Question Packet Loss issues due to hardware?

[ymi04060513]

Hi,

I'm gonna put this into systems because I'm not sure what this topic would be under other than, generally, systems.

So, I've really never had any issues with internet lag, I have a download speed of ~500-700mbps all the time, and I'm connected via ethernet. Right now, I'm playing a game called Rust on a big server, I've played on these types of servers for thousands of hours and never had issues with PING before. I run at 100+ fps all the time, with really no dips, so I am certain it is not FPS lag. What happens, is every 5 or so minutes, sometimes shorter intervals, or longer, is that I disconnect completely, I stop being able to hear the people I'm talking to on discord and I completely freeze in game, my in-game ping counter jumps to upwards of 2000 usually, and I freeze for about 10 seconds.

When I run speedtests, I get my usually 500-700 speed at the very beginning, and slowly I just creep down towards the 500s, then the 400s, and then the 300s, and 200s. And ill start the test with ~700 MBPS and finish with somewhere in the 100s/low 200s.

https://ibb.co/zH9JrZK

^ For example, this is what one of my sppedtest looks like, I sit at 40mbps upload speed, but the graph represents how my download speed changes over the course of the test, sometimes its parabolic in nature, other times its just straight down at a constant loss.

I downloaded and ran PingPlotter, and let it run for about 2 hours and these were the results for the last hour.

https://ibb.co/CHWj4xj

Using there website under the 'reading results,' or similarly named tab, it looks like this is not a problem outside of my Local Network but inside, and likely a hardware issue. I run fantastic latency and [lack thereof] packet loss, until I get hit with this massive red block of packet loss, if anyone is familiar with this, what can I do?

(Heres another, with the destination back to pingplotter, set to 2.5sec intervals)
https://ibb.co/BVvJRVg

 

[ymi04060513]

As previously discussed, this may simply be your on-board network adapter. Replacing it is easy and inexpensive. Be sure to disable the on-board when you install the new adapter.

I keep an Intel PCIe network adapter for just these sorts of issues in my parts bin.

Is my B450 just compatible with any NIC card? Are the vast majority of the ones that have good reviews in the >$30 price range on amazon able to just be swapped out with the one currently in my B450? Or do i need to view a compatability list, if so, where do i find this?

 

[COLGeek]

Any should do. Nothing special needed.

 

[ymi04060513]

Any should do. Nothing special needed.

Okay fantastic, ive switched out about all my pc specs, cpu, gpu, ram, coolers, fans, mobo, case, etc. but have no idea how to switch out one of these, i want to do it the right way though. Is there anyone who has a good detailed video on gow to switch this out, and explains what i have to do before, during, or after installation as well?

 

[COLGeek]

Okay fantastic, ive switched out about all my pc specs, cpu, gpu, ram, coolers, fans, mobo, case, etc. but have no idea how to switch out one of these, i want to do it the right way though. Is there anyone who has a good detailed video on gow to switch this out, and explains what i have to do before, during, or after installation as well?

You don't switch out anything. You disable the onboard NIC in the BIOS.

The new adapter goes in a vacant PCIe slot.

 

[ymi04060513]

You don't switch out anything. You disable the onboard NIC in the BIOS.

The new adapter goes in a vacant PCIe slot.

Gotchaaa, yeah i juet opened my pc and looked at it and i was like ah, definetly cant take the MOBO one out. Thank you.

 

[ymi04060513]

Gotchaaa, yeah i juet opened my pc and looked at it and i was like ah, definetly cant take the MOBO one out. Thank you.

Havent even switched it out, but now looking at my brothers PC and mine at the same time, he is also experiencing the Packet Loss, hes also sitting 80%+ on the first hop. I really have no clue whats going on, but this is seriously starting to piss me off. Im also running mine and im getting my standard results of just packet loss on Hop 1 and about 20% on all other hops too.

 

[General_Cool]

Havent even switched it out, but now looking at my brothers PC and mine at the same time, he is also experiencing the Packet Loss, hes also sitting 80%+ on the first hop. I really have no clue whats going on, but this is seriously starting to piss me off. Im also running mine and im getting my standard results of just packet loss on Hop 1 and about 20% on all other hops too.

If you're experiencing packet loss on the first hop, that means you're losing 80% of packets on the way from your computer to your router...meaning somewhere between your router and your devices there is a problem, and it could be anything from the cables (not likely) to your computers (not likely), to your switch, to your router. You need to run pingplotter on a laptop connected directly to your router via ethernet to make sure its not your network switch, which I also highly doubt being the problem.

You said earlier that you have a bunch of Google Nests in your house set up as extenders. You can try, if you know you'll be able to set it back up properly again, taking one of them, factory resetting it, and then swapping it out for the router that the switch is connected to. Just keep in mind your entire houses network will be down until you finish troubleshooting, so keep that in mind if you have siblings or parents that rely on wifi.

I kind of doubt that its your router causing the problems, unless your Nests are very old, and I'm talking 7+ years. Even my Airport routers from 2016, which stopped getting software updates years ago (thanks Apple...) still work, albeit with occasional hiccups.

I think at this point it would be worth a call to your ISP. If your brother is a homie he could take the bullet and call your ISP for you while you try to troubleshoot so you can kill two birds with one stone.

 

[ymi04060513]

If you're experiencing packet loss on the first hop, that means you're losing 80% of packets on the way from your computer to your router...meaning somewhere between your router and your devices there is a problem, and it could be anything from the cables (not likely) to your computers (not likely), to your switch, to your router. You need to run pingplotter on a laptop connected directly to your router via ethernet to make sure its not your network switch, which I also highly doubt being the problem.

You said earlier that you have a bunch of Google Nests in your house set up as extenders. You can try, if you know you'll be able to set it back up properly again, taking one of them, factory resetting it, and then swapping it out for the router that the switch is connected to. Just keep in mind your entire houses network will be down until you finish troubleshooting, so keep that in mind if you have siblings or parents that rely on wifi.

I kind of doubt that its your router causing the problems, unless your Nests are very old, and I'm talking 7+ years. Even my Airport routers from 2016, which stopped getting software updates years ago (thanks Apple...) still work, albeit with occasional hiccups.

I think at this point it would be worth a call to your ISP. If your brother is a homie he could take the bullet and call your ISP for you while you try to troubleshoot so you can kill two birds with one stone.

I absolutely agree with you here, but i think i might have to just suck it up, and be off my PC for a bit. I just took my brother back to law school, and i go back to college on the 21st, and my parents are in France for my grandpas funeral until the 15th, and my dad is the one who set up all of the nest hubs and stuff, and we have a bunch of ring cameras and our heating set up to the wifi that theyre checking and controlling while in france. So it just comes down to me not really being able to do anything until theyre back which sucks. But I also understand from their perspective that cameras, the heating, and lights are much more important than me getting intermittent lag on a video game. So im almost done installing this new PCIe NIC in my computer, so if this doesnt work it looks like im just gonna have to bite the bullet until theyre back. I will certainly tell you if the issue persists, which im almost certain it will, but we'll see. If not, when they come back, we'll consider where to go after following your last message. Thanks for your help.

 

[General_Cool]

I absolutely agree with you here, but i think i might have to just suck it up, and be off my PC for a bit. I just took my brother back to law school, and i go back to college on the 21st, and my parents are in France for my grandpas funeral until the 15th, and my dad is the one who set up all of the nest hubs and stuff, and we have a bunch of ring cameras and our heating set up to the wifi that theyre checking and controlling while in france. So it just comes down to me not really being able to do anything until theyre back which sucks. But I also understand from their perspective that cameras, the heating, and lights are much more important than me getting intermittent lag on a video game. So im almost done installing this new PCIe NIC in my computer, so if this doesnt work it looks like im just gonna have to bite the bullet until theyre back. I will certainly tell you if the issue persists, which im almost certain it will, but we'll see. If not, when they come back, we'll consider where to go after following your last message. Thanks for your help.

You're welcome. I would tend to agree that its better to limp the network until your parents get back than shut it down and potentially lose your camera and heating system in the scenario that you can't fix it. A relatively safe option until then would be asking your parents if they're okay with you calling the ISP to have them send a remote signal refresh, which could solve the issue and at worst would turn the internet off for five minutes.

Feel free to close this thread by marking a best answer, and when your parents come back, if the issue persists, open a new thread with a link to this one in the networking subforum, since there are many users there that only peruse that section of the site that could be better equipped to help you, since it sounds like this is less of a PC hardware issue (since its happening to your brothers PC) and more related to your network/ISP.

 

[ymi04060513]

You're welcome. I would tend to agree that its better to limp the network until your parents get back than shut it down and potentially lose your camera and heating system in the scenario that you can't fix it. A relatively safe option until then would be asking your parents if they're okay with you calling the ISP to have them send a remote signal refresh, which could solve the issue and at worst would turn the internet off for five minutes.

Feel free to close this thread by marking a best answer, and when your parents come back, if the issue persists, open a new thread with a link to this one in the networking subforum, since there are many users there that only peruse that section of the site that could be better equipped to help you, since it sounds like this is less of a PC hardware issue (since its happening to your brothers PC) and more related to your network/ISP.

Understood, fantastic, im gonna leave this open for the night but will shut this down in the monring if there are no other developments for the night. Thank you for your help, truly.

 

[ymi04060513]

Understood, fantastic, im gonna leave this open for the night but will shut this down in the monring if there are no other developments for the night. Thank you for your help, truly.

It still seems like the issue is persisting. Sitting at 88% packet loss, according to PingPlotter...

 

[bill001g]

Like I mentioned in my earlier post the loss you see in pingplotter is a testing abnormality based on how pingplotter is sending the data.

Use a actual ping command and ping the router IP. I strongly suspect you will not see any loss. If you were then to ping the ISP ip in hop 2 that is where you likely see the loss.

There is a tiny chance the router is defective but it is much more likely that there is something wrong with the cabling coming to your house.

 

[ymi04060513]

Like I mentioned in my earlier post the loss you see in pingplotter is a testing abnormality based on how pingplotter is sending the data.

Use a actual ping command and ping the router IP. I strongly suspect you will not see any loss. If you were then to ping the ISP ip in hop 2 that is where you likely see the loss.

There is a tiny chance the router is defective but it is much more likely that there is something wrong with the cabling coming to your house.

Okay, I've just run a ping to my IP address in cmd two times, and both times saw 0% loss, however, this is such a short test, and my lag is not a constant wave but more like a lightning strike in a storm, the odds of me getting one of my usual lag spikes while running this 5-second test is pretty unlikely, correct?

I then ran a CMD Tracert 8.8.8.8, then got my ISP IP address from the 2nd hop, and then ran a ping back to that IP Address. In the background, I was running PIngPlotter to see when my massive lagspikes came, and it looks like I ran this command during one of those, because the request timed out, then gave em the info that it sent=4, received=3, lost=1, and that the minimum=12ms, max=1884ms, and the avg. was 637.

I ran the ISP IP address one more time after this, and with no lagspike in the middle, got sent=4, received=4, lost=0, min=12, max=13, avg=12.

Does this tell me then that it isn't an issue with my hop 2? Because without the lag, there was very little recorded loss...

EDIT: If your next suggestion would be to call my ISP, what would I even say, like blanket introductory statement, "Hey, so I'm dealing with some really bad packet loss, and I've troubleshot different computers, and different wires, etc. and think that the problem is the cable running into my house?"

 

[bill001g]

You need to use the -t option on the ping command so it runs constantly.

Let 2 cmd windows run in the background with one constant ping to the router and a second to the isp first address.

Run whatever you normally do and when you detect issues quickly switch to these windows and stop them. You hopefully will show no loss at all the first hop but loss to the ISP router. What you can also do to sidestep the ISP technicians script is to remove the router and plug your pc directly into the modem. This assume that the modem is not built into the router.

Now if you can get lucky you will get a tech that will understand that this means all your equipment is good and the problem is in the ISP network. The ISP have other tools they can also use to measure the quality of the line. To fix it they have to come out to your house in most cases. In some cases they can detect the problem from the central office.

 

[ymi04060513]

You need to use the -t option on the ping command so it runs constantly.

Let 2 cmd windows run in the background with one constant ping to the router and a second to the isp first address.

Run whatever you normally do and when you detect issues quickly switch to these windows and stop them. You hopefully will show no loss at all the first hop but loss to the ISP router. What you can also do to sidestep the ISP technicians script is to remove the router and plug your pc directly into the modem. This assume that the modem is not built into the router.

Now if you can get lucky you will get a tech that will understand that this means all your equipment is good and the problem is in the ISP network. The ISP have other tools they can also use to measure the quality of the line. To fix it they have to come out to your house in most cases. In some cases they can detect the problem from the central office.

Okay, I'm going to do that and wait to see what the results are after a lag spike, however, I got a short one when running a tracert 8.8.8.8 and it gave me all my hop IP addresses, except for the first one, saying that the request timed out and just moved onto the next, is this a coincidence for the lag, or could this mean something more, that only the first one timed out?

I'm running the -t prompts now, so I'll get back to you in 10 or so minutes.

 

[ymi04060513]

Okay, I'm going to do that and wait to see what the results are after a lag spike, however, I got a short one when running a tracert 8.8.8.8 and it gave me all my hop IP addresses, except for the first one, saying that the request timed out and just moved onto the next, is this a coincidence for the lag, or could this mean something more, that only the first one timed out?

I'm running the -t prompts now, so I'll get back to you in 10 or so minutes.

Okay, so I just had my first lag of the test, I quickly went over and stopped it, I'm gonna take a clipping, scribble out my IPs and then sent it over to you, so give me 5 minutes.

 

[ymi04060513]

https://ibb.co/TB8hfsW

So here are my results from the test, on the left is the pign back to my router, and on the right is my ping to my ISP, I'm really lagging now, so if you want me to run the command for more time, and let some more lags hit, and get back to you after like 3 or 4 of these desyncs I can also do that.

 

[COLGeek]

How many wired and wireless, total, devices are attached to this network? Are the PCs in question connecting directly to the router, or to intermediate switches in the house?

If not connected directly to the router, have you moved a PC (or used a temporary cable) to connect directly to the router to test for differences in performance?

 

[ymi04060513]

How many wired and wireless, total, devices are attached to this network? Are the PCs in question connecting directly to the router, or to intermediate switches in the house?

If not connected directly to the router, have you moved a PC (or used a temporary cable) to connect directly to the router to test for differences in performance?

I have not tried directly connecting to the router, we have a bunch of google nests, and for the PCs that use ethernet, mine, my brothers, my mothers, etc, we have our lines running to those nests, and then from those nests are ethernet'd to the PCs.

Last night I was having difficulties connecting to the wifi, but things like my firestick, and tablet, have been okay, so I really am not too sure.

At this point, is it worth a call to the ISP to have them see if the lines messed up?

https://ibb.co/p3NFFGd

I let the test run during these lag outs and they look pretty similar, both sent=889, received=876, and lost=13, the minimums (0 and 3), avg(33 and 47), and maximums (3369 and 3883) both seem to be close enough, I have no idea what this means though.

 

[COLGeek]

Honestly, your internal network sounds "complex" by normal home network standards. I defer to @bill001g 's vast knowledge, but I suspect your "complex" network is contributing to your performance issues.

 

[ymi04060513]

Honestly, your internal network sounds "complex" by normal home network standards. I defer to @bill001g 's vast knowledge, but I suspect your "complex" network is contributing to your performance issues.

What can I do to see if its the complexity causing fault? This was something that me and my dad were talking about before, because we have so many ethernets, and alexas, and phillips hue lights, and light strips, cameras, thermostat, etc.

 

[COLGeek]

Do all of those devices share the same IP space, or does some of the "smart" stuff occupy their own network segment?

What is the make/model of your main router?

 

[ymi04060513]

Do all of those devices share the same IP space, or does some of the "smart" stuff occupy their own network segment?

What is the make/model of your main router?

Our main router i believe is just a google nest hub, if this sounds wrong it probably is, but in that case i can send you an image of my internet shelf and we can work it out together, but i know thats the only rhing we have thats not given to us by the internet company, so that makes the most sense.

The way my father told me about our internet is that we have 2 systems in the same house, that we have 1 part of ethernets and the other part of wifi. In general, the ethernet has been the issue and the wifi has seemed to be okay for the most part, but i would imagine that all of our smart devices are on our wirless Wi-Fi network.

 

[COLGeek]

Just look at the label and get the info to whatever device is connected to your cable modem or ONT.

Do you have admin access to your router?

 

[ymi04060513]

Just look at the label and get the info to whatever device is connected to your cable modem or ONT.

Do you have admin access to your router?

https://ibb.co/18nG9v4

I dont have admin access to my router, im pretty sure my father does, but trying to log in with the stuff on the back of the router is only for setting everything up, and i dont want to unplug, then log in and mess up the network. Ive looked online, and everywhere tells me to go the the google home app, but i cant log into anything from there.