to make may have some merit if ATI is paying for enough bad chips/wafers.

And yes I like that both are moving up their replacements, because like I said before NEITHER of this generations poster boys imnmpress me much, and hopefully by the time these replacement get here the Socket 939 solutions with PCI-EX/DDR2, etc will be commonplace. Really I can play any game I want right now with my setup, so I'd rather focus my funds elsewhere, including a much need laptop upgrade.

I think this fall holds alot of potential good buys and proven solutions (also BTX may be more fleshed out by then).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[Vapor]

I just wonder what the efficiency involves.

I assumed performance...never really thought about the terminology they use. Could it mean 512-bit memory interface?? Doubtful, but I still look forward to a potential purchase.

GF6900 eh?!? Any card with 69 in it has got to be worth a second look!

I wonder how many sales they will get based off the name alone...? [-peep-], they should make a faster clocked version later (á la 5950 vs. 5900) named 6969U; I wonder how many that would sell solely off its name! I wonder....would SLI for 6969s stand for <b>S</b>uck n' <b>L</b>ick <b>I</b>nbetween-the-legs instead of Scalable Link Interface?

I agree that nVidia needs SOMETHING to get their clockspeeds up...the easiest would probably be low-k/d, but maybe they (or IBM) has another trick up their sleeve?

As for the faster memory...the 6800U seems to only fall behind the X800XTpe at those higher settings. IMO, faster memory is the first step to getting more performance (where it counts) out of that card. I'll let my 3DMark03 scores at 10x7 have a negligible rise as long as my 16x12/4x/16x scores skyrocket. It's only at those higher detail settings where the SLI tandem actually has 2x performance, and that system will cost a good $700 more than a standard system (at least--depends on available mobos/chipsets).

More vertex pipes are probably what I would add next, although the transistor count would raise (once again). Anyway, if nVidia does skip low-k/d and goes straight for 110nm, they could EASILY afford this increase and then some...as well as getting higher clockspeeds (most likely).

You do bring up a good point about IBM vs. TSMC, however, nVidia is back with TSMC...only the first few batches of NV40 were produced at Fishkill (probably because of the typical initial low yields).

As for this generation...they both thoroughly impress me, just not to the point of purchase (not that they are available anyway [for the most part]). I can't run FarCry at the settings I would like...but I'm not going to spend $600 to barely be able to play them at the settings I want. I'm not going to unrequittedly spend that much money--I want my card to manhandle any game I have!

BTX has no appeal to me...I plan to watercool everything from now on--airflow will be a low concern for me.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah I wasn't sure about the efficiency thing, it's just not clear. New exploitable algo even?

would SLI for 6969s stand for...

Yeah, now that's what I"m talking about. I think we mentioned the 6969 back in the old "what do you think the NV40/R400 will be called days". The marketing options would be great, upside down, back to front, outside in, all the while playing NIN's <i>CLOSER</i> "I wanna feel you from the inside".

Seriously, what an opportunity, this shouldn't be missed!

but maybe they (or IBM) has another trick up their sleeve?

From what I've heard/seen around the .net IBM will not be used again for the high end products until the possibility of the 0.9 process. IBM is slated for the NV41 which isn't as speed sensitive.

They are supposedly even moving the rest of the NV40 production to TSMC (IIRC) along with the NV45 production, and according to DigiTimes, <A HREF="http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20040707A7033.html" target="_new">Both ATI and nV will be doing their 0.11 fabbing with TSMC</A>.

There were rumours of a third partner in the mix too that is progressing better with 0.11 with LOW-k/d but I can't remember who it was at this time. I posted a link a while back, but forget the fab. They were initially seen as the 'logical' choice for nV's next chip, but it looks like TSMC will get alot more work than expected.

True about the memory, in the example you use, definitely it will have a significant impact, as long as they don't also immplement 32X AA / 64X AF for SLI mode. (laugh]

I can't wait to see the SLI solution on workstations, it should be quite impressive, but I wonder about IQ, and stability. If people thought games were finicky, pro apps crash by F'in with the Aperture size and even other minor things. Also people there are FAR more anal retentive about quality. It should be very interesting. Imagine this (if you allow me the lattitude of such wild dreaming), ultra wide PCI-EX lanes, with 4 cards, all running together (either through a NEW SLI config or something like Alien's solution) and outputting their 4 images to the already split/controlled IBM QUXGA 22" LCD we both like. WOW! That would be F'in AWESOME! I just got a tingle just thinking about it, and how expensive, and diffiult it would be to setup, but how Freakin' fun it would be to see it in action. Maybe THAT's what the PCI-EX enabled Parhelias can put up as a little target to aim for . Scary just thinking about it.

With bypassing low-k/d and going straight to 0.11 they wuld achieve the same max core speeds, and as you say that would reduce the size allowing for the vertex engines under a similar die size. Interesting, that makes more sense really when you think about it. Althought 0.11 + Low k/d would be best(TSMC doesn't do that yet with their 0.11 process) but the jump to 0.11 is tricky on it's own, but not too tricky. Like the article above says, they will have a chance to test their techniques with the midranges first.

True about the impressions of the new cards. I like what they've both done, but they haven't lived up to the expectations both built up for me (maybe that's my fault), and since I don't play FC (like I said, pretty, but not my kind of game [UT2K4 made me buy as soon as I found it at FS (missed the DVD version by one day, but a friend is going to buy my copy and I will buy a DVD version next week [better for my new/next laptop IMO]), so right now, nothing kills my current setup to make me want to waste money, and the mobo solutions I want aren't even to market yet. So this fall looks very nice. Of course everything that is scheduled for fall was initially scheduled for this F'in spring!

As for BTX, yeah I agree somewhat, really my favourite case is still a big CUBE (not SFF, but server cube style like VOODOO is now selling) this allows MASSIVE airflow options for even PASSIVE cooling (I prefer that even to watercooling, although, speaking of Voodoo, they have an awesome Water solution too. I ant Voodoo new cases and solutions, but without the VOODOO price. They are located here in Calgary but unfortunately not much of a discount. :frown:
I like the Cube also because I fits better as I prefer a wider rig that'll fit under my desk or wall unit than something that has to be beside my desk and which I have to now give about 8-10 inches room (guess how I measured :lol: ) so that the side blow hole isn't blocked.

Anywhoo, all in all could be a VERY nice fall buying season.

These are the things I look forward too, faster DDR2, cheaper Socket 939 solutions with all the goodies. Better SATA optical and HDD solutions, and the new Raid support. All that and a nice PCI-EX graphics solution, now that would be great!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

A little more Crystal Ball Gazing work at the InQ;

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17111" target="_new">Look at the RV410 knocking the RV380 out early</A>
(mention of no new features just die shrink [so no SM3.0]).

* They also make mention of a R410, could this be a shrink of the R420 with less pipes, or just a TYPO? I think just a Typo. The 0.11 version of the R420 is supposed to be the R430 (creative aren't they? ) according to the link from DigiTimes above.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[coolsquirtle]

ewwww Grape popped a stiffy thinking about SLi! geez!




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GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
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