Nvidia Wants Gamere to Forget New Consoles, Go SFF PC

[Mousemonkey]

Read "original" as "non-rebate and non-offer" price.The "tax" you mention affects both things, so each component will be taxed as well, so...

I covered that already...in fact it's in the quote you used. Also, you're wrong about component tax except for a couple states (e.g. newegg is taxed in california). For the vast majority of people there is NO tax on online ordering.

In regards to the system... I went for cheap, not "competent" with Intel/nVidia. Nowadays the i3 is the bottom line of what a "gaming PC" should have and even then, I would say a cheap i5 is a better option. For the illustrative example I wanted to make, it was the same. Also, bugging me for the memory choice? Can you show me how 1600 vs 1333 affects gaming using a dGPU? 1% at most? And the GTX650... Well, it is not the fault of a buyer looking for nVidia that the GTX650 is utter craptastic hardware. Everything else jumps in price even more.

You're starting to come off very insolent on your replies and not taking into account the idea of what I said: "gaming in and SFF PC is inferior to console gaming for at least 3 years". Since nVidia is making the claims, I build with nVidia, why are you so obsessed with doing an AMD rig when we all know it's a better (overall inferior gaming) value proposition than Intel/nVidia?

I'm not even insulting your competence for building systems, but you are. That is not good to take you seriously.

Also, can you try MP while streaming with your 455? Let me know how it goes.

Cheers!

Hey, I tried to be nice in the first post (well, nice for me anyway). Sorry if you took offense. You insisted that your skills didn't need work, which implies you think your system was about the best you can get for $500....

You're the one putting part restrictions on ...I simply said a $500 PC outperforms consoles, and I have proven that. Notice I didn't blast the I3...the I3 itself is fine. You *could* have used a GTX 650 ti boost or 660...but you picked a terrible Nvidia card.

...as far as the RAM, a small boost is a small boost.The funny part is you quoted $88 for 8gb 1333...when gskill 1600 mhz 8gb was available for $50...without rebate

Oh really? Are you aware that planet earth is made up of different countries or are you logging on from a different planet altogether?

 

[quilciri]

Viola,

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-K Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card ($113.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill Challenger-U3 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDC-207DBK Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($45.98 @ OutletPC)

Total: $492.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

 

[quilciri]

Oh really? Are you aware that planet earth is made up of different countries or are you logging on from a different planet altogether?

I'll add in the U.S. then, but other countries are going to be paying more for everything here, regardless of tax. The build Yuka posted; the one I replied to, was in USD.

I suppose if you live in a U.S. territory or alaska/hawaii, shipping might get expensive.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Oh really? Are you aware that planet earth is made up of different countries or are you logging on from a different planet altogether?

I'll add in the U.S. then, but other countries are going to be paying more for everything here, regardless of tax. The build Yuka posted; the one I replied to, was in USD.

I suppose if you live in a U.S. territory or alaska/hawaii, shipping might get expensive.

There is more to the world than just the US, stop being so xenophobic.

 

[-Fran-]

Viola,

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-K Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card ($113.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill Challenger-U3 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDC-207DBK Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($45.98 @ OutletPC)

Total: $492.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

Base Total: $568.91

That's before taxes and the PS4 is $400 before taxes (you can buy Consoles online as well, don't forget) and XB1 is $500. I wonder, for instance, if we can take nVidia Shield into the equation, since the PS4 has Vita streaming and the XB1 has (or will, I think) through Glass with portable Windows devices (maybe even PCs).

Remember Consoles are a value proposition, just like a PC is. PCs have a wider range of things to do, but when you try to put a PC in a consoles place (SFF, under the TV, plus all the new stuff they put in) it will take PCs some time to catch up or offer the same type of goodies in the same price point.

Also, no offense taken, but please, try not to look down on others 8)

@MM: I don't think he's being xenophobic, so no need to head there.

Cheers!

 

[quilciri]

Oh really? Are you aware that planet earth is made up of different countries or are you logging on from a different planet altogether?

I'll add in the U.S. then, but other countries are going to be paying more for everything here, regardless of tax. The build Yuka posted; the one I replied to, was in USD.

I suppose if you live in a U.S. territory or alaska/hawaii, shipping might get expensive.

There is more to the world than just the US, stop being so xenophobic.

But what will I do with my pair of six-shooters, handlebar moustache and 10 gallon hat, then?

 

[Mousemonkey]

Oh really? Are you aware that planet earth is made up of different countries or are you logging on from a different planet altogether?

I'll add in the U.S. then, but other countries are going to be paying more for everything here, regardless of tax. The build Yuka posted; the one I replied to, was in USD.

I suppose if you live in a U.S. territory or alaska/hawaii, shipping might get expensive.

There is more to the world than just the US, stop being so xenophobic.

But what will I do with my pair of six-shooters, handlebar moustache and 10 gallon hat, then?

Hang out at the Blue Oyster club?

 

[quilciri]

I guess I could get out the rest on my yee-haw's there. I've got another 257 I need to yell in the 2013 fiscal year. I'm behind. *drum roll*

Fun drinking game: watch short circuit, and drink anytime it would be appropriate to yell "Mahoooney!"

 

[quilciri]

Viola,

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-4130 3.4GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-K Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Video Card ($113.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill Challenger-U3 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDC-207DBK Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($45.98 @ OutletPC)

Total: $492.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

Base Total: $568.91

That's before taxes and the PS4 is $400 before taxes (you can buy Consoles online as well, don't forget) and XB1 is $500. I wonder, for instance, if we can take nVidia Shield into the equation, since the PS4 has Vita streaming and the XB1 has (or will, I think) through Glass with portable Windows devices (maybe even PCs).

Remember Consoles are a value proposition, just like a PC is. PCs have a wider range of things to do, but when you try to put a PC in a consoles place (SFF, under the TV, plus all the new stuff they put in) it will take PCs some time to catch up or offer the same type of goodies in the same price point.

Also, no offense taken, but please, try not to look down on others 8)

@MM: I don't think he's being xenophobic, so no need to head there.

Cheers!

Despite Tom's being founded in Deutschland, It seems the U.S. is the defacto "unless otherwise specified" on the forums. *squeezes off a few rounds while claiming to be the "rootinest-tootinest"*

If you are in most of the U.S., there are no taxes for online ordering, and personally I find it easier to order online and fill out a few MIR's than to drive out in order to taze someone (or get tazed if I'm slow on the draw...yeehaw! - that's one) at wal-mart for a PS4. It certainly takes less time. I did post a $400 console-matching rig as well.

Putting together the PC is another story, of course, but the point is, unlike the release of last generation of consoles (when you could barely manage comparable PC performance at double the price), a well-built PC now is already there in terms of game performance vs. the new consoles at the same price point. Whether it's before or after mail in rebates, a few dollars cheaper or more expensive, a few fps faster or slower, or whether you use intel/Nvidia/AMD is really just nitpicking. (...in the continental U.S., excluding California for newegg...and I believe new york for amazon - recent ruling by n.y. state legislature. Side effects include anal-leakage and mild death).

Try to keep in mind, I'm not assaulting you, just the ideas you've presented here. While I may do so viciously, it is not an attack on your person. I'm sure you're a lovely human being, and simply by virtue of you frequenting tom's, I'm sure we'd get along IRL.

 

[quilciri]

But what will I do with my pair of six-shooters, handlebar moustache and 10 gallon hat, then?

Hang out at the Blue Oyster club?

Also....as a black dude, I'd be better off at the Blue Oyster than Texas . I try to keep my sweeping judgments restricted to my own country.

 

[alextheblue]

Why are people comparing DIY rigs with prebuilt consoles? Most console gamers aren't going to build their own console-replacement. The rest already bought or built a PC in addition to their console(s) (I've been building for years but I still buy the occasional console or mobile device).

So yeah... affordable SFF, prebuilt with Bluray? Anyone?

 

[DarkSable]

Hmm, show me some prebuilt $400-500 SFF PCs with Bluray so I can compare. The consoles do pretty well considering they are prebuilt, easy to use for kids and even the tech illiterate, have Bluray, and a free (very nice) wireless controller. In the Xbox One's case you also get the latest Kinect, which is the best motion control out there. Much better than the older one.

I love PC gaming, but just because it's better in many regards doesn't make consoles useless. Furthermore, PC and console gaming are not mutually exclusive, and there are some games I enjoy playing on a console.

Yes, the consoles are good for the tech illiterate and young children... but consider the quote I was calling incorrect: that PCs are going to take 4 years to get the same level of quality as consoles. That's simply not true - PCs are already there.

I grant that the controller is good, though sometime next year, PC drivers will be released for it if you don't want to use the unofficial ones that are already out there. I dispute the Kinect over a regular wii controler. (Also, woo hoo, you can play blu-rays. For some people, I get that's a big deal... but then consider that a PC isn't limited to DRM-infested media and therefore doesn't need blu-rays, because it can stream in HD easier than blinking, and I don't see the point.)


@Yuka: Read what I said. I didn't say that a $500 computer was going to be playing games on ultra at 1080p. I said it was going to be playing games better than the medium settings and low resolutions of the consoles, which it can do easily. It doesn't need a blu-ray player (see above, and they're more pain than they're worth in a PC), and if you take a build based around an A10, you can do very well. *(Especially considering the A10 is basically just a much faster version of the Jaguar cores in the consoles.)

@Gamerkilla 57: If you increase the budget slightly to match the Xbox, it can be done quite easily - you throw an A10 into a small form factor case and boom, you're there. Here's a build I threw together which not only has extremely fast RAM to complement the A10's integrated graphics, it also has room for overclocking AND an SSD. This would blow a console out of the water, price/performance wise.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-6800K 4.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($134.99 @ TigerDirect)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master GeminII S524 77.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($37.24 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A75M-ITX R2.0 Mini ITX FM2 Motherboard ($91.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP900 64GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Apex MI-008 Mini ITX Tower Case w/250W Power Supply ($49.19 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 PWM 82.5 CFM 140mm Fan ($26.64 @ Amazon)
Total: $520.01
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-05 05:34 EST-0500)

EDIT: Oh yeah. And it's all tax free and every part is Prime-eligible, so you can get this thing in 2 days instead of waiting for stock to be in on consoles.

 

[natoco]

If you own a desktop any newer or on par with Nehalem (nov2008) and just add a new mid range video card since those cpus are already better than both the new consoles and your done, let alone once the new fab process cards arrive next year and take another big step forward. The whole 'mines bigger than yours' is getting very old quick. Consoles are exactly what they are supposed to be, neat, tidy and cheap plus easy to jump straight into. Plus with millions sold already, think of all the good x86 ports about to come to everyone no matter what there choice.

 

[sarinaide]

Why are people comparing DIY rigs with prebuilt consoles? Most console gamers aren't going to build their own console-replacement. The rest already bought or built a PC in addition to their console(s) (I've been building for years but I still buy the occasional console or mobile device).

So yeah... affordable SFF, prebuilt with Bluray? Anyone?

Thats because people go off on a tangent without considering the real comparison, show me a SFF system that is cheaper and as practicalized as a console. For its purpose the console is still king of the hill no matter how much graphics fidelity the PC has. The console has always been enough and now it is better than previous consoles. The reason why Nvidia have come out with this, no less punting their own pages which I question the motives for that. Nvidia's market is becoming more limited.

 

[DarkSable]

Thats because people go off on a tangent without considering the real comparison, show me a SFF system that is cheaper and as practicalized as a console. For its purpose the console is still king of the hill no matter how much graphics fidelity the PC has. The console has always been enough and now it is better than previous consoles. The reason why Nvidia have come out with this, no less punting their own pages which I question the motives for that. Nvidia's market is becoming more limited.

We have been showing you SFF systems that are cheaper or comparable. As for "practicalized," we're talking about a flipping computer here - whatever bells and whistles the consoles claim to have, a PC can do whatever it wants to.

If you mean "for its purpose" to be a very easy, use-without-thinking way to game, then yes, but so is a phone. If you mean that it's the best at gaming, or at being a media center, then you should think again. Saying the console has always been enough, well, give me a break. What you should say is it's always been enough for you, because you don't care that much about graphic fidelity or other features; that's fine. But don't make a blanket statement like that; many of us don't even own consoles because they aren't close to enough. (And there's no need to dis nvidia, especially like that - remember the company on your badge can also be used in SFF pcs. [though not without more attention paid to the greater heat generation, but hey.])

 

[NG88]

They are just mad because neither Sony or Microsoft wanted to use their products in their consoles. Nvidia is straight trash.

 

[DarkSable]

They are just mad because neither Sony or Microsoft wanted to use their products in their consoles. Nvidia is straight trash.

... both Sony and Microsoft approached Nvidia FIRST. Nvidia turned them down.

Before you try to troll, how 'bout you know a little about what you're talking about so you don't seem like a completely braindead troll.

 

[_Cosmin_]

nVidia lost the battle because they didn`t open source their drivers... and game producers could not optimize the games properly... hence their low interest in developing games for tegra (2/3/4) platform. Also end users don`t want to pay $900+ just for a videocard to gain low performance over their (much-much cheaper) rivals.
nVidia must lower their product price and innovate (no, shadowplay does not count as innovation) to gain the edge again...
By focusing on grid their hardware could stream content to PS4 and Xbox1...if they manage to convince game providers (like steam) to use it...

 

[SonSon1]

They are really butthurt for the next generation of consoles being AMD only, don't they?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Funny how nVidia wasn't saying this when it was THEIR hardware in consoles. I can't believe that people even listen to this crap. LOL

 

[Mousemonkey]

Funny how nVidia wasn't saying this when it was THEIR hardware in consoles. I can't believe that people even listen to this crap. LOL

I can't believe you hadn't heard of the Steam OS.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Funny how nVidia wasn't saying this when it was THEIR hardware in consoles. I can't believe that people even listen to this crap. LOL

I can't believe you hadn't heard of the Steam OS.

"SteamOS Now Supports AMD, Intel Graphics"
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/steam-box-machines-amd-intel,25697.html

SteamOS was never intended to be GPU exclusive. However, that didn't stop nVidia from getting a little press love for a couple months. SteamOS is still a beta, don't forget that.

I haven't forgotten and I hope you haven't forgotten the PM I sent to you a while back.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Funny how nVidia wasn't saying this when it was THEIR hardware in consoles. I can't believe that people even listen to this crap. LOL

I can't believe you hadn't heard of the Steam OS.

"SteamOS Now Supports AMD, Intel Graphics"
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/steam-box-machines-amd-intel,25697.html

SteamOS was never intended to be GPU exclusive. However, that didn't stop nVidia from getting a little press love for a couple months. SteamOS is still a beta, don't forget that.

I haven't forgotten and I hope you haven't forgotten the PM I sent to you a while back.

Why do you say that? Did I do something wrong here?

Look back over the last few comments you have made and who you've quoted, I've warned you once and will not warn again.