News OpenAI was hacked, revealing internal secrets and raising national security concerns — year-old breach wasn't reported to the public

[jp7189]

The key words in zsydeepsky's post are "open source". Models used by Google, OpenAI, Microsoft, Amazon, X, etc. aren't open source. Facebook is an exception, here.

I don't disagree with that. There's a lot of argument to be made that the closed source models you mention are better. However, I'm very supportive of the open weight models and hugging face's work to standardize the testing.

Specifically, I love open models because anyone can do almost anything with them. E.g. Cognitive put out a Dolphin fine tune (censor and bias removed) of Qwen2, with weights from Q1 all the way up to full fp32.. which frankly is insane, and they have the freedom (and horsepower) to do it and to (re)publish it for all to play with.

 

[bit_user]

I don't disagree with that. There's a lot of argument to be made that the closed source models you mention are better. However, I'm very supportive of the open weight models and hugging face's work to standardize the testing.

My only point was that I think it'd be a mistake to assume those open source models represent the state of the art, especially given how many of the industry leaders haven't open sourced their models.

 

[bit_user]

There's that "freedom of press" angle you might want to call upon now to tell me that government agencies, officals and politicians don't influence the press,

They can't compel the press to print anything or forbid it from printing things that aren't of material importance to national security - and the standard for that is pretty high.

but they have already been caught directing Facebook, Twitte, etc and influencing what gets posted and what gets deleted.

There's been some interaction between law enforcement and social media, in the vein of whether certain posts run afoul of applicable laws. However, this interaction was curtailed in a recent court case. There was no evidence it was used to advance a political agenda.

The second part of your claim - that this authority was used to force social media companies to post something is baseless. In fact, recent court rulings have gone in the direction of preventing government from compelling social media companies to not to take down messages that disagree with the companies internal policies. At issue is that the First Amendment protects the government from compelling you to say something you disagree with, and the court seems to regard restricting social media companies from censoring according to their own policies to be equivalent to government-compelled speech.

Even without that kind of interference, what government officials and politicians say shapes the public opinion

Or the other way around. Sometimes, media personalities and organizations try to influence politicians. Even if it's politicians influencing media, that's still not the government, unless they're actually using the tools of government to coerce the press.

Those particular sanctions despite being unilateral (i.e. imposed by the US alone) involve stepping on the sovereignity of Netherlands (and other countries whose products US wants to restrict) and telling their companies who they can and can't do business with. Just don't tell me that's ok with you and at least stop to think how you would feel about it if the sides were reversed.

I think it's a discussion. Yes, there's pressure, but I believe the Netherlands also knows China is a threat and might feel ambivalent about providing equipment and support to them.

Yes, and that's the problem with sanctions. They don't work unless you keep applying them to everyone who dares to disobey you.

I don't believe in a perpetual sanctions regime. IMO, sanctions are a potent tactic, but should ultimately lead to more durable mechanisms like treaties.

Right, and Chinese gamers shouldn't have the right to own RTX 4090 or the latest Intel CPU or a fast M.2 drive?

Of those things you listed, only the RTX 4090 is under sanction. I truly wonder how many of the RTX 4090's sold in China were even being used for gaming. And if a few gamers suffer slightly lower framerates at 4k, it's hard for me to agree that's a real hardship on everyday people.

A bigger issue for Chinese gamers is surely their access to content and laws surrounding who can play games and for how long. None of those restrictions are ones the USA had anything to do with.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

That's BS and you know it.

There's nothing stringent and there's a bunch of articles over on Ars Technica which prove that USPTO is just rubber-stamping patents nowadays.

In short:

• The United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) is funded by fees—and the agency gets more fees if it approves an application.
• Unlimited opportunities to refile rejected applications means sometimes granting a patent is the only way to get rid of a persistent applicant.
• Patent examiners are given less time to review patent applications as they gain seniority, leading to less thorough reviews.

As for EVs I posted a couple of examples but they aren't in any way the only ones -- you are free to search for more. Tesla has even a recall page where you can find how many cars of which model were recalled and what was the reason. I shall also remind you about Tesla car propensity to slam into red trucks or concrete dividers and kill their drivers.

That said, you clearly have an axe to grind against China, so I doubt any further comparisons I offer will be good enough proof for you that US products and patents aren't any better (not to mention US doesn't really have much domestic products left anyway).

Again, USPTO has no “good faith” clause so it doesn’t matter if you think, without any knowledge, that US patent acceptance is lax. A 50% denial rate is infinite times more stringent than 100% acceptance rates because all Chinese patents are accepting under good faith.

Also, I don’t have an axe to grind with China, I am simply anti-disinformation no matter the source. When every corner of the earth is filled with people regurgitating clear propaganda that can be refuted by even the most rudimentary google search, it’s super easy, barely an inconvenience, to nip the spread in the bud.

And please do provide proof, I won’t be convinced by sourceless narrative weaving, so if that is all you have then yes, you cannot offer enough proof.

Finally, I find it hilarious that even when you are attempting to gain one on me you still prove my point. Tesla transparently presents their recalls to the world, whereas China suppresses all information that makes them look bad on the world stage, whether it taking Australia threatening to ban Chinese EVs to force chinese EV manufacturers to care enough to recall their vehicles that like to turn into judge, jury, and electro-executioner, or Xiaomi blatantly lying to the Chinese public that an active autopilot vehicle that decided to accelerate onto a sidewalk killing 1 and severely injuring 3 more is normal operating conditions.

I don’t know, maybe it’s me that’s broken for thinking 7 Chinese EV’s burning down every single day is a sign that there is a lack of QA/QC culture in China.

To conclude, every one of your propaganda talking points has been rebuked with cited sources by yours truly. What other disinformation can I help you with today?

 

[jp7189]

My only point was that I think it'd be a mistake to assume those open source models represent the state of the art, especially given how many of the industry leaders haven't open sourced their models.

Well that depends on your "art". The commercial models are so scared of liability from misuse they have added a lot of bias that leans the wrong way for some. Practical example: ciminal defense attourneys are refused answers to a lot of their questions because they pertain to subjects that are off limits. I view those models as damaged and/or incomplete. Though they do accel in some areas beyond the open models.

Beyond that, I work with some people that don't trust any of the "cloud" run models with their proprietary data, and are willing to finetune local models instead. I will say it seems Microsoft is making some good strides in the right directions in this regard. They claim fine tune data stays completely with the customer tenant and is fully governed by the customer's policies and controls. Even GCC tenants are getting access to secure AI features.

 

[CmdrShepard]

Again, USPTO has no “good faith” clause so it doesn’t matter if you think, without any knowledge, that US patent acceptance is lax. A 50% denial rate is infinite times more stringent than 100% acceptance rates because all Chinese patents are accepting under good faith.

So it's your word that acceptance rate in USPTO is just 50%? Do you have a source for that?

Also, I don’t have an axe to grind with China, I am simply anti-disinformation no matter the source.

Right, I see you are vehemently protesting Elon Musk's Autopilot then? Even the name of it is disinformation, let alone the fact that it is supposed to be full self-driving, was sold as such, and still wasn't delivered to those who paid for it.

When every corner of the earth is filled with people regurgitating clear propaganda that can be refuted by even the most rudimentary google search, it’s super easy, barely an inconvenience, to nip the spread in the bud.

Or perhaps it's the majority of Earth's people who are right and you are wrong because you've been drinking US koolaid for so long straight from the source?

Finally, I find it hilarious that even when you are attempting to gain one on me you still prove my point. Tesla transparently presents...

Yeah, sure...

That's why they have been under NHTSA investigation two years over FSD claim, and why they had to be forced to issue a 2 million vehicle recall over inadequate driver attention checking system instead of doing a voluntary recall, and also why they are now again under investigation because the recall didn't fix the problem (there were 20 more crashes since the recall, most recent of them fatal).

All because US companies are so, so, transparent. Just like Microsoft who knew about flaws and didn't fix them or inform the government agencies plenty of which got hacked as a result. Or Boing, whose whistleblowers misteriously end up dead and whose latest planes killed quite a number of people.

But yeah, you just keep your rose colored glasses on when you look at the west. Everything is fine.

I don’t know, maybe it’s me that’s broken for thinking 7 Chinese EV’s burning down every single day is a sign that there is a lack of QA/QC culture in China.

And what if the number of sold Chinese EVs is considerably higher? What if Tesla sold the same number, how many more burned Teslas there would be? Are the statistics you are peddling adjusted for that?

To conclude, every one of your propaganda talking points has been rebuked with cited sources by yours truly. What other disinformation can I help you with today?

It's you who is spreading Sinophobic propaganda post after post while conveniently putting your head in the sand when it comes to all the faults of major US companies.

Try harder. Or don't, you are just wasting time because nobody believes that crap anymore.

 

[USAFRet]

Sigh...

As is often the case, an article like this has gone far afield and off-topic.

Closing this.