Nvidia Wants Gamere to Forget New Consoles, Go SFF PC

[Mousemonkey]

For gaming alone, unless you're an enthusiast, a PC won't make any sense at all right now. PCs to reach the same level of quality for the new consoles in the SFF will take a good 3 to 4 years. The SteamBox + SteamOS will be as close as it will get to consoles with "traditional" SFF PCs, but other than that, Windows boxes (in any size or shape) will have a harder time.

This is laughably incorrect. A $400 PC runs games better than the consoles do already (the xbone runs bf4 @ 720p, while the PS4 only runs it at 1600x900, both around medium detail levels for the PC).

...a $500 PC is able to run the game at full 1920x1080 with matching settings at the same framerates.

Er... Close, but no:

Intel i3 3220: 125USD
Asus BDROM: 95USD (yes, Consoles have a BD player, so this is fair)
MSI B75 mATX: 70USD
Kingston 2x4GB DDR3 1333: 88USD
CM N200: 40USD (original price is 50USD)
EVGA GTX650: 117USD
Toshiba 1TB: 55USD
Corsair CX430W: 45USD (original is 50USD)

So, with that (I know going AMD is cheaper, but this will be close to a Intel/nVidia low end SteamBox) it gives you around 635USD. Do you think that build can play stuff in Ultra @1080p, play decently in MP (BF4 specially) and all other things Consoles do *while* you play? (Streaming, for example)

I'm not trying to defend consoles here. I'm just defending my 3-4 years same "graphical fidelity" for both systems in SFF until SteamOS arrives.

People want to watch their language when posting, any more F-bombs in any derivative will result in a ban. You have been warned people!

Did you delete my post, MM?

If you did, please put it back; it didn't contain any bad words.

Cheers!

Check your PM's.

 

[cknobman]

People want to watch their language when posting, any more F-bombs in any derivative will result in a ban. You have been warned people!

Oh so the letter f is a bad word now?

My post should not have been deleted. I only used the letter f. If you inferred a bad word from it then that was of your own accord.

 

[Mousemonkey]

People want to watch their language when posting, any more F-bombs in any derivative will result in a ban. You have been warned people!

Oh so the letter f is a bad word now?

My post should not have been deleted. I only used the letter f. If you inferred a bad word from it then that was of your own accord.

If you have a problem with that then I suggest you take it up with our community manager.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/community/pm/write?to=323958

 

[JD88]

Ill preface with "Im a huge PC Gamer"...

But its hard to argue a value proposition of a 399.99 PS4 vs a 399.99 Gaming PC.

100.00 of a build is for Windows alone.

This is a very good point. Most gamers don't really need Windows for anything other than game compatibility, especially those considering consoles. Therefore, that $100 really hurts.

A $500 PC is a lot more of a match for a $500 Xbox than a $400 PC. This is a big reason why Steam OS has a chance. It's also very useful for those who already have a high end gaming PC but want to play games in the living room via streaming.

The fact that the consoles (especially the Xbox) can't even run most of today's games in 1080 without upscaling should also help.

 

[popatim]

Since AMD grabbed an 'exclusive' in the console market, this is just NVidia trying to find the same for themselves too. IMO.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It's hardly an exclusive when the Valve box is not only open but the first OEM Valve box is full of AMD kit.

 

[invlem]

considering my PS4 has 1/3 the features my PS3 had (PS4 plays games, that's it... my fancy bluetooth headset is sitting in a corner collecting dust)... I'm thinking nvidia is on the right track here...

 

[Christopher Shaffer]

SFF Nvidia PCs are for entry-level PC gamers only, and for those foolish enough to buy them, the same user/consumer won't have the hardware knowledge to see the difference between their machine and a Dell, and Dell and other pre-made vendors already own that market.

They'll need a lot more mainstream exposure (advertising) to reach that crowd.

Please rephrase that, as right now it's an atrocity. Who says small form factor PCs are for entry-level gamers only? I'm running an overclocked i5, GTX 670, and sound card, with a custom watercooling loop, in a mini-itx case.

I also disagree that the new steam machines are going to be for entry level PC gamers - some of them are going to have Titans in them. You have a point that the public could use some knowledge of what does what, but that's our job, not nvidia's.

Please re-read that, as right now it's simply been misread.

What I said was, "Nvidia SFF PCs" (note the specific brand name whcih does not target the specific form factor but the product?) are for entry-level PC gamers only due to the fact that experienced PC gamers tend to build their own due to the performance vs cost ratio.

I said nothing implying the machines were weak in terms of power, etc. simply that they were overpriced.

The point is clear: enthusiasts won't buy these as they will opt to build. Those not experienced enough to build or willing to do so that instead opt for a pre-built will likely purchase a machine from Dell or another company with better prices, or possibly Alienware if they think these are superior.

They are targeting an enthusiast crowd that doesn't want their product. That says nothing of its technical capability.

And I'm sorry, you're wrong about who's job it is to make their product knowledge available to the public. If Nvidia wants their SFF PC products to target a demographic outside the enthusiasts (as they are pretty much the only ones aware of them right now) that is their job. It's called marketing.

 

[awesomedude911]

First I don't really like Nvidia saying what the "Future of Gaming" is. I agree and I think people want the new consoles because that's what they have been doing for the last 10+ years, and the price of a $1,000 gaming pc scares them off.

We need to show the market that PC is truly better. We should have low price deal on the Steam Box that is competitive with the Xbox one and PS4

Steam has been giving the PC market amazing deals, and I hope that it always will be that way because pleasing the customer is why so many people will switch to PC

 

[seinfeld]

im just waiting for emulation to start. once you break the encryption. its only a matter of time. its already native X86. and if you have amd hardware it will be sinch to have a new partition and run the PS4/ Xbox (windows 8.1) native!

 

[DarkSable]

Please re-read that, as right now it's simply been misread.

What I said was, "Nvidia SFF PCs" (note the specific brand name whcih does not target the specific form factor but the product?) are for entry-level PC gamers only due to the fact that experienced PC gamers tend to build their own due to the performance vs cost ratio.

I said nothing implying the machines were weak in terms of power, etc. simply that they were overpriced.

The point is clear: enthusiasts won't buy these as they will opt to build. Those not experienced enough to build or willing to do so that instead opt for a pre-built will likely purchase a machine from Dell or another company with better prices, or possibly Alienware if they think these are superior.

They are targeting an enthusiast crowd that doesn't want their product. That says nothing of its technical capability.

And I'm sorry, you're wrong about who's job it is to make their product knowledge available to the public. If Nvidia wants their SFF PC products to target a demographic outside the enthusiasts (as they are pretty much the only ones aware of them right now) that is their job. It's called marketing.

...except nvidia isn't selling branded small form factor PCs. OEMs will be under the Steam Machine label, but those will have both Nvidia and AMD cards in them - it's just that for the trial releases, nvidia was the partner. Nvidia isn't the one determining the pricing of the steam machines, nor anything else about them.

You are correct that I misread you, but it was easy to do, considering Nvidia doesn't sell small form factor computers; I read it as "SFF PCs with nvidia graphics in them." You are correct, I imagine that a lot of steam machines, at least the ones belonging to enthusiasts, will be homebuilt, just like most enthusiast PCs are, and for the same reasons.

No reason to rail at a company for offering premade solutions, though... especially not one who has nothing to do with them other than supplying the graphics card.

I see what you're saying, though I'm not sure I agree than a consumer would look at a steam machine and then go with a dell or alienware. Also, I never said we should be doing marketing for them, I said that we should be helping those who don't understand tech get a better grasp on what a computer's specs mean and do.

 

[seinfeld]

im just waiting for emulation to start. once you break the encryption. its only a matter of time. its already native X86. and if you have amd hardware it will be sinch to have a new partition and run the PS4/ Xbox (windows 8.1) native!

 

[alextheblue]

This is laughably incorrect. A $400 PC runs games better than the consoles do already (the xbone runs bf4 @ 720p, while the PS4 only runs it at 1600x900, both around medium detail levels for the PC).

...a $500 PC is able to run the game at full 1920x1080 with matching settings at the same framerates.

Hmm, show me some prebuilt $400-500 SFF PCs with Bluray so I can compare. 😛 The consoles do pretty well considering they are prebuilt, easy to use for kids and even the tech illiterate, have Bluray, and a free (very nice) wireless controller. In the Xbox One's case you also get the latest Kinect, which is the best motion control out there. Much better than the older one.

I love PC gaming, but just because it's better in many regards doesn't make consoles useless. Furthermore, PC and console gaming are not mutually exclusive, and there are some games I enjoy playing on a console.

 

[gamerkila57]

@quilciri

PS4 actucally runs BF4 @1600x900 High upscaled to 1080p. I would love to see a PC that cost $399 and can runBF4 at higher settings and fit under a TV.

 

[Satrio Ramadhan]

I stand against this. You need around $399 to get a next gen console (PS4) whitout get lagged and you need $500-$700 to get a high end PC to play the game whitout lagged. They want gamers to change side to PC but they doesn't even have a "limited game" to PC. Almost every game on PC are game in Xbox. Next year There's a LOT game exclusive for PS4 especially JRPG. Tell me how you want to get gamers change their mind to buy PC instead Console.

 

[gallidorn]

I love when people try to say consoles are better than PC. They either don't know what they are talking about, or are in denial!

Why would anyone buy a Steam Box? It only has a 450 Watt Power Supply and is nowhere close to being competitively priced with consoles.

Learn how to build your own PC and install Steam on it!

A decent PC can be built for around $400 to $500, and will outperform Microsoft and Sony's so-called next-gen consoles. If you already have a PC, you can buy a Radeon R9 270x for $200 and be able to play every game at 1080p with High to Ultra Settings.

XBONE & PS4 will force you to buy new games at full price, without providing any backwards compatibility. PC on the other hand, will allow you to continue playing your old games, and future games if you upgrade!

When it comes down to it... would you rather have 10-15 games to choose from on the XBONE or PS4 console, or THOUSANDS of games (at a fraction of the cost) on PC???

 

[gamerkila57]

@gallidorn

OK let's see a R9 270X play BF4 or even Crysis 3 on ultra at 1080 and maintain 60FPS. Its not going to happen. You will need a HD 7950 minimum which would run $250-$300 & a i5 or FX 8 which would run you $180-$200 that's already more than a PS4 for a small improvement. Also if you did any research you would know PS4 will get backwards compatibility 2014 via Gaikai and who cares about paying full price as you will do the same on PC if you get them at launch anyways.

 

[Christopher Shaffer]

@gallidorn

OK let's see a R9 270X play BF4 or even Crysis 3 on ultra at 1080 and maintain 60FPS. Its not going to happen. You will need a HD 7950 minimum which would run $250-$300 & a i5 or FX 8 which would run you $180-$200 that's already more than a PS4 for a small improvement. Also if you did any research you would know PS4 will get backwards compatibility 2014 via Gaikai and who cares about paying full price as you will do the same on PC if you get them at launch anyways.

PS4 does not play BF4 at Ultra settings. Even DICE has mentioned (and I wish I could find the link) that it's roughly equivalent to playing on Medium.

This also doesn't really address ambient occlusion or MSAA. It's hard to say what the PS4 equivalent is, but considering how much it affects FPS, I'd guess closer to the lower side of the settings and considering it's an AMD GPU, SSAO, not HDAO or HBAO.

I can build a ~$400 PC that will run BF4 at those or better settings and make it fit under your TV just fine.

 

[jerreddredd]

if nvidia would produce some half-height gaming cards and someone would produce a descent SFF case this idea would catch on.
Dream SFF case:
2-4 2.5" drive bays, a slim BR/DVD slot, a 80+ 400-550 W psu with 2 PCI-E connectors and a good 12v rail. and keep it small with some airflow for the GPU and CPU

just a a dream....

 

[m32]

Nvidia, I'm not buying what your selling!

 

[Douglas Dillingham]

Not to mention BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY!!

 

[rokit]

"plus you get all the extra functionality that a computer brings."
And what about minus like no consoles only games? Kind of big especially when you think that people who own good PCs(and Nvidia advertise enthusuastic level) can and usually do buy consoles because of this.

But i am abit confused with Nvidia words. At first they were against all consoles, but not their own(omg paint me green!) then again against all consoles, then they said Steam(PC in disguise) and Android are ok, and finally now they say that all consoles are bad because only PC can handle higher screen resolution, textures etc. And then i can easily see some news about Nvidia SHIELD *facepalm*

Nvidia you did it, you finally first...first company to overthrow Microsoft as BH#1 company, and the title is yours for 2 years straight! Pathetic....i am waiting for 6 years straight!

 

[gamerkila57]

@Chrispoher I think your confused. Do e has already come out and said BF4 on PS4 is equivalent to high on PC. Also I would love to see one.

 

[sarinaide]

"Valve is currently testing a number of prototypes using a Nvidia Titan, GTX 780, GTX 760 or GTX 660 GPU. On the CPU front, some boxes will have Intel's Core i7-4770, some with the Core i5-4570, and some with Core i3 processors. Available RAM will be 16 GB DDR3-1600 (CPU) and 3 GB DDR5 (GPU), and storage will be provided by a hybrid SSHD with 1 TB for storage and 8 GB for cache. Power will be handled by an internal 450 watt 80 Plus Gold power supply."

All that for the same price as a Console, lets just assume a 450w PSU hacks it for a Titan/4770 prototype how is this going to cost anywhere remotely close to a console, then you factor in that its going to be bigger, heavier, draw more power I think someone fell out his bed and hit his head.

This while AMD, Sony and MS then the many game developers who have carte blanche to AMD hardware for the foreseable future. Fact Nvida, consoles will be around because they serve the fundamental purpose better than anything else which is why it is not replaced. Mortal Kombat, Madden, Gears of War, God of War, Unchartered these are all better on console and no PC can take away the simplicity that console offers. Nvidia have lost a major market and now they are butthurt, simple as.

I will own both a console and a PC because they serve different needs.

 

[rokit]

I can build a ~$400 PC that will run BF4 at those or better settings and make it fit under your TV just fine.

I'd like you to do it right now: good looking case(atleast not shitty)+/-PSU + mb + cpu/apu + gpu + memory + keyboard+mouse + Windows OS (unfortunately Linux is out of the option =( )
Then make it run not just BF4 but other games on the same quality as consoles for good 6-7 years. Because image wise PC isn't really that much better looking than PS4, X1 yes but not PS4.