Only a 5% overclock on the T-Bred?

[Matisaro]

What a comeback post ;-).


Did anyone else notice the tbred they used in the test had RED PACKAGING, amd switched the green several months ago, this clearly indicates that tom is using an OLD chip, take this test with a grain of salt.

There is a marked difference between the green and red(brown) overclocking, I think the red chips are the stock which had the timing issues, only green chips should be accepted as examples of the cores performance.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Matisaro on 06/10/02 04:29 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Matisaro]

No, probably more to do with the reviewers (Frank & Bert this time) not really trying. Ace's got 1900-2000MHz out of the thing with just a cheap GlobalWin HSF, better than they got with the Pally and better than THG got with watercooling. There's a Danish site claiming to get 2GHz on the stock HSF, but all they showed was a POST screen.

While overclocking isn't what we'd hoped, and performance is clearly behind the fastest Northwood, it's worth noting that the PR rating still holds true, even with 533FSB Northwoods.

Sites all over are showing 2ghz+ overclocks with air cooling, furthermore this chip is red!

Vokkel and his friends are using a 2 month old engineering chip to demonstrate the overclocking potential of the new core, does anyone else think its strange that the 1800+ tbred has a heatoutput lower than the palomino signifigantly, then magically the 2200+ shoots up to palomino levels?

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[lhgpoobaa]

ugh.

im just SICK of the benchmarks of non-existant overclocked processors.


at least the topic of crap coolers and proper thermal protection was covered.

nice to see amd laying down the law at last.


<font color=blue>Pants Down! Turn Around! Bend Over! You're about to Experience Telstra broadband! :lol:

 

[Matisaro]

I agree, except for the arrogant way vokkel made it look like his "video" was the cause for amd thermal protection, dumb bastard dosent realize still that amds specification was not followed by siemens, not amds spec was wrong.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[lhgpoobaa]

still think amd should have forced thermal protection from the start of the XP.

lost a few mobo maker brownie points maybe... but better for the customer.

<font color=blue>Pants Down! Turn Around! Bend Over! You're about to Experience Telstra broadband! :lol:

 

[rcj187]

are anandtech using "old" engineering samples too? there chips have red packaging as well. so does ace hardware. and overclockers.com.....
are ALL the review sites really using "old" samples? i doubt it. sorry mat but it looks like the poor old athlon just cant rev any faster. 🙁 maybe when the line matures you will be proved right but as things stand now it looks like the athlon is at its design limit. where are you hammer? AMD needs you!

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

 

[Matisaro]

Yes, they are all using old samples, how do you explain the fact amd started using all green packaging 2 months ago and the tbreds are all red, their OLD packaging, you think amd went back to red this this week only?

The fact is the first chips out were mostly red, this was to get rid of the first cores made, MONTHS AGO, the proof is in the color!!!

Months ago we know the tbred line had an issue, they repaired the issue, they made lots of tbred chips with this issue, and apparently the way to distinguish them is the fact they are packaged in RED, whats so hard to understand>?

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Matisaro]

All new amd chips since ~2 months ago, came with green packaging, there are no exceptions I am aware of, the fact these chips are red tells me ONE thing, they are more than 2 months old.

Whatever the reason, the chips anand, thg and others are using to test are 2 months old at least.


If the amd line did have an issue with the first stepping of tbred(and this is what we have heard) those chips would have come off the line several months ago, and have been packaged in red, then amd revamped the line, and the new chips are packaged in green, amd cant just throw away the red chips, they work at stock speeds, they just dont scale well, therefore they are sold, amd is not supposed to guarente an overclock, they are doing nothing wrong.


However, the fact the green cores are overclocking much better than the red from all reports, and the fact the cores themselves are red and not green, AND the rumor we heard about a bad origional stepping, leads me to believe the red cores are [-peep-] overclockers, and the true potential of the line will be shown on green cores.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[baldurga]

Yes, I also notice the heat issue. But I thought it was related to the voltage increase + the lower area to transmit heat.

Anyway, going from 1.75 to 1.5 for the lower Tbred seems good to me, as the reduction in heat produced. But the gap goes narrower as frecuency increase AND voltage goes up. My question is, ¿what is the heatoutput of a Tbred 1700+ at 1,75v? ¿Can anyone give a formula to calculate it aprox or, at least, that give and idea of the diference in %? ¿Can also speculate the heat produced by a Tbred 2200+ at 1,5v?

I hope they are just tunning the 0.13 process so in the near future we have a 2200+ at 1.5v and, why not, an increase in the surface area for a better heat transmition.

DIY: read, buy, test, learn, reward yourself!

 

[rcj187]

that sounds like a reasonable assumption. i was kind of wandering what amd had done with all those "bad" chips. i know amd frown on overclocking but they KNOW that review sites are going to do it anyway to try and get some idea of how far it can go. surely it would make more sense for amd to send good ones that can oc well to these review sites! at the moment the fact that they only have "bad" chips makes the whole lot look bad. these reviews are what people are going to base their opinions on when it comes to rcomending/upgrading. i think amd have made a big mistake here.....

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

 

[eden]

AMD will probably react to this article soon, and resend the real hand-picked chips like Intel does.

--
Meow

 

[eden]

Say Ray where have you been these days?

Oh and how were you able to find an article that had not shown up yet?

--
Meow

 

[eden]

Mat I was thinking this ALL this time I read the article. First thing that popped into my mind is: Hmm I thought the new AMD chips were green?

Then upon looking at the results, I can only deduce, that behind logic, something is wrong. Come on people how can you not realize! It's obvious there is something wrong in the chip. I am with Mat, it probably is an old chip with the bad timing, otherwise under logic, under a lower power consumption, it SHOULD not be a worse OCer at all. If it was this way, how in the world do they expect to get the Barton out on this process, if the headroom with 512K L2 would be even more reduced, as if it wasn't this bad now!

There is this, and the odd chip Gigabyte claims of having at 2.6GHZ.

So personally, I won't beleive this chip's OCing on this website, nor Anand's until AMD or someone professional in these chips confirms it.

However I'd agree this was a rather informative article, without the benches. THG has always had good informing guides, while their benches have huge flaws. Not only was it long this time, (32!) but they kept doing errors! I mean look at the SPEC tests, one of them says lower is better, yeah well how can you explain that a 850 Athlon beats the rest? AND, if it was just an error and that the higher the better, it makes no sense an XP1500+ beats a 2.8GHZ P4 with an insane FSB. Nope there is no logic there bub, Intel should have won this round too unless?

--
Meow

 

[jeffg007]

"However, the fact the green cores are overclocking much better than the red from all reports"

Where your links to back it up?

It fun watching you squirm lol

Jeff

 

[Kelledin]

<A HREF="http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=187&PageID=4" target="_new">-click-</A>

amdmb.com seems to be the only one with a green AthlonXP; everyone else (Ace's, Tom's, AnandTech) got one with either bright red or dull brown packaging. It also seems that amdmb.com has the only one that overclocks well. Coincidence?.... :tongue:

<pre>We now <b>return</b>(<font color=blue>-1</font color=blue>) to an irregular program scheduler.</pre><p>

 

[Matisaro]

but they KNOW that review sites are going to do it anyway to try and get some idea of how far it can go. surely it would make more sense for amd to send good ones that can oc well to these review sites! at the moment the fact that they only have "bad" chips makes the whole lot look bad

AMD locked the hammer to prevent people from overclocking it and giving people expectations that they are not prepared to uphold(ie releasing the hammer well below the current chips topspeed)

Now, try this on for size.
Possibilities.
A: the hardware sites got chips through normal channels not from amd. The majority of chips RIGHT NOW are red.
B: The review sites nda's have finally been lifted and they have had these samples for months but could not review them till now
C: amd sent them red chips knowing that at the moment most tbreds are red, and to give reviewers green chips would artificially inflate the expected results of the entire line which RIGHT NOW, consists mainly of red core chips.

People would wonder why their new tbred wont do 2.3ghz like the reviewers samples.

All 3 of those theories are valid, and there is something fishy going on here.

The fact the core is red is a big deal, and I am feel that when green cored tbreds are more commonplace that we will see better clocking from them.


Either way, the hammer is coming soon, and amd demoed an aircooled 2800+ chip, the tbred will hold the line till the hammer and thats all amd cares about right now.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Matisaro]

Say Ray where have you been these days?

Oh and how were you able to find an article that had not shown up yet?

Ray has been lurking waiting for a moment when intel is ahead to gloat, but we dont forget the questions he left unanswered and we are still waiting for his explinations for the debates he started and retreated from upon his loss.

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[Smokey]

Yes please, if anyone has any good links I would love to see. I do use AMD and was extremely dissapointed with the poor heat results. I understand there is some speculation about 2 month old TB's, but AMD should have made the effort to get the new chips before these tests were done. Buyers trust the tech info they read on these sites, and to allow bad press at the launch of a new product in an already dissapointing AMD environment is a disaster! Barton better have some heat spreaders...

Life's a hole...dig it. - Joe Dirt

 

[Matisaro]

Its fun watching me squirm?

It fun watching you squirm lol

Who the hell are you? You dont know me, so why would it be fun watching me squirm, furthermore I am not squirming, as the results obtained are on the low end, but within the results I predicted.

As for my linkage, there is another thread right now called intel people hold your horses, and in that thread there are the links with which I base my oppinion, perhaps you should read them, so I can watch you squirm.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Matisaro]

but AMD should have made the effort to get the new chips before these tests were done. Buyers trust the tech info they read on these sites, and to allow bad press at the launch of a new product in an already dissapointing AMD environment is a disaster! Barton better have some heat spreaders...

1: heatspreaders increase temprature, burger has some interesting links on that, they are to protect cores from damage, not to help with heat, why they are called heatspreaders is beyond me.
2: see my possible reasons why the review sites are using red cores, and why high overclocks may be DISADVANTAGEOUS to amd right now.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

There is a marked difference between the green and red(brown) overclocking, I think the red chips are the stock which had the timing issues, only green chips should be accepted as examples of the cores performance.

You take the red chip, you wake up in your own bed, and you believe what you want to. You take the green chip, you stay in wonderland...

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"

 

[jeffg007]

lol mat you fun to watch keep it going.

jeff

 

[jclw]

The thing that shocked me most was the lack of an IHS on a 0.13 chip. Trying to pull that much heat away from that core without an IHS is silly. You can only pull so much heat away across that size contact area. Simple engineering. Easily calculated.

Obviously by using a high quality cooling solution with a great thermal compound you can move more heat off the core, but I'm not really into spending more money on a cooling solution then on the processor I'm attempting to cool.

I doubt an IHS would have added more then $1 or two to the price of the processor, and people could have used their existing cooling solutions, and probably overclocked much more easily.

When intel shrunk the PIII cores from 0.18 to 0.13 and added an IHS you could take the fans off your heatsinks, or go for a 30%+ overclock. When AMD does a die shrink you have to go out and buy some super extra special new cooling solution? Right...

I hope AMD wisens up before releasing the Barton cores.

- JW

 

[eden]

Read Mat's claim above about the IHS' not being what it means.

--
Meow

 

[pr497]

im confused now....isnt the new TBred supposed to overclock like a champ?....
of the 3 websites ive read (this one, anand, and ace's)....the highest overclock from a TBred 2200+ (1.8ghz) was around 1900mhz...even the "old" P4 (willy core) can overclock higher than that...
it's kinda hard to believe that the cpu can overclock higher...but it'll be nice if anyone can post a link to this 2+ghz overclock.

😱 <b>Who fixed <font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s leaky faucet??</b> 😱