Odd motherboard power connector?

lonewarrior2

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Hello, I had a question I'm hoping someone can help me with here...

Most motherboards come with either a 20 or 24-pin power connector.
I just bought a pc and only thing I saw wrong with it was the power supply being too weak for adding a graphics card, so bought a new power supply to put in, opened the case.


Found it has a 12-pin power connector?
First I thought it was AT, but it says clearly on the board printed next to it...ATX_POWER1.
I would try to add a picture...but I'm unsure how to, but I don't know what to do with this board.
I've tried to look it up through the printed name on the board, Acer Inc., but couldn't find a mobo list. Tried MSI...but the site is down, will try to look tonight just wanted to see if the knowledge base here has ever seen this before.

Motherboard version appears to be MS-7829 v1.1
But the only reference I found for this was a larger mobo with a 24-pin and four graphics card ports, where this one has one graphics port.

The Connector appears to be ATX as it is Molex socketed...(forgive me if I'm misusing the term, but I understand it to be fitted sockets to allow only one way insert)..where AT was not...so what type of connector is it? (Also the mobo has the separate 4-pin 12V socket)

My pc is:
Gateway DX-4885-UR21
i5-4330


If anyone has an idea of what this power socket type is it would be a huge help, I've never seen anything like it before. And if someone can tell me either A: how to upload a picture I can show what the socket looks like, or B can follow a link to imageshack or the like.

Thank you for your time and help!

Airman Howard
 

Upgrader3

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[ A number of recent Acer and Gateway desktops have this issue -- see this post: . "Which Acer & Gateway desktops have the proprietary 12-pin PSU-to-mobo connector?"
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2021321/acer-gateway-desktops-proprietary-pin-psu-mobo-connector.html ]

Custom DIY Adapter: . Plug Any Standard (24-pin) ATX PSU Into A Proprietary Acer/Gateway Motherboard

MUST-READ DISCLAIMER: . The procedure outlined herein is offered for hypothetical consideration and for discussion purposes only. . Undertaking the procedure [or any similar procedure] is bound to void any applicable warranties. . If the procedure is flawed (or not implemented correctly), your hardware may be damaged [fire may even be a possibility]. . I have not tested the procedure. . The procedure may or may not produce the desired results, and furthermore may produce counterproductive or damaging results. . Do not attempt this procedure [or any similar procedure] unless you are prepared to take full, complete, and sole responsibility for the results.

Having stated the above disclaimer, I'm the sort of person who would regard Acer/Gateway's "roadblock" to a PSU upgrade as an irresistable challenge to overcome, even if considerable DIY time & effort is involved.

A suitable adapter would permit easy installation of any standard ATX power supply -- below is an outline of one possilbe way to make such an adapter.

* I invite and welcome input, feedback, suggestions, corrections, and/or modifications from experienced electrical engineers, techs, builders, modders, and enthusiasts . . .



1) . Source the following [see my later post on sourcing]:

- a duplicate (unwired) unit of the 12-pin connector

- an (unwired) 24-pin ATX connector that will mate with the 24p ATX connector that is already wired onto on your new PSU
NOTE: . The 24p already on the new PSU has female metal pin-receptacles within male plastic plugs. . The 24-pin connector-part that you need for the adapter has male metal pins within female plastic sockets.

- eleven 8"-lengths of UL1007 16awg hook-up wire. . the colors you will need are: . 3x Yellow, 1x Blue, 4x Black, 1x Green, 1x Gray, 1x Purple

- 11 male metal connector pins + 11 female metal connector pins

2) . Get familiar with the Acer-Gateway proprietary pinout
[see upper connector in diagram] for the 12p connector that will become the end of the adapter that plugs into the motherboard.

The viewpoint is looking onto the tip-end of a 12-fingered male plastic plug, with 12 individual male plastic "keys", in 2 horizontal rows with 6 plugs in each row. . Each of the individual keys houses a female metal pin-receptacle. . The clip side appears underneath and the smooth side above.

3) . Get familiar with the standard ATX pinout [see lower connector in diagram] for the ATX 24p connector that becomes the end of the adapter that plugs onto the existing ATX connector of the new PSU.

The viewpoint is looking onto the open-end of a 24-holed female plastic socket, with 24 individual female plastic "keyholes", in 2 horizontal rows with 12 in each row. . Each of the individual keyholes houses a male metal pin. . The clip side appears underneath and the smooth side above.

4) . Using a multimeter or power supply tester, check all of the voltages (on the original PSU) at all of the pin sites on the original proprietary 12p connector. . Likewise, check all of the voltages (on the new PSU) at all of the pinsites on the standard ATX 24p connector [one might want to do this under-load, as well as no-load, to better understand things]. . If you think all manufacturers concerned have strictly adhered to the color code standards, you might be tempted to skip using the multimeter. . It would speed things up if the color coding were all you needed to make this adapter -- but remember you are modding "Acer/Gateway Proprietary Design". . The integrity of the motherboard is at stake; the phrase "trust but verify" comes to mind.

5) . After verifying that all of the voltage measurements are consistent with the standard ATX color coding of the wire leads, proceed as follows. . [Note that there are several different viable ways to run the 11 wires to the 24 pin sites in the ATX connector.]

Let P1 = pin 1 (yellow) on the Proprietary [P] 12p connector
Let A11 = pin 11 (yellow) of the ATX [A] 24p connector

w1) . Run an 8" length of yellow wire from P1 to A11

[NOTE: . you'll need to crimp pins onto the wire ends, then insert pins into the correct pin-sites on the housings. . regarding the crimping and insertion, Google such topics as "modding atx connectors", "pin removal, atx connectors", "crimping pins for atx connectors", "pin insertion, atx connectors" . . you may wish to get someone to assist you with this step. . or you could pay a tech to make the whole adapter]

w2) . Run an 8" length of yellow wire from P2 to A10

w3) . Run an 8" length of yellow wire from P3 to ___? . . . hmmm, it looks like there are only two +12V pin sites [A10-yellow & A11-yellow] on the ATX pinout, and both are already tapped. . this minor problem is addressed further below.

w4) . Run an 8" length of blue wire from P4 to A14

w5) . Run an 8" length of black wire from P5 to A17

w6) . Run an 8" length of black wire from P6 to A15

* * * Skip P7 -- leave it empty -- as this pin is unused * * *

w7) . Run an 8" length of green wire from P8 to A16

w8) . Run an 8" length of gray wire from P9 to A8

w9) . Run an 8" length of purple wire from P10 to A9

w10) . Run an 8" length of black wire from P11 to A5

w11) . Run an 8" length of black wire from P12 to A3

Regarding step w3 above, here are two possibilities for providing +12V power to P3 [pin 3 of the 12-pin connector]:

w3.1) . Preferred: . Leave the 8" length of yellow wire connected to P3, but unconnected at its other end . . Then, at the time you install the new PSU, find an unused PSU connector [e.g., an unused SATA connector] that houses a +12V pin, and engineer a way to draw the +12V from that connector.

w3 2) . Alternative possibility? . Remove and set-aside the 8" yellow wire, and just run a very short jumper wire from P2 to P3 (or from P1 to P3) -- Does anyone know whether this approach is acceptable or not?

10 of the 24 pin sites on the ATX 24p connector are now wired, and the following 14 sites will remain unused: . A1, A2, A4, A6, A7, A12, A13, A18, A19, A20, A21, A22, A23, A24

Your pin work on both ends of the adapter needs to be in perfect accordance with the pinouts . . any mistakes here could be very costly.

6) . Review everything you've done for possible errors, and do end-to-end continuity checks for all 10 current paths through the adapter

7) . Plug the 24p connector of your new PSU into 24p side of the finished adapter. . Check the voltages on all 12 pins of the 12p connector.

8) . Install the new PSU

- You may have to get creative in how you fit/screw/secure the PSU box to the interior of the Acer/Gateway case, if the form factor and screw holes of your new PSU is different than the original PSU

- Take the necessary steps to provide +12V power to pin site P3, as discussed in part w3 of step 5 above [unless you decided to simply add a jumper wire to accomplish this]

------------------------------------

BACKGROUND: . Way back in 2007, I bought an eMachines T3522 [a Black-Friday special that I'm using right now to type this answer], promptly removed the stock Bestec Power Supply [which had all standard ATX connectors], and installed a 350W Vantec VAN-350N Power Supply [purchased used off eBay, manufactured 2004, warranty expired 2007, still working here in 2014], after reading numerous online horror stories of how the stock PSU's in some eMachine product lines were failing relatively quickly, and often destroying motherboards when they failed. . [Gateway bought eMachines in 2004, and Acer bought Gateway in 2007, according to Wikipedia.]
 

HillBillyAsian

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http://www.findlaptopdriver.com/ms-7829-mainboard-specifications-7252012h80/

says it uses a 24pin connector.
edit: are you sure that you're looking at the correct connector and not a usb 3.0 header or something on the mobo? Like you stated most are 20-24 pin (unless you're looking at high end servers)
 

lonewarrior2

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cklaubur: Yes this is the machine in question.

Here is a picture of the socket:
(sorry slightly blurred, camera had trouble focusing)
[NOTE: The photo is a link to imageshack.]


 

cklaubur

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I'm not sure what that connector is, but that is not a standard ATX power connector.

Can you get a good picture of the label on the power supply that was in the computer? I'm looking at the pictures in the Newegg listing, and the label on the power supply is just a bit too small for me to read. I'm trying to get the model number off the power supply to see if I can find more information about it.

Casey
 

lonewarrior2

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That page was why I got so confused as that was the only page I could find that matched the model number on my mobo, but that page ALSO says that my board should have 3 Graphics card sockets, I have only one.
Edit: That is if I understand the listing correctly, it says I should have a PCI-E x16 which I have and 2 PCI-E x1 and 2 PCI-E Mini? Never heard of the mini slot before, but only other two sockets on the board are the small PCI-E slots for sound/network cards.
 

lonewarrior2

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One the motherboard itself? No, that 12-pin and the 4-pin 12V are the only two power connectors on the board. When looking up the power supply it said the power supply socket type is an ATX12V..

Here's the link for the pdf document of the power supply:
http://

From what I'm seeing this power supply doesn't even have 3.3V on hit...which I thought was a requirement for ATX12V? But anyway looking at the connector, it appears to have one more +12V cable than a 24 does with three yellow wires, no red +5V wires, but one violet +5VSB wire, then one blue -12V, one grey PG wire, one green PS-ON wire and four black GND wires on the end.
Form of connector: 1,2,3: yellow; 4: blue; 5,6: black; 7: unused; 8: green; 9: grey; 10: violet; 11,12: black
So it provides no 3.3V current, and no 5V except for standby power?

 

Upgrader3

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If you don't want to buy parts and make an adapter, here are two simpler options:

Option 1: . Pin Swapping Between PSU Power Connectors

[in regards to this option, you may wish to check out this related link:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t3207823-dc7100_compact_power_supply]

(less flexible, and harder-to-undo, but cheap, fast, and effective if done 100% correctly)

a) . Do the voltage testing and verification of the color-coding of the PSU wiring, as emphasized in in my earlier post in this thread [the one that outlines how to make a 24-to-12 adapter from scratch]

b) . Learn how to remove and insert pins from PSU power connectors. . There is a special tool for removing a pin from the connector (with the wire still attached); however this can also be done using staples or other "substitute tools". . Search Google and/or Youtube for "remove pins, ATX connector"

c) . Leaving the wires attached to the pins, remove all the pins (and wires) from the Gateway 12-pin power connector, allowing you to completely separate and remove the Gateway plastic 12p-connector-housing from the wiring

d) . Remove the following 10 pins (and wires) from the 24-pin connector that came with your new PSU: . 3, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17

e) . Insert each of these 10 pins into its correct matching pin site in the Gateway 12-pin connector. . Refer to the pinouts and instructions in my "make adapter" post.

f) . You still need to address the issue of how to deal with pin site 3 on the 12-pin adapter -- refer to the relevant part of my "make adapter" post

g) . Finish the task as outlined in my "make adapter" post


Option 2: . Splice
Proprietary 12-pin onto New PSU

(less elegant, less flexible, and harder-to-undo, but cheap, fast, and effective if done 100% correctly)

a) . Cut the 24p connector off your new PSU, leaving about 8" of wire still attached to the connector

b) . Cut the 12p connector off the original PSU, , leaving about 8" of wire still attached to the connector

c) . Do the voltage testing and verification of the color-coding of the PSU wiring, as emphasized in my "make adapter" post

d) . Splice each of the "tail wires" coming out of the 12-pin connector to the correct matching wire of the new-PSU wireset, in direct wire-to-wire fashion [You may wish to search google and/or youtube for "how to splice electrical wire"]. . Refer to the pinouts in my "make adapter" post.

e) . As with the adapter installation (or the pin-swapping procedure), the issue of supplying power to Pin 3 of the 12-pin adapter will still need to be addressed -- refer to the relevant part of my "make adapter" post

f) . Fourteen of the 24 wires originally connected to the 24-oin ATX connector have been cut, but will not be used -- so cap the cut ends of those 14 unused wires, and bundle them, and secure them in an out-of-the-way fashion.

g) . Finish the task by referring to the latter steps of my "make adapter" post
 

Upgrader3

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Sourcing Parts For The Adapter

1) To source a duplicate (unwired) 12-pin plug [for the motherboard-end of the adapter], try eBay. . .
> Computers/Tablets & Networking > Cables & Connectors
. . . and type the following text into the eBay search box:

(atx,pcb,power,psu) (12 pin,12pin,12 p,12p) connector

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111266413169
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0IH07310-Inventec-4-5inch-12-pin-Power-Cable-Internal-/231100962802?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ceb0d7f2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-NN319-PowerEdge-T610-12-Pin-4-Server-Secondary-Power-Cable-Cord-/370558993070?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56470982ae

Other possibilities . . .

http://www.moddiy.com/products/Seasonic%7B47%7DEnermax-Modular-Power-Supply-12%252dPin-Connector-%252d-Black.html
http://www.moddiy.com/products/XFX-ProSeries-PSU-PCI%252dE-Modular-Connector-%2812%252dPin%29.html

Similarly for the 24-pin ATX connector [for the PSU-end of the adapter] . . .

http://www.moddiy.com/products/20%252dPin-Motherboard-Power-Male-Connector-%252d-Transparent-White.html
http://www.moddiy.com/products/ATX-Main-Power-24-Pin-Male-Connector-Housing-%28White%29-.html

And you will need some metal connector pins [11 male, 11 female], to crimp onto the wire-ends. . .

http://www.moddiy.com/products/Gold%252dPlated-ATX-%7B47%7D-PCI-%7B47%7D-EPS-Connector-Pins-%28Male%29.html
http://www.moddiy.com/products/Gold%252dPlated-ATX-%7B47%7D-PCI-%7B47%7D-EPS-Connector-Pins-%28Female%29.html

If don't have on hand the 16awg colored wire, you could order the wire, or look for it at a local hardware/electrical supply, but you might obtain the small amount of wire needed by asking a friend who is an PC enthusiast, rebuilder, modder, or tinkerer; or by contacting your local computer-repair tech, or local Craigslist computer-parts seller.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24PIN-to-24pin-ATX-EPS-Power-Extension-Cable-9inch-MADE-IN-USA-/131109032236?pt=US_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item1e86b5112c
With the item above you would get a nice bonus: . the colored wire that you need, with that colored wire already attached to one of the connectors that you need [just cut away the plastic-male plug]; OTOH this is likely made of 18awg wire instead of the heavier 16awg that I would recommend.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Consumer PSU's that come from the factory with 12-pin power-supply connectors of this type [ATX / PCI / EPS] are virtually non-existent. . I did find some Dell business-grade and/or server PSU's with Dell-proprietary 12-pin connectors, which are only intended to distribute power to SATA drives/devices. And the Dell proprietary pinout is clearly different than the Acer/Gateway proprietary pinout, so you would still be faced with manually rewiring the 12-pin connector . . .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-poweredge-server-1800-power-supply-TJ785-GD323-FD732-GJ319-P2591-/200668610683?pt=US_Server_Power_Supplies&hash=item2eb8c8007b
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-Dell-1000W-Precision-690-Mini-Tower-Power-Supply-ND285-PSU-N1000P-00-/191063678930?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item2c7c485fd2
 

Upgrader3

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Have Someone Else Make The Adapter For You

There is an eBay vendor [UserID: "manythingsus"] who will do the job of inserting a 24-pin connecting link between the PSU and the 12-pin connector. . You ship your original Acer/Gateway PSU to him (the 12-pin must be left attached to it), he adds the 24-pin linkage behind the 12-pin, and then ships the PSU (with the newly-fashioned adapter) back to you.

This allows the 12-pin connector to be removeable, and to be deployed on either the original Acer/Gateway PSU, or on any standard ATX PSU. . As this is being written, the cost of the service is $50 (plus the cost of shipping the stock PSU there and back).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-or-Gateway-12-pin-cable-adaptor-to-24-pin-Use-standard-power-supplies-/161288427710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258d8a18be

The eBay listing includes a very clear photo showing the proprietary Acer/Gateway 12-pin PSU-to-mobo connector, with 3 yellow, 1 blue, 4 black, 1 green, 1 gray and 1 violet lead [11 leads attached, and 1 pin not used]. . The pinout reflected in the photo is consistent with the pinout reported by the OP earlier in this thread,

Looking onto the tip-end of the male plastic plug, with smooth side above and clip side (symbolized by projecting rectangle) below:


 

Colonelsander

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Im having the same problem,ive done a lot of research and your best bet is to just upgrade motherboard andpower supply.this avoids having to run dual psus which requires takeing a wired paper clip into a socket to start the computer which can blow the mobo
 

jatinb

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I also have this PC (Core i5 4430, 12GB, 2TB) and I'm very curious how did you end up upgrading the power supply. I have a new 7870 and a new EVGA 500W power just sitting there. I'd really appreciate any help I can get.
 

phorisc

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Does W3.2 work to create the jumper wire? I just would like to make the adaptor self contained instead of having to grab a wire from elsewhere in the psu.
Any success stories with this solution? Any tips or gotchas?
 

jatinb

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These are very well detailed instructions and might work. However, I kinda sold my system on ebay and bought an hp at microcenter. They have a similarly speced system for around $500 (refurbished). I now have an after market power supply and a big ass graphics card installed in it. With some cable management, everything has room to breath.

Replacing the motherboard (and possibly transferring your hardware to a new case) could be one option. This will allow you to keep using your existing components but remember that replacing the motherboard will in all probability cost you your windows license. Selling the "original" motherboard, power supply and case on ebay or something will partially make up for the additional cost of the new motherboard, case, power supply and windows.
 

phorisc

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I did this over the weekend and it works, I used w3.2 to power the 3rd pin by using a jumper wire. Awesome stuff, thanks Upgrader3! One thing to note though is if you are upgrading your video card you may have to make sure you set the bios to legacy mode and turn off secure mode...theres an issue with gtx cards that they dont work unless those settings are changed...google it if you want more details I found the information on nvidia forums.
 

Upgrader3

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Thanks for your post relating your success using the adapter approach that I outlined, and for showing that the jumper wire can supply the necessary power to the 3rd pin.

Your points about the BIOS settings and GTX cards are important ones for anyone going this route.

If you could post a couple of photos showing the adapter, the jumper wire, and maybe the inside of your case with the adapter in place, that would be awesome.

 

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