Question Packet Loss exactly every 21 mins on Final hop to WoW EU Servers

[roonie81]

Hi Folks!

Recently got Fibre finally through Gigaclear but noticed that I had an annoying 5s spike / connection freeze in-game (WoW) every 20 mins.

I decided to dig deeper and run a ping plotter for a few hours and it turns out that the final hop (et-0-0-31-pe02-eqam1.as57976.net) is losing packets like clockwork every 21 mins causing the spike in-game. The packet-loss on hop 6 (ldn-bb3-link.telia.net) looks bad on ping plotter but doesn't actually cause any issues in game.

Was wondering if the hive-mind here had seen this sort of thing before or has any ideas what to do next - I've opened a ticket with Blizzard who invariably have suggested to do all the 'usual' stuff but this issue seems to run far deeper than anything on my PC or home network causing this.

Edit: a VPN seems to exhibit the same error but still experimenting with various routing options.

Thanks in advance guys!
Charlie

 

[bill001g]

What is more telling in your graph is the average and maximum latency. The numbers to your router make it appear you are running on wifi. Most people get less than 2-3ms maximum that use ethernet. Wifi can cause these issues and you may not see it these tools if the problem is very short. I would try to test on ethernet.

In any case you can do nothing at all about issues outside your network and things on your ISP network. Even then your ISP will likely only fix the connection to your house.

Calling blizzard support seems like the logical thing but the odds of you ticket ever getting to the correct network guys is extremely doubtful. The customer facing side of blizzard support is mostly dealing with game issues not network infrastructure support. If it is a actual issue they likely already know about it. Like most companies they have a large amount of resources dedicated to monitoring their network.

I would first see if you can eliminate the inconsistent latency in your home network and maybe you get lucky and the cause if the same.

 

[roonie81]

Hi Bill!

Thank you for the quick reply - This was actually captured over ethernet :S - To be fair I've made a few changes to the Network adapter settings in the interim so I will retest tonight.

What is more telling in your graph is the average and maximum latency. The numbers to your router make it appear you are running on wifi. Most people get less than 2-3ms maximum that use ethernet. Wifi can cause these issues and you may not see it these tools if the problem is very short. I would try to test on ethernet.

In any case you can do nothing at all about issues outside your network and things on your ISP network. Even then your ISP will likely only fix the connection to your house.

Calling blizzard support seems like the logical thing but the odds of you ticket ever getting to the correct network guys is extremely doubtful. The customer facing side of blizzard support is mostly dealing with game issues not network infrastructure support. If it is a actual issue they likely already know about it. Like most companies they have a large amount of resources dedicated to monitoring their network.

I would first see if you can eliminate the inconsistent latency in your home network and maybe you get lucky and the cause if the same.

 

[bill001g]

Something is really strange if that is ethernet. Either your PC or the router must be holding the data to get delays like that. You have a average of 7ms where most people have numbers so small the machines reports 1ms.
100+ms is a major delay. On wifi the delay is caused by the wifi chip re transmitting data until it gets a good copy. Ethernet just discards damaged data so you would see packet loss and not delays.

Make sure you do not have any so called "gaming" network accelerators installed. These are many times bundled with the motherboard. Killer chipset has the most issues but asus bundles one that runs on intel chipsets.

 

[roonie81]

Bill,

Another thing I'll be sure to check before I retest in ping plotter later.

Thanks again!

Make sure you do not have any so called "gaming" network accelerators installed. These are many times bundled with the motherboard. Killer chipset has the most issues but asus bundles one that runs on intel chipsets.

 

[roonie81]

I've re-done the test on ethernet - Looks quite similar, what do you think? Packet loss still hitting every 21 mins on final hop/s without fail

 

[bill001g]

It actually looks much better your latency is much lower are more consistent to the end server that by itself should reduce lag spikes in games.

I would test with a actual ping command running in the background. I would leave ping run to the server and to both your router and your ISP router in hop 2. This is to see if pingplot is telling the truth. What you hope is that you see some issue to your router or your ISP connection. Those you have a much better chance of getting it fixed.

If the problem really is in blizzards network you can really do nothing yourself. To really fix this even blizzard might have issues. The problem is that ping plot only shows the path from you to the server. The path from the server back many times follows a different path. ISP try to use their network first to carry traffic as far as they can so the path on almost all connection that are not very simple will follow different paths.

To really fix a problem like this will require people from all the different ISP involved to get on a call and work together to troubleshoot the problem. If you are the only user affected they will not be willing to put that level of effort in to fix it.

 

[roonie81]

Hi Bill, Thanks for the reply -

Slight novice here - What's the ping command to run in the background? - I'd like to try it !

Cheers

It actually looks much better your latency is much lower are more consistent to the end server that by itself should reduce lag spikes in games.

I would test with a actual ping command running in the background. I would leave ping run to the server and to both your router and your ISP router in hop 2. This is to see if pingplot is telling the truth. What you hope is that you see some issue to your router or your ISP connection. Those you have a much better chance of getting it fixed.

If the problem really is in blizzards network you can really do nothing yourself. To really fix this even blizzard might have issues. The problem is that ping plot only shows the path from you to the server. The path from the server back many times follows a different path. ISP try to use their network first to carry traffic as far as they can so the path on almost all connection that are not very simple will follow different paths.

To really fix a problem like this will require people from all the different ISP involved to get on a call and work together to troubleshoot the problem. If you are the only user affected they will not be willing to put that level of effort in to fix it.

 

[bill001g]

open a cmd window and type in ping the -t option make it run constant.

 

[roonie81]

Thanks Bill,

I've discovered that a VPN totally gets rid of the issue (which I guess would rule out a problem on the first 2 hops?) - plus blizzard sent me this, so it seems it's a grovel to my ISP kinda deal :/ - Wish me luck!

open a cmd window and type in ping the -t option make it run constant.

 

[lloret]

Thanks Bill,

I've discovered that a VPN totally gets rid of the issue (which I guess would rule out a problem on the first 2 hops?) - plus blizzard sent me this, so it seems it's a grovel to my ISP kinda deal :/ - Wish me luck!

i tried using wtfast in todays mythic raid which is essentially the same as a vpn
and i didn't have a lag spike

not really sure what this means
but my isp fobbed me off saying if there's no error in first 4 pings its not our problem


it's also the telia server where my packet loss starts then ends up with the final hop losing connection for 1-2 seconds

let me know how you get on by mentioning the telia server mate

 

[roonie81]

I'll keep you posted, I don't expect I'll get answer from my ISP before next week now it's the weekend - Technically it's not their fault - But since I pay them lots of money I'm making it their problem to route around the problem. Fingers crossed!

i tried using wtfast in todays mythic raid which is essentially the same as a vpn
and i didn't have a lag spike

not really sure what this means
but my isp fobbed me off saying if there's no error in first 4 pings its not our problem


it's also the telia server where my packet loss starts then ends up with the final hop losing connection for 1-2 seconds

let me know how you get on by mentioning the telia server mate

 

[bill001g]

People like me who used to deal with actual internet routers are kinda laughing at the idea that it is trivial to just change the routing between ISP. This is extremely carefully designed and planned it is not something they will even consider changing because of some minor error. Partially it is contractual agreement between ISP and that the techs can't change unless the lawyers approve. They have well planned out designs for emergencies like if a fiber would get cut but some gamer calling up and saying his games run badly is not going to impress them.

Your ISP unless they have some contractual agreement with telia to provide a service can do nothing. They really are no different than you. It not like you can request your ISP upgrade a fiber in their network because it is slow even if you are their customer.

.....looking again at this maybe tell blizzard since THEY are a direct customer of telia THEY should tell them to fix the network. I am sure blizzard will get right on it

 

[roonie81]

I get all that, but hey - I can but try! Just kinda annoying to go from a 10mb ADSL connection which had zero lag to 950mb Fibre and have these 20 minute spikes!! - If I need to use an a permanent VPN for gaming, sobeit - But other customers who use activision / blizzard's service via my new ISPs routing will surely complain too with response sensitive games like COD etc. - I'm aware this isn't really anyone's fault and how it would be easy to brush off

People like me who used to deal with actual internet routers are kinda laughing at the idea that it is trivial to just change the routing between ISP. This is extremely carefully designed and planned it is not something they will even consider changing because of some minor error. Partially it is contractual agreement between ISP and that the techs can't change unless the lawyers approve. They have well planned out designs for emergencies like if a fiber would get cut but some gamer calling up and saying his games run badly is not going to impress them.

Your ISP unless they have some contractual agreement with telia to provide a service can do nothing. They really are no different than you. It not like you can request your ISP upgrade a fiber in their network because it is slow even if you are their customer.

.....looking again at this maybe tell blizzard since THEY are a direct customer of telia THEY should tell them to fix the network. I am sure blizzard will get right on it